Kerosene Shop Heater

[charby]

You're tellin' me! 

If it ends up burning okay, I'm going to happily chop down a couple trees a year and hit the stumps with 2-4-D, because guys say if you don't poison the trunk, you'll already have a new tree growing by Spring, and these things supposedly grow 6-8'/year.

Better off with using Glyphosate (Roundup) as a concentrate and painting the cut stumps with the concentrate.

[Ben]

Better off with using Glyphosate (Roundup) as a concentrate and painting the cut stumps with the concentrate.

On the interwebz it seems to be around 50/50 whether to use Roundup or 2-4-D. Maybe I'll douse them with both just to be sure. 

I saw a few calls for Crossbow, but I've never used it so know nothing about it.

[charby]

On the interwebz it seems to be around 50/50 whether to use Roundup or 2-4-D. Maybe I'll douse them with both just to be sure. 

I saw a few calls for Crossbow, but I've never used it so know nothing about it.

Crossbow is 2,4-D (Butyl ester) and Triclopyr, need to mix it with diesel fuel to be really effective on cut woody plants.

[Ben]

Crossbow is 2,4-D (Butyl ester) and Triclopyr, need to mix it with diesel fuel to be really effective on cut woody plants.

Ah, okay. I just buy the farm store generic 2-4-D. Didn't know it was Crossbow. I've never used it before I moved here, I was always a Glysophate man, but the neighbors all seem to like it for pasture application.

[RoadKingLarry]

On the interwebz it seems to be around 50/50 whether to use Roundup or 2-4-D. Maybe I'll douse them with both just to be sure. 

I saw a few calls for Crossbow, but I've never used it so know nothing about it.

When I need to kill the tough stuff really *expletive deleted*ing dead that's what I do. 50/50 mix of glyphosate and 2-4-D mixed to brush killer strength with some cheap dish soap added.

[charby]

Ah, okay. I just buy the farm store generic 2-4-D. Didn't know it was Crossbow. I've never used it before I moved here, I was always a Glysophate man, but the neighbors all seem to like it for pasture application.

Crossbow kills broadleaves, not grasses so it's great for grass pastures. I don't think it has a any grazing restrictions like other pasture herbicides.

Crossbow just isn't 2,4-D, has another herbicide Triclopyr in it. Triclopyr is a really effective herbicide for woody and waxy leaf broadleaves.

[zxcvbob]

Garlon 4 (60-something % triclopyr) is what you want.  Dilute it 1:3 with diesel, kerosene, or light fuel oil (the red dye off-road stuff is perfect), and apply it to the freshly-cut stumps.  If treating a really large stump, just apply it to the outer bands; I think it's called the cambium.

You can buy generic triclopyr on amazon, but the price fluctuates quite a bit, and it's really high right now.  I think I paid $65 for a gallon of the Agstar brand with free shipping.  Now it's about $100 but it should come down.  Depending on what state you're in, you might can buy it at your local Tractor Supply.  There's also a premixed stump-icide called Tordon RTU (I think it's from Dow Chemicals) that costs about $20 for a quart, but a quart will treat quite a few small stumps.  Get that at TSC too.

1/2 tsp (or is it 1/2 Tbsp?) 3/4 tsp of Garlon 4 or equivalent per gallon of water is pretty effective at killing creeping charlie, wild violets, and other tough broadleaf lawn weeds.  It's not fast but it works on stuff that laughs at 2,4-d.  Now is a really good time of year to treat a creeping charlie infestation.

ETA: https://www.solutionsstores.com/triclopyr-4-brush-killer-garlon-4

[K Frame]

From keeping a shop warm to murdering trees.

This place is great!

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[Ben]

Well, to continue the thread randomization, I just fired up the Napoleon an hour ago for the first time. It's putting out some nice even heat. I started to use the blower, but that thing is loud.  I switched to what the previous owner's wife told me she did, which was use the ceiling fan above the stove. That seems to be distributing the heat nicely.

Supposed to be 26 tomorrow morning and 20 on Friday morning, so I'll get some use out of it the next couple of days. :)

[K Frame]

Napoleon?

As in pellet stove, or wood stove?

It's been chilly here the last couple of days, but nothing near where I need to consider either firing up my pellet stove or the heat pump. I figure that will be at least a few more weeks.

But, for the first time since I've lived here, I'm actually looking forward to winter because I know that I'll be warm.

[Ben]

Napoleon?

As in pellet stove, or wood stove?

Wood stove. I'm still getting accustomed to how to get an EPA stove going good. The old Franklin stove was just like starting a campfire. I miss the easy starting, but not so much all the smoke in the house. 

