Author Topic: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?  (Read 5681 times)

brimic

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2007, 08:58:02 AM »
TF-
Art is only collecting what the government 'promised' to pay him. Its not his fault. The rub lies in the fact that in about 30 years, government will no longer be able to keep its 'promises' without significantly increasing payroll taxes, or breaking its contract with those who have payed in all of their lives.

I still have a good 30 years of work ahead of me before I can even consider retiring. If I could forfeit everything I've paid in so far to take myself off the SS rolls, I would in a heartbeat, as would millions of other productive people in this country- but that would only cause the system to collapse sooner rather than later. I hope to live long enough myself to see SS collapse.
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brimic

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2007, 09:00:46 AM »
Quote
I don't understand why free money never is.
SW- you have some good one-liners, but that one is definately signature material grin
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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Ben

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2007, 09:06:42 AM »
Quote
If you had a shred of character, you wouldn't collect it, and you wouldn't smear it in our faces with a smarmy "thanks, guys!" I hope that you choke on your bread bought with stolen coin.

So you're suggesting that he just forget about all the money he paid into it? I don't like the fact that I have to pay into it either, but if I'm not going to be allowed to invest that money on my own, you can damn well bet that when I turn 62 I'm going to start taking out to recover at least some of what I contributed. It's my damn money.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

mountainclmbr

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2007, 09:12:32 AM »
I have thought SS was lousy for most of my adult life. This year was the first year that I actually plugged my contributions into an investment program, starting back in 1974, to see what I could have done with my own money if the Socialists had left me alone. I never felt that SS would survive without a "means test" and I didn't want to live at the government-approved poverty level so I started investing in 401K, private investments, IRA  (when you could do both 401k and IRA) from the time I graduated from the University of Florida (Go Gators!). I now also invest in Roth IRAs as well. I realized that SS was a really bad concept about the same time I realized my college professors were glassy-eyed idealists that were completely out of touch with the real world. I would place that in my second year of college back in 1978.
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cosine

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2007, 09:46:42 AM »
I am not looking forward to the day when I have to start paying into Socialist Insecurity.  angry
Andy

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2007, 05:03:44 PM »
I collect Railroad Retirement as opposed to Social Security.  My contribution was about $31,000. I have no idea what my employer contributed - the rate runs from .65% to 12%.  My monthly benefit exhausted my contribution in less than a year. I retired in 1999, so I find it difficult to believe that my employer's contribution hasn't already been exhausted.  It's not inconceivable that I will draw a million dollars more than was ever credited to my account. It will be interesting to see just how this works out in an industry with a shrinking employee base.
Don

Brian Williams

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2007, 05:19:51 PM »
tis a Great idea, my brother checked his and found that .gov had swapped our SS numbers way back and his had all my earnings and my had all his earnings.  Originally SS/.gov want us to accept thier swap and we would have had to go to each and every empolyer and have them change their records of our SS numbers.  Luckily my brother had his original SS card and it had the number he had been using for his whole career, not the one SS admin had in the computer.  Eventually the SS Admin gave in and they changed their records and my brother and I did not have to, it would have been a real mess.
Brian
<><
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Monkeyleg

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2007, 08:25:11 PM »
My father (now almost 90 years old) got into the SS (nice initials, aren't they? Complain, and some guys with black hats and skull insignia show up at your door) back in 1933.

At that time, he was working for FDR's WPA, and paid maybe ten cents a week or even a month toward SS.

My dad was forced into retirement back in the very early 1970's, according to General Motors rules.

He continued to work for a few more years as a consultant, until the tax on his SS "benefits" were more than the income he brought in.

He's now been collecting the full amount from SS for over thirty years. And he's only paid a few hundred, or perhaps just a few thousand, into the fund since 1933.

Meanwhile, I've been paying $1000 a month or more for my "contribution" for years. Everytime I make more money, the system raises the FICA ceiling. Everytime I've made more money, they took more.

The government has been taking 20% or more of my earnings for federal withholding, the state has been taking about 6%, and the SS system has been taking 12.5%.

Sure makes it hard to save your own money for your own retirement.

For those of you who are in your 30's or early 40's: your generations and mine are going to go to war. I don't mean that antagonistically. It's just a fact.

