Author Topic: Vegas strip mass shooting!  (Read 64606 times)

slingshot

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #250 on: October 05, 2017, 11:53:41 AM »
The ammo comments by the News people are just the standard anti-gun comments.  Many people can shoot up 1000 center fire rounds in a couple range sessions.  I'm not one of them, because I couldn't afford such a habit and have little interest in that kind of thing anyway.

I can't see any kind of legislation passing with "ammo limits" or limits to the amount you can store.  If the anti-gun folks try to include to many of their feel good additions to a bump fire restriction, I don't think the bill will pass.  I would make the bump fire and similar devices a Class III item if they intend to do anything.

Added:  Here is a tasty news tidbit on automatic weapons found during a traffic stop.  Not related to Las Vegas, but folks may find it interesting here.  http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/breakingnews/story/2017/oct/04/sheriff-arrest-mguns-made-all-difference/452753/
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 12:06:14 PM by slingshot »
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #251 on: October 05, 2017, 12:15:09 PM »
I like this idea. While any more restrictions is still a loss, I think the bump stocks are gonna go no matter what at this point. Might as well get something in exchange.

Don't bet on getting *expletive deleted*it in exchange.  Expect any pending pro legislation to go away and a big fight coming for banning evil bump stocks and probably some other features. 
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #252 on: October 05, 2017, 12:18:45 PM »
I'm glad I'm not the only who noticed the sudden invention of "automatic rounds."

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21978/fake-news-cbs-makes-bogus-term-describe-ammo-used-ryan-saavedra
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TommyGunn

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #253 on: October 05, 2017, 12:30:29 PM »
Too much doesn't add up.

If you look at the floor plan of his Vista suite and the exterior view, it looks like he went into the next room to break out another window. Why leave the suite when there are 3 windows in the suite he could have broken?

Multiple witnesses said there were multiple shooters, and there were several videos of what looks like muzzle flash on about floor 7-10? Some have been removed by youtube already. Officer says it was probably someone playing with a strobe light. riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. [tinfoil]

Some of the gunfire in the videos sounded like it could be a bumpfire, but some of it was also too consistent to be bumpfire. Nobody can keep it going that steady for that long. Especially an older guy that his family says 'didn't like guns'

I see neat stacks of loaded Surefire magazines in the pics, and lots of guns haphazard around the suite. Where is the spent brass and empty mags? 10 minutes at that rate of fire in the same general direction would produce a mountain of it.

Room service receipt looked like an order for two people. Maybe the other person was the woman ejected from the concert earlier for screaming 'you're all going to die'?

Who went in and out of that room? Where is the hall footage from the hotel security cams? You know it exists.

Like it or not, ISIS has been reliable when they claimed they were involved.

I'm not going full blown conspiracy theory, but this doesn't pass the smell test. The media and authorities aren't telling the whole story.


Is there something about bumpstocks that makes a AR- 15  so  uncontrollable a 64  year old  couldn't accomplish what Paddock did?    I'm 62  and firing centerfire rifles doesn't particularly stress me.   However I have no experience with bumpstocks,  I've always thought they were  a stupid novelty useful only for wasting ammo.
This guy had four days at the hotel to prepare.  Is there some reason a moderately healthy, but not infirm, 64  year old couldn't get ready to do this I don't know about?
I know some authorities are now speculating he did have an accomplice.  Maybe.   I dunno.

