Another liberal disconnect

[Hawkmoon]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-pence-booed-hamilton-broadway-show/

The cast (or a member of the cast) of Hamilton decided that it was a good idea to call out VP-elect Pence at a performance. That's bad enough.

What gets me is the revelation that the producers advertised that ONLY non-whites were allowed to audition for the show. Aside from being illegal, as well as actively promoting a skewed view of history, it's also decidedly hypocritical. The producers are defending their decision, but what do we think might be the result if someone were to produce a play about the Reverend Martin Luther King ... and decree that only whites could audition for the role of MLK?

In the past, there have been protests against white people playing Native Americans. A movie version of Tony Hillerman's Navajo mystery Dark Wind was scrapped because the role of Jim Chee (a Navajo tribal cop) was to be played by a white. The old Charlie Chan movies could not be made today using a white American to play the Chinese detective. So why is it not only okay but even somehow "good" to cast a black man in the role of an obviously white historical figure?

I have a suspicion [trigger alert: conspiracy theory] that the underlying intent is to confuse people. I can't avoid thinking that there's a movement to rewrite history so that future generations will forget that the vast majority of the founders of the United States were white Europeans. [See discussion about Columbus Day http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=53276.0 ]

[230RN]

Dunno for sure, but there's probably an exception "for theatrical purposes," like there is for Tannerite.

[Ben]

Saw that over the last couple of days. A couple of observations:

1) The cast seems to know little of Hamilton, who was a big proponent of the electoral college, and was not exactly pro free for all immigration.

2) Pence's response was absolutely first class.

[RoadKingLarry]

Dunno for sure, but there's probably an exception "for theatrical purposes," like there is for Tannerite.

Two things that don't get nearly enough time in close proximity.

[freakazoid]

Looks like there are white people in the play?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

What's so funny for me? Is some nouveau negro from Gaithersburg who went to St Albans role playing activist.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Hawkmoon]

Looks like there are white people in the play?

Casting oversight.

Hamilton is played by a Latino.

Aaron Burr is played by a black man.

Does this image look at all like anything you've seen in paintings from the late 18th century depicting the founders of the country?



http://www.thewrap.com/hamilton-producer-defends-controversial-casting-call-non-white-actors-essential-to-the-storytelling/

http://geekycooldad.com/2016/11/broadway-union-takes-issue-with-hamilton-casting-call-for-non-white-performers/

[Perd Hapley]

I have a suspicion [trigger alert: conspiracy theory] that the underlying intent is to confuse people. I can't avoid thinking that there's a movement to rewrite history so that future generations will forget that the vast majority of the founders of the United States were white Europeans.

Actually, they were all white men of European descent, unless your definition of "founders" is broader than most.

If they're trying to make people think the founders were brown guys, then staging a play on Broadway, and charging hundreds of dollars per ticket, is not going to work very well. 99.9% of us will never see it, and I'm betting most Americans have still never even heard of this play, no matter how wildly popular it may be among the jet set. I suspect the memory of the white Hamilton will be amply preserved by our currency. If I recall correctly, Hamilton was accused of having non-white ancestry in his own day, and he seems to have survived that.

In any case, the creator of the play has explained why he casts it the way he does. If you give him the benefit of the doubt, and relax your suspicion a bit, you can see how it might work for some people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_(musical)#Integrated_casting

Miranda said that the portrayal of Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and other Caucasian historical figures by black and Hispanic actors should not require any substantial suspension of disbelief by audience members. "Our cast looks like America looks now, and that's certainly intentional", he said. "It's a way of pulling you into the story and allowing you to leave whatever cultural baggage you have about the founding fathers at the door."[95] He noted "We're telling the story of old, dead white men but we're using actors of color, and that makes the story more immediate and more accessible to a contemporary audience."[96]

"Hamilton is a story about America, and the most beautiful thing about it is...it's told by such a diverse cast with a such diverse styles of music," says Renee Elise Goldberry, the actress who plays Angelica Schuyler. "We have the opportunity to reclaim a history that some of us don't necessarily think is our own."[97] The creator insists that all of the Founding Fathers be played by people of color, i.e. non-white, and is open to women playing as the Founding Fathers.[98]

It is, ostensibly, for people that have such racial hang-ups, they can't even get over the terrifying whiteness of the Founders. For decades, the coastals have been hating the Founders for not being good, rainbow-flag-waving coastals. I'd much rather they attempt to relate to the Founders, by seeing or performing in this play, than just go on hating them.

