Random attack in Seattle leaves two dead

[MillCreek]

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/one-detained-after-shooting-reported-in-north-seattle/

A completely random attack leaves two dead and several injured.  The part that really caught my attention was the gunman just walked up to two different cars and shot the driver.  I am not necessarily carrying at all times in a vehicle, and although I have a truck gun, it is secured in a lockbox and takes me at least 30 seconds to access. I wonder even if I had a firearm in my lap, could I have timely recognized and responded to the threat were I in one of those two cars.  In the big city, stopped at a traffic light, there are pedestrians all over the place walking adjacent to the cars.

[Perd Hapley]

Yeah, pretty tough to defend against something that quick and that unexpected.

[WLJ]

Noticed they have this emphasized

Holding the gun in both hands

Are they trying to imply how he was holding the gun means something?

[230RN]

Obviously the two-handed hold is a killing method as trained by Trump's NRA-certified gun instructors and the Russians.  It's a deplorable situation.

[WLJ]

Obviously the two-handed hold is a killer's tactic as trained by Trump's NRA.

Yep, you're right

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2018/4/26/handgun-basics-how-to-grip-a-pistol/

[Perd Hapley]

Noticed they have this emphasizedAre they trying to imply how he was holding the gun means something?

The journo probably doesn't know whether it means anything. A witness said it, so he includes it.

[MechAg94]

It occurs to me that I have not practiced drawing my concealed handgun while sitting in my truck with a seatbelt on.  Might be something to work on.

[MillCreek]

^^^Which raises the question: does anyone here use a unique holster or carry position while in a vehicle?  Such as a crossdraw or carrying at 10 o'clock?  I do not: 90%+ of the time when I carry, it is IWB at 4 to 6 o'clock, and I am now thinking about this.

[Perd Hapley]

^^^Which raises the question: does anyone here use a unique holster or carry position while in a vehicle?  Such as a crossdraw or carrying at 10 o'clock?  I do not: 90%+ of the time when I carry, it is IWB at 4 to 6 o'clock, and I am now thinking about this.

I've thought about it, and the only thing that makes sense is to have a gun specifically for vehicle carry. The downside there is that it's going to be in the vehicle at all times, unless you want to schlep it between the house and the car every day, and probably forget to bring it from time to time.

The other option is to switch the same gun from on-body to vehicle carry each time you get in and out of the car. That seems evem more problematic as the first option.

On the other hand, a shoulder holster would allow you to draw, whether in the vehicle or not.

All in all, I have tried drawing from IWB (strongside, hip) in the car, and I found it really was not all that difficult.

[Ben]

I've thought about it, and the only thing that makes sense is to have a gun specifically for vehicle carry.

Or a holster specifically for vehicle carry. I forget who (Blackhawk?) makes or made some modular system that let you secure a female component to various parts of your vehicle interior, then snap a holster with the male component onto that. So for example, on the console, on the door, under the steering wheel. 

I think about this stuff sometimes too, and as a lefty, I'm at around 8:00-8:30 on the holster, so I have the driver's side door to contend with as well. For me, I often take the pistol out and place it in the door cubby if it's going to be a long drive. I don't do it for short trips though, and that's probably where the highest probability of this stuff happening is.

[MechAg94]

I think Alien Gear made a combo holster like that. 

[MillCreek]

On the Toyota TacomaWorld forum that I frequent, lots of posts and pictures of people using various holster systems (usually Kydex) to attach to various parts of the truck interior.  Popular locations seem to be down by the driver's right footwell, under the steering wheel and inside the console.

[Perd Hapley]

Or a holster specifically for vehicle carry.

Too many problems with that. Too easy to forget to switch holsters, and it raises your chances of having an ND. Plus, you have the problem of people (potentially) seeing you strap up just before entering Wal-Mart. That's what happened to this guy:

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2015/01/22/he-tackled-a-man-he-saw-walking-into-walmart-with-a-gun-under-his-coat-but-there-was-one-big-problem

[230RN]

Smith Airweight J-frame.

If no passengers (the 99.9% usual) I park it on the seat next to me, in an upside-down baseball cap so it's less likely to slide off in a hard stop.  If it's a really hard stop, I have other problems besides the gun sliding onto the floor.

The hat stays in the car, basically its only function in life, and I jokingly call it my car holster.

Now, this is Colorado in 2019, where a gun on a car seat is not a problem.  WTF it will be like in five years is another problem, with the State recently turning Commie.  When I get to my destination, I have no problem pocketing it while standing by my open car door, since the gun can be "palmed" easily and doesn't look like anything in particular.

In the unlikely situation where I will have a passenger, I'll  just keep it in my pocket and put up with the possibility of a sneak attack.

[AZRedhawk44]

Here's a pretty strong benefit for being right handed.  As a southpaw, I'm pretty screwed if I need to draw and defend myself from an attacker at the driver's door.

