More "I'm from the Government, I'm here to help" at work

[Hawkmoon]

Woman in North Carolina rescues animals from the hurricane. State arrests her.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article218785765.html

Way to go, North Carolina.

[Fly320s]

Counterpoint:  she was harming the animals in her attempt to help.

Hedges was charged with 12 counts of misdemeanor “practice/attempt veterinary medicine without a license” and one count of “solicitation of a Schedule 4 controlled substance,” according to

[230RN]

"No good deed goes unpunished."

I'd like to know what those "serious concerns" were, and what the Schedule IV controlled substance was that she "solicited."

I mean, were the critters lying around with their guts hanging out?   Or was she just trying to bind wounds or something?

And an awful lot of vet's supplies and medications can be obtained by just plain old farmers at most farm & ranch supply places. (Or at least they used to be.  I know we used to give our own shots to dogs 'n cats 'n horses.* At least in the 1970s and in Colorado.)

Given the emergency circumstances, I suspect something must have been really wrong for Officialdom to act so ummm.... "officially," unless it was just a matter of "I see it, so I have to cite you and arrest you and let the Court sort it out so I don't get tagged for some kind of liability by the animal owners later on because we're in such a litigious friggin' society and some folks don't appreciate good deeds and just want to sue, sue, sue."

Terry, 230RN

* Not rabies, of course.  That had to be done by a DVM.

[Ben]

I believe the drug in question is Tramadol, often given to dogs for arthritis or similar. While I might see the State's point under normal circumstances, this seems to be a case of "the law is an ass". This might have been a case where if they wanted to enforce the law, they might have done so as a warning under extenuating circumstances.

I guess a question would be, if they are going after her for animal abuse, what are they doing about the people who ran and left their animals behind?

[T.O.M.]

As the usual defender of law enforcement and the justice system, I'm really at a loss here.  Unless she was actually causing more harm than good, and I find that hard to imagine, I can't understand why this wasn't handled as a warning, or if they were really bent out of shape by what she was doing, why not issue a summons and cite her into court.  The arrest seems over the top.

That said, in my experience in the system, dog wardens and animal cruelty officers often act in this manner, acting like their cases should be top priority for the system and taking things to the extreme.  I recall one officer who asked for "no knock" arrest warrants for a group of teens who were shooting dogs with paintball guns in their neighborhood.  He also showed up in the prosecutor's office dressed in full tactical kit, complete with vest, shotgun, flashbangs, etc.  He was sorely disappointed when he couldn't find a single prosecutor willing to do more than take the case in for review.

[Ben]

That said, in my experience in the system, dog wardens and animal cruelty officers often act in this manner, acting like their cases should be top priority for the system and taking things to the extreme.  I recall one officer who asked for "no knock" arrest warrants for a group of teens who were shooting dogs with paintball guns in their neighborhood.  He also showed up in the prosecutor's office dressed in full tactical kit, complete with vest, shotgun, flashbangs, etc.  He was sorely disappointed when he couldn't find a single prosecutor willing to do more than take the case in for review.

Interesting perspective. I used to see the same thing when I attended maritime law enforcement meetings. We'd be talking about doing some patrol, you'd have Navy, NCIS, USCG, Federal cops, among others at the meeting, and the people making demands for mission priority were always the EPA cops who wanted to cite ships for air and water pollution. Same at oil spill planning meetings. EPA always wanted to be in charge, even when the USCG was supposed to be. It's some kind of inferiority complex or something.

[Scout26]

IIRC, she was arrested for applying topical antibiotics to several dogs and cats.  Antibiotics you can buy over the counter at the dollar store, and for asking for a donation of Tramadol for an older dog who she rescued, but didn't have meds for.

And yes, this is a textbook example of the law, and the people charged with enforcing it, being an ass.

