Because you suck, and we hate you...

[Scout26]

It was a bold strategy Cotton, let's see how it's paying off:

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/irons/2019/06/12/heckler-koch-maker-of-the-marine-corps-m27-is-in-dire-straits/?utm_source=clavis

[Fly320s]

It was a bold strategy Cotton, let's see how it's paying off:

https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/gearscout/irons/2019/06/12/heckler-koch-maker-of-the-marine-corps-m27-is-in-dire-straits/?utm_source=clavis

Who would have guessed that relying on large government contracts as a business model is a bad idea?

[MechAg94]

I guess if I want to get a VP9, I need to do so.  I rented one yesterday and it shot very well.  Felt like a natural fit for me.  The guy running the range was carrying a VP9SK and let me handle it.  The grip on that was more similar to the HK 45. 

Odd now that I think about it:  The HK 45 full size has finger grooves on the grip.  The HK 45 compact does not.  The full size VP9 does not have finger grooves, but the subcompact VP9SK does have finger grooves. 

[MechAg94]

Who would have guessed that relying on large government contracts as a business model is a bad idea?

Seems to me that Colt tried that also, but they went further and stopped most of their commercial sales. 

H&K has enough quality products that they should be able to survive if they focused on the commercial business.   I guess the military side might be a really big part of their production capacity in comparison to commercial sales.

[brimic]

Seems to me that Colt tried that also, but they went further and stopped most of their commercial sales. 

H&K has enough quality products that they should be able to survive if they focused on the commercial business.   I guess the military side might be a really big part of their production capacity in comparison to commercial sales.

That's the first thing that came to my mind as well- HK is just the German version of Colt.

[MikeB]

Seems to me that Colt tried that also, but they went further and stopped most of their commercial sales. 

H&K has enough quality products that they should be able to survive if they focused on the commercial business.   I guess the military side might be a really big part of their production capacity in comparison to commercial sales.

The issue is they would have to change their whole attitude about the commercial side. They have alienated a lot of regular gun owners/potential buyers in the US. They could win them back. Ruger has, Colt to an extent. Don’t know if HK will be able to do the same though. I know I don’t even look at HK when shopping for something new personally, even if I see something that looks interesting once I see the HK logo I loose interest.

[MechAg94]

The issue is they would have to change their whole attitude about the commercial side. They have alienated a lot of regular gun owners/potential buyers in the US. They could win them back. Ruger has, Colt to an extent. Don’t know if HK will be able to do the same though. I know I don’t even look at HK when shopping for something new personally, even if I see something that looks interesting once I see the HK logo I loose interest.

When I see the HK logo, I assume it will be overpriced.  If it isn't overpriced from the factory, many gun shops will do it for them.  I recall being a bit surprised the VP9 was actually priced in the ball park of other striker fired polymer guns.  

I will admit with most of their military guns, US import restrictions mean you have to really want to sell in this market to import those types of firearm.

[MikeB]

When I see the HK logo, I assume it will be overpriced.  If it isn't overpriced from the factory, many gun shops will do it for them.  I recall being a bit surprised the VP9 was actually priced in the ball park of other striker fired polymer guns.  

I will admit with most of their military guns, US import restrictions mean you have to really want to sell in this market to import those types of firearm.

That’s the thing though. They have a US factory. They can get around that easily, but mostly just refused to make those guns for the US civilian market. Take for example FN. Often also overpriced in my opinion, but they make efforts to produce versions of their Military hardware for the civilian market. HK doesn’t bother. That’s part of where the whole you suck and we hate you meme comes from for HK.

[MechAg94]

That was what I was thinking about when I said they don't want to bad enough. 

Even CZ is getting into the act by building a new US facility in Arkansas.  I figured the import restrictions are why all the new Bren 2 rifles were sold as pistols.  I think that will change once they can say "made in the US". 

[brimic]

When I see the HK logo, I assume it will be overpriced.  

I always associate H&K with Hans Gruber.

[HankB]

When I see the HK logo, I assume it will be overpriced.  If it isn't overpriced from the factory, many gun shops will do it for them.  