[HankB]

"Our cast looks like America looks now, and that's certainly intentional", he said. "It's a way of pulling you into the story and allowing you to leave whatever cultural baggage you have about the founding fathers at the door."

So I suppose if they make another movie about WWII, we'll have a Moslem Hitler, a Hispanic Hirohito, a black Mussolini, an Oriental FDR, and a female Churchill . . .

Only Vidkun Quisling will be portrayed by a token white guy.

 

[Hawkmoon]

Miranda said that the portrayal of Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and other Caucasian historical figures by black and Hispanic actors should not require any substantial suspension of disbelief by audience members. "Our cast looks like America looks now, and that's certainly intentional", he said. "It's a way of pulling you into the story and allowing you to leave whatever cultural baggage you have about the founding fathers at the door."[95] He noted "We're telling the story of old, dead white men but we're using actors of color, and that makes the story more immediate and more accessible to a contemporary audience."[96]

"Cultural baggage about the founding fathers"? What a bunch of bullshit. To reiterate ... if someone were to do a play about Martin Luther King and insist on casting a white guy as MLK and a Latina as his wife, the blacks would be up in arms.

The story of a bunch of dead white guys is a story about a bunch of dead WHITE guys, not a bunch of blacks and Latinos. I don't care how he chooses to try to rationalize it, I still think they're trying to rewrite history.

It is, ostensibly, for people that have such racial hang-ups, they can't even get over the terrifying whiteness of the Founders. For decades, the coastals have been hating the Founders for not being good, rainbow-flag-waving coastals. I'd much rather they attempt to relate to the Founders, by seeing or performing in this play, than just go on hating them.

But they aren't attempting to relate to them. They're attempting to conceal -- or at least obfuscate -- who and what the Founders were. You can't "relate" to someone if they have to change what that someone is before you can "relate" to him.

[DittoHead]

I'm most confused about what Pence was doing there in the first place.

[SteveS]

I'm most confused about what Pence was doing there in the first place.

He, or his family, wanted to see the most popular broadway show. Just guessing here.

Pence handled it brilliantly, by not making a big deal about it. Trump, IMO, didn't handle it all that well, unless he intended to give this show a lot of publicity.

As for the legality of a non-white casting call, my understanding is that it is legal to specify a certain appearance or background. Typically, it is phrased differently than this one.

[DittoHead]

He, or his family, wanted to see the most popular broadway show. Just guessing here.

I'll admit that I haven't seen the show myself, don't intend to, and don't know much about it other than it's supposedly a hit.  From what I'm reading here though the show seems to aggressively promote an agenda (gay/racist/revisionist?) that I wouldn't expect Pence to support.

[KD5NRH]

It is, ostensibly, for people that have such racial hang-ups, they can't even get over the terrifying whiteness of the Founders.

Well, then let's get started casting a remake of Blazing Saddles...

[White Horseradish]

So I suppose if they make another movie about WWII, we'll have a Moslem Hitler, a Hispanic Hirohito, a black Mussolini, an Oriental FDR, and a female Churchill . . .

Only Vidkun Quisling will be portrayed by a token white guy.

 

Well, this Hitler exists:



Also, this Marshal Mannerheim. That Mannerheim of the Finnish wars.

[Hawkmoon]

Well, then let's get started casting a remake of Blazing Saddles...

Using a white man to play Black Bart (the sheriff)? And a Latino to play the Waco Kid? And Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner as Lily von Schtupp?

[roo_ster]

He, or his family, wanted to see the most popular broadway show. Just guessing here.

Pence handled it brilliantly, by not making a big deal about it. Trump, IMO, didn't handle it all that well, unless he intended to give this show a lot of publicity.

As for the legality of a non-white casting call, my understanding is that it is legal to specify a certain appearance or background. Typically, it is phrased differently than this one.

Trump handled it just fine.  The left needs to be attacked as they attack others: up close and personally, to include "protesting" in the manner the left has been given to protesting.  Trolling the pinko-fag cast and lefty audience by using their own language against them, as Trump did, is the very mildest of retorts in kind that needs to occur.

"Hamilton" has been a rage amongst the coastal weenies for months and Trump slapping the poofters about is not going to make it any more money or publicity than it already has.  It is the reason why Andrew Jackson was chosen for replacement with a duh-verse bint.  The US Treasury was first going to replace Hamilton, but after his perversion into a Puerto Rican with a contemporary leftist agenda in "Hamilton," the hue and cry went up to save the Wonderfully Diverse Founder of Color.  Thus, Jackson was served up on the altar of the Great God Duh-Versity.