Here it is:

Tammie has been released on an unsecured bond of $10k. She is charged with the following: 1 count of administering amoxicillin to Big Momma, 1 count of administering Tramadol to Big Momma, 3 counts of administering amoxicillin to a white Siamese cat, 3 counts of administering a topical antibiotic ointment (triple antibiotic from Dollar Tree) to a white Siamese cat, 3 counts of administering amoxicillin to a cat known as Sweet Pea, 1 count of administering amoxicillin to an unnamed black kitten, and 1 count of solicitation to commit a crime (asking for donation of Tramadol (that was suppose to be a request for a vet)).

[MillCreek]

I would have thought that Animal Control would have been busy enough saving puppies, kittens and acting upon actual incidents of neglect and abuse of animals.

[Scout26]

I would have thought that Animal Control would have been busy enough saving puppies, kittens and acting upon actual incidents of neglect and abuse of animals.

 


Their job is criminalize Good Samaritans, and punish people for being kind hearted.   Not to actually rescue animals....

 

[lee n. field]

That said, in my experience in the system, dog wardens and animal cruelty officers often act in this manner, acting like their cases should be top priority for the system and taking things to the extreme. 

This is all the importance and authority they will ever have.

[HankB]

This sort of reminds me of Obama's Coast Guard chasing off people of the so-called "Cajun Navy" who were helping people during the massive flooding of hurricane's aftermath because they didn't have rescue permits or some such . . . 

[Hawkmoon]

Counterpoint:  she was harming the animals in her attempt to help.

I understand that she was dispensing controlled medications without a license. Where did it say she was harming the animals by so doing?

There have been cases of people stranded in the arctic or antarctic who have performed emergency surgery because it was needed and there was no way to get the patient out or a doctor in. Should that person then be prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license? This was a hurricane, it was a state of emergency. I fail to see a problem.

[Fly320s]

I understand that she was dispensing controlled medications without a license. Where did it say she was harming the animals by so doing?

There have been cases of people stranded in the arctic or antarctic who have performed emergency surgery because it was needed and there was no way to get the patient out or a doctor in. Should that person then be prosecuted for practicing medicine without a license? This was a hurricane, it was a state of emergency. I fail to see a problem.

It is all about the immediacy of the needed attention.  In your example, there was an imminent probability of death so emergency surgery, even by a non-doctor, seems reasonable and prudent.  We don't know anything about what the lady in the article was doing, other than "trying to help."  Maybe those animals needed immediate medical aid to survive, or maybe the lady was going too far.  We might find out in the future.

In either case, I find it hard to believe that a regular cop would arrest the lady just because she didn't have a license.  There has to be a better reason than that.

[RocketMan]

There have been rumors, and I emphasize they are rumors, that the Tramadol was not necessarily for the animals.
I certainly hope that is untrue.

[Jamisjockey]

North Carolina: The New Jersey of the South.
I'm just glad nobody arrested the Baptists that were driving through my dad's neighborhood handing out warm box lunches when we were packing his entire life into a uhaul truck and throwing his furniture and appliances into a pile on the curb.

[dm1333]

This sort of reminds me of Obama's Coast Guard chasing off people of the so-called "Cajun Navy" who were helping people during the massive flooding of hurricane's aftermath because they didn't have rescue permits or some such . . . 

You have a cite for this?  Rescue permits?  Never heard of any such bullshit in over 28 years of active duty.  Obama's Coast Guard, really?  So what SAR experience do you have, especially flood relief work? 

[Perd Hapley]

You have a cite for this?  Rescue permits?  Never heard of any such bullshit in over 28 years of active duty.  Obama's Coast Guard, really?  So what SAR experience do you have, especially flood relief work? 

That escalated quickly.

[dm1333]

At least nobody stabbed a man in the heart!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh7tgX_Uaqs

[HankB]

You have a cite for this?  Rescue permits?  Never heard of any such bullshit in over 28 years of active duty.  Obama's Coast Guard, really? 

TV news story said it was CG, this link only says "authorities" were blocking the Cajun Navy off and authorities were considering additional regulations for rescuers.