Overpriced? Ya think?

Brownell's has been advertising "build your own HK416" for a while . . . used parts kits - less lower, bolt, and barrel - are currently on sale for around $2500. (They were disassembled from complete rifles and the seller says they show little to no use, but Brownell's is still selling them "as is.")

As for HK quality . . . the one pistol I remember seeing with a broken frame was an HK4, a multi-caliber contraption based on the Mauser HSc, but made out of stampings tack welded together.

[freakazoid]

That’s the thing though. They have a US factory. They can get around that easily, but mostly just refused to make those guns for the US civilian market. Take for example FN. Often also overpriced in my opinion, but they make efforts to produce versions of their Military hardware for the civilian market. HK doesn’t bother. That’s part of where the whole you suck and we hate you meme comes from for HK.

The German's have their own laws too that HK has to follow, https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/09/02/hk-hate-you-import-export-laws-vs-people/?fbclid=IwAR3rcr-Rg8ap3XAAb-DfF5jWx-MkeCORT1HZEozMxEPTfhFiMh30fpTWGVY

[MechAg94]

The German's have their own laws too that HK has to follow, https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/09/02/hk-hate-you-import-export-laws-vs-people/?fbclid=IwAR3rcr-Rg8ap3XAAb-DfF5jWx-MkeCORT1HZEozMxEPTfhFiMh30fpTWGVY

Thanks for posting that. 

I always figured the "you suck and we hate you" meme was mostly a joke.  Sounds like HK is getting screwed on both ends.

[MechAg94]

And all that said, I bought an HK 45 last month.  It is a good shooter and the price is pretty reasonable right now compared to what I was seeing a year or two ago.  I rented a VP9 at a local range this week and shot the bullseye out of the target.  I shot it a lot better than I expected.  Thinking about the VP9sk now.  We'll see.

[Pb]

I would like to say the HK did import a lot of Evil Black Rifles into the USA before Bush I and Clinton banned them.

[Devonai]

My buddy has a bona fide H&K 91.  You may argue that it's a better design than the M1A, but an extended range session with it is... painful.

I'm a fan of the USP series, which have been out long enough that used specimens are usually not expensive.

[BlueStarLizzard]

+ 1 on the VP9. It's the one I've been working with. I haven't put *that* much through it but it's been taking mix and match hollow points flawlessly. I think the only big complaint is the bunny ears on the back of the slide, which some people said caused issues with CC. Dad never had an issue with it and a lot of the complainers liked the pistol well enough to file off the bunny ears. They're supposed to make it easier to rack, but I don't really see the point as the grooves in the back of the slide give more than enough to grip and it's not a heavy slide anyway. Nice concept, but unnecessary, IMHO.

I was just trying to figure out how Walther doesn't seem to have these issues, but I see that they've gotten themselves under the S&W banner, which I guess solves some of the import issues on the American side, and they don't do rifles.

As much as I enjoy the joke and I do think the company has stepped in it more than once, if they go under it will be a sad day. Makes me almost wish I could afford some of their newer offerings, but too be honest, outside of the VP lineup, they don't really have anything I want. The SP5K is kind of cute, but not $2500 cute. Now, if they'd go back to their roller delayed rifles...

[BlueStarLizzard]

[HeroHog]

Hate on Hi-Point all you want. They are surprisingly accurate and reliable CHEAP guns!

Hi-Point Torture test videos:

Check out this series of videos where these guys set out to destroy one to show what piles of junk they were and found out that it was almost indestructible!

Hi-Point Pistols: The Ultimate Test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbvvurXmAmg

Hi-Point Pistols: The Ultimate Test RELOADED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmt5QB814Tw

Hi-Point Pistols: The Ultimate Test MAN VS HI POINT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FoWpog5KU4

So what happened to that Hi Point?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_HXtEvjlGg

Hi-Point Pistols The Ultimate Test Part 4: Judgement Day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKkQm5TRaWE

PLEASE watch all of them for a real eye opening experience that will astound you and while it probably won't make ya run out and buy one you WILL have to have a much better opinion of the guns if you are honest with yourself to ANY degree.