I guess what I'm getting at is that a 64 year old man is not  necessarily  a decrepit weakling.....
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BobR

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #254 on: October 05, 2017, 01:33:56 PM »
The people I have seen with bump stocks vary wildly. Some are very good with them because they have practiced while others are dismal, can't hit a thing and keep jamming their weapon. If he had practiced at all it would be very easy for him to do what he did. I have seen people bump their semi guns from the hip by just hooking their thumb in a belt loop and be pretty proficient at it. They should be thanking their lucky stars he didn't have any API rounds (afaik) for his AR10 that was reported as being there. That would have been the round for the fuel storage tanks.

bob

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #255 on: October 05, 2017, 02:23:42 PM »
I'm glad I'm not the only who noticed the sudden invention of "automatic rounds."

http://www.dailywire.com/news/21978/fake-news-cbs-makes-bogus-term-describe-ammo-used-ryan-saavedra

Is it all that sudden?  .45 ACP, .45 GAP  We all know what the A stands for.  I think the MSM just found out and is trying to leverage it.
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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #256 on: October 05, 2017, 03:22:05 PM »
When out doing predator control (coyotes and feral hogs) it's pretty common to take a 100-150 yard snap shot but that's with a 100 yd zero, good optics, and a rifle I'm intimately familiar with. Beyond that, no dice. Holdover and general conditional variations make anything beyond about 200 yds a no-go zone.


A friend in Pennsylvania periodically goes groundhog hunting. He doesn't think it's sporting at less than 500 yards -- but his varmint rifle is a .243 with about a 20x scope on it. Definitely not a patrol rifle (which is usually not a rifle but a carbine, anyway).
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T.O.M.

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #258 on: October 05, 2017, 04:01:05 PM »
The NRA caves on bump stocks:  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nra-statement-urging-new-regulations-bump-stocks-article-1.3543623


Well, that was quick.  What's the angle?  Improved PR image for a device that not many people use anyways?
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #259 on: October 05, 2017, 04:03:45 PM »
Don't bet on getting *expletive deleted*it in exchange.  Expect any pending pro legislation to go away and a big fight coming for banning evil bump stocks and probably some other features

This is what worries me. Bump stocks are stupid as all get out, but I really don't want the libtards looking to close at some of the other clever little accessories people have come up with to not break NFA.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #260 on: October 05, 2017, 04:06:16 PM »
Well, that was quick.  What's the angle?  Improved PR image for a device that not many people use anyways?

Not a very smart move. I have a feeling that the majority of their membership may think bump stocks are as stupid as all get out, but still would fight to keep them legal.
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MechAg94

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #261 on: October 05, 2017, 04:24:08 PM »
I don't understand the questions about the ability to shoot 1000 rounds either.  If they are loaded in mags and you have more than one rifle to shoot them, it isn't physically impossible.  My Dad and I fired off 10 or 12 mags with a slide fire stock.  It wasn't difficult to do it.  It was a little difficult to keep it firing while keeping it under control.  That was a few years ago and I haven't used that stock since. 

However, I don't want them caving on it.  IMO, any effort to cave is just caving to the media.  If they didn't cave after the school shooting a few years back, why cave in for this.  The ONLY moderately acceptable reason to do it would be to get other things in return.  I would still be afraid they would outlaw belt loops with stupid language. 
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KD5NRH

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #262 on: October 05, 2017, 04:26:56 PM »
A friend in Pennsylvania periodically goes groundhog hunting. He doesn't think it's sporting at less than 500 yards -- but his varmint rifle is a .243 with about a 20x scope on it. Definitely not a patrol rifle (which is usually not a rifle but a carbine, anyway).

But does the contract under which Satan holds his soul actually have terms preventing cops from learning to do the same, or is it possible your friend just can't recite the plot of every episode of Game of Thrones and every HS/college/pro football game played during the times he "ain't got time to practice?"

And, unless there was reason to believe the guy had duct taped pregnant nuns to every inch of the room except where he was shooting out of, then the safe target area isn't human torso sized, it's roughly 8' high and (guessing by the room map) 50+ feet wide.  Yes, you need better than that to kill him, but just keeping him distracted would save lives.  Even Whitman resorted to shooting through the scuppers once there was meaningful return fire.  No telling how many people didn't get shot because they weren't on the limited field of fire that offered him. The Vegas shooter wouldn't have had any real cover to get behind.

dogmush

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #263 on: October 05, 2017, 04:27:57 PM »
Just wait until the media discovers binary triggers.....

