F-22s left in the path of the Hurricane?

[makattak]

http://airforcemag.com/Features/Pages/2018/October%202018/USAF-Still-Assessing-Hurricane-Impact-at-Tyndall-But-Leaders-Say-F-22-Damage-Less-Than-We-Feared.aspx

So, the Air Force is saying they may not be all that badly damaged.

And, reading the article, they say that they only had 48 hours to get all the F-22s out.

...

That's insane that our Air Force cannot, within 48 hours, get all their aircraft out of any base. Isn't logistics what the military is supposed to do?

IF they weren't flightworthy, I can understand it would be more difficult, but if the plane can fly, fly them out, bring the pilots back and fly the other ones out. (Also, the Air Force doesn't have enough pilots for all their F-22s?)

How was this not a major concern for EVERYONE in the military hierarchy?

[MillCreek]

I had read in other media that the flight-worthy aircraft had been flown out, and the aircraft remaining at the base could not be flown out.

[dogmush]

The ones left behind weren't airworthy.

Base command already addressed this on the news around here.

[BobR]

Unless there is a lot of political clout in that part of Florida I can see them closing down Tyndall AFB. Why spend the money to rebuild when there are probably bases already shut down that could be reopened. The argument you will hear is it will cost as much or more to do that so the .gov will pour billions into rebuilding Tyndall.

As far as the planes left behind, what I have heard is they were not flyable mainly due to parts missing that had been cannibalized to keep other planes flying (a common occurrence in military aviation). The figure I am hearing now is that 10% of the F22 inventory was destroyed or damaged by the hurricane because they were left behind to ride out the storm I am not so sure leaving them in the hangar was the best idea, those things always fall down in big storms. They could have left them on the ramp with a 24 point tie down and they may have fared better. We would do that with our P3s we couldn't fly away from hurricanes.

bob

[MillCreek]

^^^That is really interesting, Bob, on the concept of the outside tie-down as opposed to the hanger.  On the one hand, if an empty hanger collapses, no big deal. On the other hand, I wonder how much damage is done by wind-borne debris to a plane tied down outside.

[RocketMan]

^^^That is really interesting, Bob, on the concept of the outside tie-down as opposed to the hanger.  On the one hand, if an empty hanger collapses, no big deal. On the other hand, I wonder how much damage is done by wind-borne debris to a plane tied down outside.

I think that is what complicates the decision on whether to hanger or tie down smaller aircraft outside.  It would be hard to predict how much debris might get blown across an airfield in a storm like that.  If they had revetments, then personally I would have leaned toward an outside tie down inside a revetment.  But revetments are not usually found on CONUS airbases.

[BobR]

^^^That is really interesting, Bob, on the concept of the outside tie-down as opposed to the hanger.  On the one hand, if an empty hanger collapses, no big deal. On the other hand, I wonder how much damage is done by wind-borne debris to a plane tied down outside.

It's one of those 6 of one/half dozen of the other type of things. No matter what you do you are going to get screwed. I would think dings made by blowing debris may be a less expensive repair rather than having a hanger drop on your plane. We (the US) had some P3s undergoing overhaul by the Japanese in Atsugi japan when they had a big snow and the hanger roof collapsed, I think we ended up writing off 3 planes from that one.

bob

[French G.]

If you have weeks to plan, you might move all your birds. I have been around hurricane dodging with ships, helos, and jets, it always sucks.

[BobR]

If you have weeks to plan, you might move all your birds. I have been around hurricane dodging with ships, helps, and jets, it always sucks.

That is a very good point, usually you have 5-7 days because you know the hurricane is coming but this guy was a fast mover, it seemed like from coming out of the south to hitting land was only about 3-4 days or so.

I have done typhoon/hurricane fly aways, emergency sorties with a carrier to get out to sea to ride out the storm and then just stuck behind with planes to ride the storms out. As prepared as you think you are it is never good enough.

bob

[Hawkmoon]

I know a guy whose daughter is a USAF officer and who is was stationed at Tyndall. She has confirmed to him that the base is essentially and effectively 100 percent destroyed. Personnel have been told NOT to come back until further notice. I mentioned to him that it's stupid to put a major Air Force base on a barrier island, and that I thought we should bulldoze Tyndall and restore it to barrier island ecology, and relocate the Tyndall personnel and functions to a base farther inland.

His response? "Never happen."

One big issue is that Tyndall is a superfund site. The USAF has been obfuscating and concealing the extent of the environmental issues at Tyndall for decades. I kinda/sorta expect that having a storm of this magnitude rip through probably disturbed a whole bunch of environmental nasties that probably shouldn't have been disturbed.

[MillCreek]

After Homestead AFB got ruined by Hurricane Andrew, they turned it into a reserve base.

[MillCreek]

On a somewhat related note, I have read stories and seen pictures in my risk management journals of what happens to a general aviation airport when a big windstorm goes through.  Apparently, having just two tie-downs from the wings to the ground is not enough.  The wind gets the airplane essentially airborne and it flips over or comes crashing down on the side.  The insurance adjusters pretty much write the airframe off.

[Tim L]

Been looking, but can't find a quotable reference.   Before hurricane Andrew hit south Florida in 1992  Weeks air museum moved as many aircraft as possible into the museum hangar.  Those that wouldn't fit were flown to the Homestead air force base and housed in a hangar.  The B-17 and Ford tri-motor were tied down outside.  The museum hangar collapsed.  The B17 broke free and flew BACKWARDS about 3 miles.

[French G.]

It is kinda odd that a strategic asset like the F-22 wouldn't have some hardened revetments to hide in. I know we're not at war, but if your air dominance for the next twenty years is tied up in an expensive aircraft of limited numbers, maybe protect it? I was only leaving behind 20 year old F-18s or 40 year old H-3s. In the case of 148100, hangar queen and rob bird eternal, a hangar collapse would have been a kindness.

[Scout26]

After Homestead AFB got ruined by Hurricane Andrew, they turned it into a reserve base.

That was 1992, when we were rapidly downsizing the military.  I don't know if Homestead AFB was on the BRAC list but once it got leveled, it didn't make any sense to spend a boatload of money to rebuild it.  The USAF just decided to close it and move whatever they had planned on keeping there to somewhere else instead.