The Baby Boom generation (God, how I hate that term) will dwarf the current AARP movement. The number of stumbling, drooling fools like me will hit record numbers.

Do you really think that I'm going to give up the money that was stolen from me? Do you really think that I'm going to say, "yeah, I like cat food better than dog food?"

Two years ago, GW was doing his absolute best to sell the country on the idea of incrementally privatizing Social Security. It was a bold step on his part, and I tried to talk to the people I know about the idea.

I didn't talk to them in terms of what it would do for me, because his plan would have done nothing for me. Instead, I tried to talk to my friends and relatives about what this kind of new plan could mean for our nieces, nephews, and great-nieces and great-nephews. The children of my brothers, and the children of those children, could look forward to retirement with real money. Not the chicken-squat that .gov is going to "award" me.

I might as well have been talking to a rock.

For those of you in your 30's and 40's, start talking to your legislators now. You're going to have to concede that those of my generation get the "benefits" we've been assured. And you're going to have to pay for that.

Or, you can do nothing, and wait until you're 65.

This crisis is one of the most serious I can see in the distance. And nobody in government wants to touch it.

Better that you young people address the crisis now, rather than wait until you're being hit with a 25% SS tax, and no guarantee that you'll ever see your money.

Or, maybe, you'll just decide to take your legislators outside and shoot them. That would be fine with me.






Twycross

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2007, 09:00:20 PM »
Or, maybe, you'll just decide to take your legislators outside and shoot them. That would be fine with me.

Fine by me too. I've been paying for a couple years now, and I realize that being all of 19 years old:
1). I will wind up paying a lot more.
2). I will never, ever, see a single penny of it back.
3). There is nothing I can do about it, because people in general will always take the immediate carrot rather than avoid the future stick.

brimic

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2007, 09:24:02 PM »
Quote
This crisis is one of the most serious I can see in the distance. And nobody in government wants to touch it.

Better that you young people address the crisis now, rather than wait until you're being hit with a 25% SS tax, and no guarantee that you'll ever see your money.

The only good thing about SS is that currently there is still more money going into the system than being paid out. Medicare on the other hand is going to swallow us whole before SS becomes an unbearable burden.

The only good thing I can see comingis that the system will implode sooner than later- its inevitable. Combine skyrocketing medicare costs with rapidly climbing healthcare costs, I can easily see Medicare payroll taxes eclipsing, even doubling that of SS. There's going to be a magic limit somewhere along the way where either Atlas Shrugs or the streets of DC will be lined with heads on pikes. I can only hope to have the satisfaction of the latter happening if Teddy Kennedy is still alive at that point.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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brimic

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2007, 09:29:11 PM »
Quote
3). There is nothing I can do about it, because people in general will always take the immediate carrot rather than avoid the future stick.

Yep, and therein lies the reasoning for the democratic party to exist- people have a strong drive for instant self gratification and the democratic party the one to deliver it. The Republicans aren't the best either, but hearing about the Sugar Momma Pelosi wants to be in her first '100 hours' of office is a perfect example of what the democratic party stands for- taking money away fromthose who earned it and turning it over to those who have done nothing to earn it.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

Sindawe

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2007, 09:34:36 PM »
Quote
For those of you in your 30's and 40's, start talking to your legislators now. You're going to have to concede that those of my generation get the "benefits" we've been assured. And you're going to have to pay for that.

I've never had an issue with that fact.  16 some years ago I had the same sort of idea that Mr. Bush was pushing, privitization of SS, with the cut off point being some place a few years older than I was so that those who have less time to plan get some of the money back, us younger folks get to opt out entirely.  I still feel that way, and I've made plans for SS to NOT be there when I reach "retirement age".  Even if it IS there, I'll not take it since it would not be my money anyway but fund extracted from younger workers on the way up.

So make the cut off something like 45 y/o.  Younger, you're out of the system and its up to YOUR to make plans.  I'd be out all the funds I've had stolen from my paychecks over the years, but if the stealing stops I cool with the feds keeping that "trust" for the older folks.

Quote
Or, maybe, you'll just decide to take your legislators outside and shoot them. That would be fine with me.