So what SAR experience do you have, especially flood relief work?

Since no claim of SAR experience was made, be careful - you're approaching ignoratio elenchi by tossing in that remark. 

[Jamisjockey]

Hey look Dm1333 you're full of *expletive deleted*it. The Obama coast guard obviously stopped the Cajun navy from rescuing 10,000 people in Katrina:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/remembering-the-cajun-navy-10-years-after-hurricane-katrina/

[Hawkmoon]

Gen. Russel Honore was put in charge of the federal response during Katrina.

This Louisiana native and three-star general saw to it that the priority of his men and women was search and rescue.

"We had 20,000 federal troops," Honore said. "We had 20 ships and over 225 helicopters."

Honore credits the Cajun Navy for doing much of the initial lifesaving.

"In reality most people are saved by neighbors and volunteers after a disaster than are saved by organized rescue people," Honore said.

Kathleen Blanco was Louisiana's governor when Katrina hit. This past week, she thanked the rescuers.

"We never had enough help, and when you came in, you just made all the difference in the world," Blanco said. "The Cajun Navy rescuers are true heroes. Louisiana people saved Louisiana people."

You don't need SAR "experience" to give somebody a boat ride in a flood. It's all about people helping people, and exercising a little initiative. A number of years ago a hurricane dropped a number of rather large trees across the street my mother lived on. It's not a major thorougfare, so it wasn't high on the priority list for either state of town public works crews to open up that road. My brother and I got in with our chain saws and started cutting our way out from Mom's house. A few other residents on the street did the same. By the time the public works crew got around to Mom's street, it was passable. All they had to do was some clean-up.

None of the neighbors who spoke to my brother and me while we were working asked if we had arborist experience, or a license to work as a tree surgeon ...

[Jamisjockey]

TV news story said it was CG, this link only says "authorities" were blocking the Cajun Navy off and authorities were considering additional regulations for rescuers.

Those TV news stories are always accurate! I rescind my previous sarcasm.

[dm1333]

TV news story said it was CG, this link only says "authorities" were blocking the Cajun Navy off and authorities were considering additional regulations for rescuers.
Since no claim of SAR experience was made, be careful - you're approaching ignoratio elenchi by tossing in that remark. 

Yeah, so about that comment about "Obamas Coast Guard" since you aren't able to back it up are you going to retract that statement?  Asking for SAR experience is very relevant.  Among other things it would help you understand why some people want to slow down the Cajun Navy. 

[dm1333]

You don't need SAR "experience" to give somebody a boat ride in a flood. It's all about people helping people, and exercising a little initiative. A number of years ago a hurricane dropped a number of rather large trees across the street my mother lived on. It's not a major thorougfare, so it wasn't high on the priority list for either state of town public works crews to open up that road. My brother and I got in with our chain saws and started cutting our way out from Mom's house. A few other residents on the street did the same. By the time the public works crew got around to Mom's street, it was passable. All they had to do was some clean-up.

None of the neighbors who spoke to my brother and me while we were working asked if we had arborist experience, or a license to work as a tree surgeon ...

There is more to this than giving somebody a boat ride in a flood.  When untrained people rush into a SAR case mayhem can be the result.  Like a civilian in a plane rushing to help a search for PIW's, not deconflicting the airspace that two CG helos were in and almost colliding with one of them.  But hey, my eyeballs must have been faulty.

And of course the CG has nooooooooo history of asking for help getting people to safety when the *expletive deleted*it hits the fan!

https://news.usni.org/2014/07/23/coast-guard-led-9-11-water-evacuation-bigger-dunkirk

[BlueStarLizzard]

I have to reserve judgement on if this woman was doing right or doing wrong.

I've been dealing with WAY too much bullshit because of animal rescue zealots who have gone very very far past what is even remotely acceptable in terms of ethics.

She could have been doing a good thing and legitimately rescuing animals. She could have been pulling some really stupid *expletive deleted*it. It really could go both ways.