If no passengers (the 99.9% usual) I park it on the seat next to me, in an upside-down baseball cap so it's less likely to slide off in a hard stop.  If it's a really hard stop, I have other problems besides the gun sliding onto the floor.

I think John Ross strongly hinted/hypothesized that this was one of several cardinal sins of the FBI agents in that 1986 gunfight, in his book Unintended Consequences.

[brimic]

^^^Which raises the question: does anyone here use a unique holster or carry position while in a vehicle?  Such as a crossdraw or carrying at 10 o'clock?  I do not: 90%+ of the time when I carry, it is IWB at 4 to 6 o'clock, and I am now thinking about this.

Appendix carry.

[230RN]

...

I think John Ross strongly hinted/hypothesized that this ("car seat carry") was one of several cardinal sins of the FBI agents in that 1986 gunfight, in his book Unintended Consequences.

 

I ain't an FBI agent and G-d forbid I'm ever in a real gunfight, that gun will not be on the car seat.  

Terry

REF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Just prior to ramming the Monte Carlo, Manauzzi had pulled out his service revolver and placed it on the seat in anticipation of a shootout,[8] but the force of the collision flung open his door and sent his weapon flying.

[Hawkmoon]

I've thought about it, and the only thing that makes sense is to have a gun specifically for vehicle carry. The downside there is that it's going to be in the vehicle at all times, unless you want to schlep it between the house and the car every day, and probably forget to bring it from time to time.

The other option is to switch the same gun from on-body to vehicle carry each time you get in and out of the car. That seems evem more problematic as the first option.

On the other hand, a shoulder holster would allow you to draw, whether in the vehicle or not.

All in all, I have tried drawing from IWB (strongside, hip) in the car, and I found it really was not all that difficult.

I've considered mounting a second holster in the car, and just switching the gun from my belt scabbard to the vehicle holster when driving. My idea is to use an inexpensive nylon holster such as you can buy at Walmart for an airsoft pistol, and mount it to the center console. I haven't yet figured out how to mount the holster to the console. I'm OCD enough that I don't want to drill any holes in the console or use any super sticky adhesives or tape that would mar or deface the console. I'm leaning toward attaching a short length of wood dowel to a wide strap so the dowel can be unserted into the console and the strap would extend out when the lid is closed. Velcro on the strap and holster would keep the holster in position between the seat and the console.

[MillCreek]

Here's a pretty strong benefit for being right handed.  As a southpaw, I'm pretty screwed if I need to draw and defend myself from an attacker at the driver's door.

I think John Ross strongly hinted/hypothesized that this was one of several cardinal sins of the FBI agents in that 1986 gunfight, in his book Unintended Consequences.

So I can learn something, what was the cardinal sin?  Did an agent place a handgun on the car seat and it slid off and was inaccessible?

[MillCreek]

Hawk, for a location between the seat and console, could you not just wedge it in there and it would stay in place?  Or do you have a big gap between seat and console?  On my Tacoma, I can barely get my hand into that gap.

[MechAg94]

So I can learn something, what was the cardinal sin?  Did an agent place a handgun on the car seat and it slid off and was inaccessible?

From what I remember hearing, an agent pulled his gun out and had sitting next to him at the ready.  However, when they finally made contact, the driver ran into the suspect's car.  The gun flew off the seat and that agent could not readily locate it.  

Paul Harrell has a video on it if you are interested.
https://youtu.be/iv8cByaVyNQ

[230RN]

Millcreek, see my earlier post, where I added a REF regarding that situation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Just prior to ramming the Monte Carlo, Manauzzi had pulled out his service revolver and placed it on the seat in anticipation of a shootout,[8] but the force of the collision flung open his door and sent his weapon flying. Hanlon lost his .357 Magnum service revolver during the initial collision, though he was still able to fight with his Smith & Wesson Model 36 backup weapon.

The postings are moving along faster than I can edit my posts, so  you might have missed that.


Terry

[BobR]

When I had my van I mounted a nylon Uncle Mike's holster to the side of the dog house and had my CZ52 in it as my van gun. Since selling the van I have not come up with a way to mount a gun in my F350 that is acceptable to me. I don't like leaving it holstered because I am also left handed and have to contend with the door if it is needed. A lot of times I just park it in the door pocket when driving.

bob

[French G.]

I typically move my pocket gun to the center console. But...

That's a secondary solution at best. Set your mirrors to monitor blind spots, be able to see the tires of the car in front of you, have an exit plan even if it means hitting other cars and maintain awareness.

[MechAg94]

http://aliengearholsters.com/cloak-dock-holster-mount.html

This is the car holster mount I remember seeing.  I think it was intended so you pull the holster off or detach it so you don't have to draw the gun.  I know my brother was looking at this, but I can't remember if he bought it.