Angel Eyes

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #264 on: October 05, 2017, 04:37:36 PM »
Just wait until the media discovers binary triggers.....

SSSHHHHH!!
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AJ Dual

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #265 on: October 05, 2017, 04:41:58 PM »
The NRA wants to trade bumpstocks for Nat. Recip. CCW. That's where this is heading.

And Nat. Recip. has been a much higher legislative priority for the NRA than the HPA has ever been. They want it to override all the no-issue and may-issue states that are de-facto no-issue right now, and scare the hell out of them. Not a terrible strategy since I think the CCW fight that's been going on state by state since the 80's has done a lot for the pro-gun side in the minds of the unwashed middle ground. When the anti's have all the "blood in the streets" predictions, and then... nothing ever happens, it normalizes guns further and makes the anti's look like the fearmongers they are.

And also, it's politically astute, because for the first time, a gun control "compromise" will be an actual compromise.  For far too long "Compromise" has been that the Anti's want it all, but will settle for only taking some. (figuring they'll come back for it later) A false definition. The true definition of compromise is where both sides either get something they want, or both agree to give up something they want, that the other does not want them to have.

Such a precedent could go a long way to preventing the legislative anti-gun ratchet effect.

Honestly, I'm "meh" on the whole thing. I don't care a whit about bumpstocks. They're shoddy Tapcof'ery gimmicks for the most part. (I know there's some newer ones that look/feel better, but still...) And I feel guilty for that, because I know I shouldn't care/not care over a firearm category just because I myself don't enjoy it. That's trampling on Fudd territory. However, it is what it is. I have to be honest about my feelings.

The other reason I'm "meh" on this is that with Nat. Recip. I fear it'll be a paper tiger, like the FOPA traveler protections. NYC and NJ has been happy to arrest and confine travelers who were simply unfortunate to change planes in LaGuardia or Newark etc. with an otherwise legally checked handgun that had already gone through the TSA once.  If FOPA's traveler protections can't be used as a "get outta jail card" within 24 hours... it's worthless IMO. Even with a "win" on Nat. Recip., I'm sure it'll take DECADES of court fights to force all the no-issue states and areas into issuing. Call it what it is, not "real" Nat. Recip., just a bill that will eventually give us standing in court. And with the wins in D.C. and Chicago lately, And Trump packing the Fed. Judiciary, and all the aging die-offs being skewed to the left on the SCOTUS, I think that's a fight we'll eventually win even without a Federal Nat. Recip. bill.

What we SHOULD be "trading" bumpfire stocks away for, is for them to become NFA regulated machine guns. So they have the extra paperwork, the extra background check, the huge waiting period, and the $200 tax. That's some pretty stringent "gun control" ain't it?  If you say so the right way, it makes it hard for Democrats to oppose such strict regulation... Of course, to facilitate this, we'd have to do away with the Hughes Amendment and the '86 machine gun freeze.  :angel:

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Chester32141

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #266 on: October 05, 2017, 04:46:13 PM »
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/vegas-killer-stephen-paddock-bought-33-guns-one-year-600-rifle-purchased-way-vegas-missing/

Quote
Mass killer Stephen Paddock bought a high-powered hunting rifle just hours before he arrived in Las Vegas on his mission of death, DailyMail.com can reveal.
But bizarrely the rifle wasn’t one of the 23 weapon haul found by police in his sniper’s nest hotel suite.
Paddock paid $600 for a Ruger American .308 bolt-action rifle with an 18-inch barrel and four round capacity from Guns & Guitars in his hometown of Mesquite.
He then calmly drove 80 miles to check in at the Mandalay Bay hotel on the Vegas Strip from where he rained bullets down on the Route 91 Harvest music festival killing 59 people and injuring a further 537.
A gunsmith at the store revealed Paddock was ‘calm and normal’ when he bought the weapon at around 3pm on September 28.