[KD5NRH]

Using a white man to play Black Bart (the sheriff)? And a Latino to play the Waco Kid? And Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner as Lily von Schtupp?

I'm thinking a bunch of Samoan Klansmen, too.

[DittoHead]

The left needs to be attacked as they attack others: up close and personally, to include "protesting" in the manner the left has been given to protesting.

People do seem to be fighting back:
the performance was suspended after a man stood up and said, "Our side won! Our side won! F*** anyone who didn't vote for Trump, you don't belong here!"

[Perd Hapley]

"Hamilton" has been a rage amongst the coastal weenies for months and Trump slapping the poofters about is not going to make it any more money or publicity than it already has. 

This.

"Cultural baggage about the founding fathers"? What a bunch of bullshit. To reiterate ... if someone were to do a play about Martin Luther King and insist on casting a white guy as MLK and a Latina as his wife, the blacks would be up in arms.

The Left-wing PC Patrol would be up in arms, yes. They don't care about "cultural appropriation," when it happens to white people. They're dumb like that. This play, especially with all the attention it's getting, is a great example to point to, when they complain about "appropriation." But it works better if you guys don't choose to be offended by it. Let that be the Left's game.

The story of a bunch of dead white guys is a story about a bunch of dead WHITE guys, not a bunch of blacks and Latinos. I don't care how he chooses to try to rationalize it, I still think they're trying to rewrite history.

But they aren't attempting to relate to them. They're attempting to conceal -- or at least obfuscate -- who and what the Founders were. You can't "relate" to someone if they have to change what that someone is before you can "relate" to him.

I submit that you're giving race quite a bit of weight here. I'm not saying the race of a historical character is meaningless, but it doesn't make or break them. A brown Hamilton will be a less accurate Hamilton, but that doesn't mean they lose Hamilton completely.

I would also suggest that no one's concealing or even meaningfully obfuscating anything. I don't think anyone's confused about the Founders' actual skin colors. No one thinks the actual Hamilton looked like the people on stage. As I already pointed out, the amount of people seeing this play is statistically insignificant. Ticket prices, from what I hear, range from the mid-hundreds to the low thousands. And the stage is not exactly our national pastime. Compare this play's tiny audience to the millions of people that see a portrait of a white (okay, a dull green) Hamilton in their wallets.

To reiterate another point, this play is a great example of Left-wing racial bias. Let's be glad they're doing this, because it gives us something to point to, and say, "See, you Leftists are so obsessed with race, you have to put the Founders in black-face, before you even care about them."

[KD5NRH]

The Left-wing PC Patrol would be up in arms, yes. They don't care about "cultural appropriation," when it happens to white people.

Or straight people.  (Has Neil Patrick Harris ever played a gay character?)

[RevDisk]

I saw Tragedy of Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare where the guy playing Caesar was black. He did an excellent job, which was the most important thing to me. I despise people who despise cultural appropriation.

Of my own genetic and cultural heritages, I'm very happy when folks want to celebrate or borrow aspects of it. It's polite when it's done respectfully, but I'd never be furious at anyone for celebrating Oktoberfest or using Italian pasta styles in non-traditional dishes. I am obviously no fan of Hamilton, and part of my cultural heritage is pride in my geographic ancestors trying to kill him by armed insurrection. I am only ashamed that they were too drunk to move quickly and the cowardly snake like cheat escaped to New Jersey.

That said, so what if they pick someone in a play that doesn't match Hamilton's looks. So long as they stay true to his character. I'll skip my rant at the NATURE of that character, but also admit he did have character.

Or straight people.  (Has Neil Patrick Harris ever played a gay character?)

He played a straight Neil Patrick Harris playing a gay Neil Patrick Harris. Does that count?

[Perd Hapley]

I saw Tragedy of Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare where the guy playing Caesar was black.

Yup. Lots of that going around.

[KD5NRH]

That said, so what if they pick someone in a play that doesn't match Hamilton's looks. So long as they stay true to his character. I'll skip my rant at the NATURE of that character, but also admit he did have character.

So, Cate Blanchett as Thomas Jefferson in a remake of that series, then.

[Hutch]

Also, this Marshal Mannerheim. That Mannerheim of the Finnish wars.

For reasons I can't articulate, this guy terrifies me.  If encountered him, I would have a complete, PSH meltdown. <shiver>