Works for me as well.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

LAK

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2007, 12:43:12 AM »
mountainclmbr
Quote
My total contributions to SS and Medicare, including employers matching, is $216,000.00. If I were able to invest and get the returns I have gotten on my 401K, this amount would be worth close to $2M today. My monthly SS benefit, in 15 years when I could first collect, would not even make my house payment even if income taxes were not taken out. Does anyone except me think this is a lousy system?

It's called racketeering, and just one of the ongoing criminal enterprizes in this country under the color of law.

And you just can not trust people that steal from you.

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Art Eatman

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2007, 03:26:40 AM »
TargetFarget, what can you do about a fouled-up system but joke about it?  Could it possibly occur to you that the money I stuck into the system from 1962 onward went into somebody else's pocket, before--under the rules--I started getting some of my own back?  Why do you think I called it a Ponzi scheme?  Or is "Ponzi" beyond your comprehension? 

I didn't crdeate the system.  I didn't make the rules.  I just learn the rules of life and use them for my own benefit.  I don't think that's terminal stupidity, not by one iota.

I dropped out of the system of organized working in 1979.  Made my hobbies my fulltime business:  Coin and gun show tables, and car repair.  Buy, sell and trade; anything of value.  Me, socialistic?  I'd say, more entrepreneurial capitalist...

And my check is about half of what a helluva lot of folks get.  I'm just amused by it all because I PLANNED on not having any debt.  I PLANNED on having a low-overhead world.

I don't tell folks what to do or how to do.  All I do is point out that if you work smart as well as hard, you can pretty much have what you want, do what you want.  If I can do it, why can't anybody else?

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280plus

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2007, 03:32:06 AM »
Quote
I'm just amused by it all because I PLANNED on not having any debt.  I PLANNED on having a low-overhead world.
I'm right there with you Art.  cool
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Ben

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2007, 04:34:57 AM »
Quote
I PLANNED on not having any debt.  I PLANNED on having a low-overhead world.

Exactly what I've done too. Except for once in a while when I'm buying invetment real estate to turn over, I carry zero debt. My retirement plans are all based on my personal investments -- SS does not figure into them at all. But if SS is still around when I'm 62? You can damn well bet I'll be trying to get back as much of my money that the program stole from me as I can.

I haven't been really pleased with some of the directions Bush has taken on several big issues the past couple of years, but his attempt to let me be responsible for my own retirement was something I truly thank him for. The fact that such a great percentage of the population was against that plan showed me just how far socialist ideas have progressed in our country.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

mountainclmbr

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2007, 06:27:13 AM »
I am also planning for a low-overhead life in retirement and not counting on SS. I worry that 401k and IRA accounts could be targeted by new taxes to bail out SS for those who did not save. Right now my wife's entire income and the discretionary part of my income either goes into paying down the mortgage or into investments. When people are doom and gloom about the stock market (down cycles) is when I am buying new stocks. When the market is way up I pay down the mortgage. The mortgage should be paid off by the time I reach 55 in 8 years or so. For the 401k and other investments I worry about the impact of the looming Government War on Business (GWOB) and the new taxes from the CO2 pollution tax meter that will be attached to my nose..
Just say no to Obama, Osama and Chelsea's mama.

tokugawa

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2007, 06:36:14 AM »
And there is always plan #6-- has always "worked" before, to fool folks into thinking they are getting thier due- INFLATION!!  "Well, honey, we be getting our checks regular but they just don't buy much anymore- must be them DAMN CORPORATIONS raising prices".
 Inflation- the most insidious tax.

InfidelSerf

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2007, 07:28:44 AM »
Hey TargetFarget before you go attacking one of our most esteemed members.
I suggest you completely alter your own lifestyle to reflect a completely autonomous life void of the gubermint ponzi schemes.

So I'll ask again.
There isn't a soul on here who can't admit we are being fleeced from every angle.
Income Tax
Property Tax
Estate Taxes
Sales Tax
City Taxes
County Taxes
State Sales Taxes
State Income Taxes
911 emergency Tax
You name it.. there is a tax attached.

When do we all say enough is enough?

Or do we just continue as sheeple, bend over and take it up the ...??