Here is another of a series I just ran across with a nice real world evaluation of one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Ch_IQg-io

And this one from Hickok45: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCNx0Ql2ZZw&ab_channel=hickok45

Even more:
How Tough is a Hi-Point? (CHEAPEST PISTOL) DemolitionRanch
https://youtu.be/wpZdUgBzh7Y

Mud Run!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqgdAZJvdYE&ab_channel=J.Dalton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azs2Kk4Hphk&ab_channel=StudentoftheGun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkq7WdB-0LA

The Hi-Point 1095 10mm Carbine Review and Mud Test: The Best Pistol Caliber Carbine (For the Moneey)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=083T0UmYmG0&ab_channel=TFBTV

PS: I have nothing to do with the videos or Hi-Point. I am just a guy who has sold (formal FFL), owned and shot several.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/8/21/hi-point-firearms-45-acp-pistol-carbine/

[Pb]

Hate on Hi-Point all you want. They are surprisingly accurate and reliable CHEAP guns!

I did shoot one hipoint.  It jammed repeatedly.  No thanks.

[MechAg94]

+ 1 on the VP9. It's the one I've been working with. I haven't put *that* much through it but it's been taking mix and match hollow points flawlessly. I think the only big complaint is the bunny ears on the back of the slide, which some people said caused issues with CC. Dad never had an issue with it and a lot of the complainers liked the pistol well enough to file off the bunny ears. They're supposed to make it easier to rack, but I don't really see the point as the grooves in the back of the slide give more than enough to grip and it's not a heavy slide anyway. Nice concept, but unnecessary, IMHO.

I was just trying to figure out how Walther doesn't seem to have these issues, but I see that they've gotten themselves under the S&W banner, which I guess solves some of the import issues on the American side, and they don't do rifles.

As much as I enjoy the joke and I do think the company has stepped in it more than once, if they go under it will be a sad day. Makes me almost wish I could afford some of their newer offerings, but too be honest, outside of the VP lineup, they don't really have anything I want. The SP5K is kind of cute, but not $2500 cute. Now, if they'd go back to their roller delayed rifles...

I think all the issues I have heard about were their rifles especially the military style rifles.  So I can certainly understand the import issues.  I think CZ is running into that with their Bren 2 rifles which is why the recent imports were all in a pistol configuration.  HK seems to import quite a few pistols which have always been available if not always inexpensive. 

I have noticed the HK 45 pricing is down in the $600 range when it was much higher a few years ago.  I wonder if that is them getting their manufacturing costs down or them realizing they need to sell more pistols. 

[Jocassee]

Just came here to point out that Spuhr makes an aftermarket stock for the G3/PTR etc that is supposed to be AMAZING.

[dogmush]

Just came here to point out that Spuhr makes an aftermarket stock for the G3/PTR etc that is supposed to be AMAZING.

I have a side folding CTR on my PTR.  It shoots pretty comfy.

[HankB]

. . . Makes me almost wish I could afford some of their newer offerings, but too be honest, outside of the VP lineup, they don't really have anything I want . . .

The only HK I really covet is the HKMP5SD . . . and since I'm in Texas it's at least a theoretical possibility to jump through all the paperwork hoops and legally obtain a pre-86 gun. But there are relatively few transferable suppressed subguns on the market, and even the heavily used ones I've seen advertised cost as much as a brand new car.

A nice brand new car.

[dogmush]

The only HK I really covet is the HKMP5SD . . . and since I'm in Texas it's at least a theoretical possibility to jump through all the paperwork hoops and legally obtain a pre-86 gun. But there are relatively few transferable suppressed subguns on the market, and even the heavily used ones I've seen advertised cost as much as a brand new car.

A nice brand new car.

One of the guys on the 80% builders FB group I'm in built one.  He built it as a two stamp gun with the suppressor and short barrel.  I think he's got a registered trigger pack for it, but he said the gun with a Semi trigger pack wasn't that bad.  Like $3k or so.

Lots of machine work though.