He bought it in his home town so maybe he took it home ... kind of odd to buy it when he had to know he probably wouldn't get to shoot it ...
 
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #268 on: October 05, 2017, 04:50:43 PM »
AJ, they're not going to be able to play any of those games if they lose their base, which is pretty pissed at them right now.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #269 on: October 05, 2017, 04:53:24 PM »
The speculation is that the .308 was to set off Tannerite at some secondary target.  I think his plan was to escape the Mandalay Bay as "just another evacuating hotel guest" get into his car, and drive away for some more attacks.  With his international travel, and money, he may even have had an escape plan. Even if it was really just a psychological prop to get himself to commit the attack in the first place.

If he was a pilot, and had always been somewhat of a gunnie, I wonder if he knew he couldn't set off the Aviation fuel tanks he shot at inside the airport fence past the concert, because it's essentially kerosene. But perhaps he thought if the tanks were leaking from bullet holes, and he set off a pile of Tannerite next to it, it would detonate the whole tank, or split it and cause a large fire.

Or he just planed another location to go out in a blaze of glory with as many victims as he could. However the Security guard who got shot squashed that, forced the standoff, and he had to go through with his backup suicide option.

AJ, they're not going to be able to play any of those games if they lose their base, which is pretty pissed at them right now.

I agree. The timing is idiocy.  =|

The NRA should have talked with Ryan and whoever in Congress behind the scenes, and then come out in favor of banning bump stocks, once it was clear what gun owners would be getting in exchange and the bill was being voted on.

I think the NRA made a calculation of political capital, and decided with majorities in the House and Senate, and Trump in the White House, they could afford to piss off their base a bit. However, they're miscalculating how pissed that base is going to be, and they're also falling for the trap that the anti-RKBA/MSM side is setting for them. Because they always accuse the NRA of "being silent" whenever there's a mass shooting. So they're trying to get out ahead in the news cycle by advocating throwing bumpstocks under the bus, but that's stupid, because however "smart" that decision seems tactically, it's really just letting your enemies define the game and it's playing field in the first place.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #270 on: October 05, 2017, 06:03:02 PM »
Is it all that sudden?  .45 ACP, .45 GAP  We all know what the A stands for.  I think the MSM just found out and is trying to leverage it.


Yes, it was that sudden. The two rounds you mention aren't what CBS was talking about.

Follow-up question: Did "ACP" originally describe the weapon, or the cartridge? My 1911 shoots .45 Auto.  :P
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Perd Hapley

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Scout26

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #272 on: October 05, 2017, 07:15:46 PM »
The big news here in Chicago is that Whacky McNutjob* booked a room in the Blackstone Hotel, overlooking Grant Park during Lalapolooza.  For those not familiar it is a large music festival with younger, probably more left leaning, crowd then a country music festival.  However, he never checked in.

My guess and just spitballing here.  Whacky McNutjob* just wanted to get the high score.  And like every other loser that does crap like this, as soon as he met some resistance, he offed himself.  



*= As I've had to remind some people (not here), that Crazy=/=Stupid.  He obviously had a (half-assed) plan.  
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 09:59:12 PM by Amy Schumer »
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MikeB

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #273 on: October 05, 2017, 07:19:46 PM »
I think we should require that Bump Stocks be part of the NFA. To do that we have to repeal the Hughes part of the FOPA so they can be added to the registry. Let’s not publicize what else can be added then.  =)

I’ll loose a hundred grand or so in NFA investments; but I’ll trade that for new NFA toys.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Vegas strip mass shooting!
« Reply #274 on: October 05, 2017, 07:22:09 PM »
Does anyone know if there's some evidence he may have targeted Lollapalooza, other than the room location and timing? Or is that enough? Is Lollapalooza Chicago that big, that no one would get one of those rooms by coincidence?
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