I feel just as helpless as the rest of you. But I am motivated to make a change.

If we all complain but never unite to eliminate the tyranny.  Then we deserve what we get.

I'm willing to give it all up.. the nice house, the cable tv, the regal lifestyle even the poorest of Americans enjoy.
If it would mean a chance to overthrow the elite that enslave us with tons unintended consequenses.

*hmmm what's that thumping sound I hear outside?*
The hour is fast approaching,on which the Honor&Success of this army,and the safety of our bleeding Country depend.Remember~Soldiers,that you are Freemen,fighting for the blessings of Liberty-that slavery will be your portion,and that of your posterity,if you do not acquit yourselves like men.GW8/76

mdhunter

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2007, 06:59:30 PM »
WOW!  Hi Guys, had only popped over a couple of times while on THR, but had to join and chime in on this one.

Saw 2-3 posts from what sounded like very young adults, criticizing the older generation as if Social Security was THEIR idea.

I have a couple of suggestions for you:

1) If you don't like it, start raising a fuss with all of your friends, and come up with a better solution, and then go sell it to your legislators (HINT: I believe the majority of young voters went democrat, so maybe you better work on your own age group before flaming your elders)

2) Don't trust someone else to fund your retirement - start saving EARLY and stop buying so much consumer trash, and stop running up needless credit debt, and you can retire in relative comfort wiithout counting on Social Security.

I know I'm making a few assumptions, but you did too, so just trying to play under your rules on this one.

Michael

Monkeyleg

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2007, 07:22:26 PM »
Michael, no matter how good the intentions, sometimes things just go badly.

Back in 2, I was forced to sell my business and give whatever money I raised to my creditors. I could have filed for bankruptcy, but I just didn't like the idea of stiffing people to whom I owed money.

Anyway, the equipment I sold went for dimes on the dollar. So, I needed to cash in all of my retirement savings to pay the creditors.

Stuff happens, as the popular phrase goes.

Here's what really sticks in my craw, though: somewhere around 1992, I started buying whole life insurance policies from probably the best-known life insurance company around. By the time I'd bought $500,000 worth of life insurance, my premiums were about $450 a month.

All during that time, I was paying $971.84 in FICA and co-FICA. Every month.

If I hadn't been forced to surrender the cash value of the whole life policies in 2, the annuity portions alone would have paid me $1600 a month when I turn 65. Plus, I would have still had life insurance.

And that was only after paying $450 or so a month for eight or so years.

I've been paying SS for all these years, and I won't even get $1600 a month when I turn 65.

This insurance company ("The Quiet Company") is very conservative in their investing, and in their returns.

Yet, in just eight years of paying to them half of what I was paying to SS, they were going to give me more at age 65 than the SS system will for what I've paid in for my entire life.

If ever there was an argument for the privatization of Social Security, there's a prime example.




mdhunter

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2007, 07:29:31 PM »
Monkeyleg, I totally agree with you.

I may not have stated myself very clearly - I was tossing out points to what I presumed (bad idea, I know guys and gals) were fairly young workers just getting into their career.  At the consulting company I just left I heard too many complaints of "not having enough money to live in this area" and "debt management is just a part of personal finance now."  I tried to convince them that they COULD easily afford to live in our area, if they stopped buying every new gadget that someone told them they should but, and quit running up more debt than anyone should.

I apologize to all for generalizing, and my comments certainly didn't fit for your situation Monkeyleg.  I'm sorry to hear of your predicament.

Michael

Monkeyleg

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2007, 08:27:43 PM »
Michael, no need to apologize. My predicament is my own fault. I should have foreseen the changes in my industry, and adapted before my situation got to the point it did.

Your advice to your young co-workers is spot-on. Save what you can, and do so as early as you can.

My wife and I have always lived very modest lifestyles. We were approved in 1992 for a $300,000+ mortgage. Instead, we bought an $85,000 fixer-upper. I've never laid down "the law" with regard to money, except that one time. I said that we would not spend more than $100,000 on a house.

I'm glad I made that demand. And, now, so is my wife.

Life has its unexpected twists and turns: medical problems, job problems, business problems.

"Be prepared," as the old Boy Scout motto goes.

I lay out a lot of personal stuff on APS because I'm not ashamed of it.

But I can just hear some people saying, "well, if he had to liquidate his retirement savings back in 2, what would have happened to anything he'd had in a privatized SS account?"

The answer is that I had enough in personal retirement savings to pay off my creditors, avoid bankruptcy, and still be able to say today that I never stiffed anybody.

As for our congress? They've been stiffing me and you every day for decades by taking our FICA and co-FICA payments and using them for all sorts of pork-barrel projects.

SS is supposed to remain solvent until 2035. I'll likely be dead by then.

But you younger folks can help head off that insolvency now. Start by being politically active. Demand hard answers from the candidates.

Demand that they stop raiding SS funds for general revenues.

Demand that the money that is taken from your paycheck be pegged to you. I so often hear, "oh, that social security money isn't yours, it's the government's."

Bullfeathers! They took it from you, and it's yours!

Here's how screwed up the system is. When I received my first SS report when I turned fifty, I noticed something unusual: they showed me as having no income for the years 1983 and 1985.

Those two years were very good years for me, ones in which I hit the FICA ceiling.

So, I called the SS office. (I'm going to continue to use the term "SS" until it becomes synonymous with the Nazi SS).

"Hello. I just received my SS report, and there's two years of income missing."

"Well," the SS Unterscharführer replied, "all you need to do is send us your W-2 forms for those years, and we'll make the adjustments."

"Miss, that was over 15 years ago. I don't have my W-2's"

"In that case," said SS Unterscharführer, "you'll need to contact the IRS and get copies of your tax returns and W-2's for those years. We don't keep those records."

OK, off to the IRS. And the Unterscharführer at the IRS told me that they don't keep tax returns longer than seven years.

"Perhaps you might contact your former employer," the Unterscharführer suggested.

"He's been out of business for over ten years," I said.

"Well, then, it seems like you're just out of luck."

It was their mistake, their (for Art's Grammaw's sake, I won't insert the word I want to use here), but I have to take the loss?

But I wasn't through with Herr Unterscharführer yet.

"Ok, so you don't keep tax returns for longer than seven years? How is it that you're able to nail gangsters for tax evasion decades after the fact?"

There was a silence on the other end of the line.

"OK, pal," I said. "This is your job, and I'm not going to ream you for it."

Instead, I called my congressman and senators, and asked that they resolve the problem.

Five years and counting.

And somebody who's faking a disablility, or who's in the US illegally, is getting the money I paid in for those two years.

Maybe it's time to lock and load.

Lee Lapin

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2007, 03:05:56 AM »
Art,

You're most welcome.  Hope you keep drawing it till the checks don't cash any more.

Oh yeah, i look at every one they send me.  And don't believe I will ever see a dime of it.

I opted out of SS in the early 1980s when i went to work for Uncle Scam as an uncivil serpent.  At that time they were just rolling out a new retirement program for federal employees which made them a part of the SS system.  The old retirement system was not a part of SS and was independent from it.  I opted for the old system and quit paying into SS.  I knew then it wasn't likely I'd ever get back the $$$ I had already put in, so after paying in for 30 quarters before going to work for the Feds I said bye-bye.  I'll never draw SS, I never planned to.  Anyone wants to say "thanks" for that free 30 quarters I donated to the biggest Ponzi scheme of the era, you're welcome.

You expect the fedgov to keep ANY promise it has made?  Then I have some beachfront property in nebraska for sale cheap.  You still believe in Sandy Claws too?  The Tooth Fairy?  Time to grow up and smell the coffee.  Politics is the art of lying, the bigger the lie the better it goes over.  Best get used to the idea, things aren't due for a change until the lies can no longer be hidden.  But you'll notice when that happens, I promise you...

lpl/nc

Lee

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Re: Anyone looked at your Social Security statement?
« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2007, 04:37:16 AM »
One fact that is always left out of the doom and gloom scenerios, is that the Boomers will be accessing
at least a trillion dollars in retirement funds in the next deacde or two, none of which has been taxed yet.   THAT is the money that will fund every whim of the government down the road.  And those are the funds that the young and not- so -young voters should hold the Feds accountable for - Right Freakin Now.