[Ben]

Well, I finally found kero at the pump. $4.60/gal, which is half what it costs at the farm store, but more expensive than prices posted here. I'll have to look around some more, but if I have to make a long drive, it kinda eats into savings. The good thing about this place is that it's by Costco and a bunch of other stores that I use, so easy to make a combo trip. Plus I know the fuel is fresh here. Pretty cool station - at the pump they sell about every gasoline there is, including 110 octane racing fuel, plus the diesels and the kerosene.

Oh, on the firewood tangent: Charby, you were dead on regarding the burnability of the Russian olive. I had one big ass fallen limb that I bucked up, and I took RKL's advice on a moisture meter, which showed the wood at 10%, so I gave it a go this morning. It burns just fine, puts out a decent heat, and no smell to speak of. I think it still works best as a mix wood, but it will sure cut down on paying for a bunch of other hardwood.

I've already identified around ten other big limbs (really, trees in themselves) that have been down for who knows how long, so I'm gonna turn them into firewood as long as they're still in good condition. Should work out well since I kinda under-bought this year.  I should have twice the wood that I have stored. Burning these limbs will help. Plus now instead of removing all these trees, I'll put up with the thorns and maybe just alternate knocking them down to stump level and letting them regrow. As fast as they grow, I should have firewood for the rest of my life here.

[charby]

Oh, on the firewood tangent: Charby, you were dead on regarding the burnability of the Russian olive.

Well I do have a piece of parchment that says I'm a forester (and agronomist) 

[K Frame]

Bet that parchment would burn well, too...

🤣

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[French G.]

Got my own shop heat. Shop has a nice Sierra wood stove, but that is going in my basement. Went to the dumpster, there sits a nice condition sick type heater. Half full of kero, took it home and burned it in the shop all day. Worked great, wick just needs trimmed and adjusted.

[K Frame]

Looks like it's FINALLY going to get chilly enough that I can fire up the pellet stove this weekend. We're supposed to have a warm front come through tomorrow that could kick off some strong storms (sucks to be a little kiddy jonsing for candy), but that's going to pull much colder air in behind it. They're talking we could, possibly, have our first frost Saturday into Sunday.

Ah. They've revised the temperature forecast. High 20s Saturday into Sunday.

Bring it. My stove will keep me warm!

[Ben]

Well I do have a piece of parchment that says I'm a forester (and agronomist) 

Well, glad you're here. It was both interesting and frustrating to me to see how little info there is on the interwebz on Russian olive as a firewood, especially considering how invasive and common it is. People couldn't even figure out if it's a hardwood or softwood. I think I found accurate info on the BTUs, around 25. Also, non-firewood related, it seems to make beautiful woodworking projects.

Well, 7 degrees right now and I just stepped out in my PJs to bring a little wood in. Not nearly as cold-feeling as yesterday in the 20s with wind in the 20s.

I think I've found a nice combo of wood to use.  I bought some "mixed hardwood" from a local landscape place. I don't know what kind it all is, but it burns well. They charge $230/cord.

Then I found out the local post and pole place sells pine firewood, which is mostly their production ends and stuff, so it comes as unsplit logs. I was leery that they had no set price - "Just take what you want, we'll measure and charge you accordingly." Just because I wasn't sure how well it would burn, I only took about 1/2 of a pickup bed worth. They charged me 19 ducats. Next year I'm going there earlier (I was just there a couple of weeks ago and they were almost out of this year's wood) and getting at least a cord. It's worth the work of splitting for that price, and I really like pine for getting a fire going hot right off that bat.

Then I've got a good supply of my own wood. Off the top of my head, probably 30-40 of these Russian olives, most of them quite large and mature. So trimming 2-3 of them back to the trunk every year should give me at least a cord.

Mixing the three of them together over the last couple of days has given me a really nice fire that gets hot quick but then burns moderately for a good long while.

[French G.]

Man,  I always stayed away from pine growing up around woodstoves on the theory it was going to cost the chimney and then set it on fire. But I burn a fireplace a lot and had some of last year's limb wood laying around. Wow, might as well toss gas in there. I have a bunch of some kinda trashy for the old owners planted my entire property boundary and they are all dying from beetle attack and or wind. Every time I put one in a pile and burn it I cannot imagine living out west in a forest full of that. Near instant burning and then just rolling black smoke from all the resin.

[K Frame]

Interesting discussion on burning pine here: https://homeguides.sfgate.com/burning-pine-indoor-wood-stove-48601.html

Most people I know have always avoided it, but some people I know have no problem with burning it if it has seasoned REALLY well - 2 or 3 seasons after splitting.

Pretty much anyone who has used a woodstove knows, though, that the best defense against creosote is to maintain flue temperature.

[Ben]

Pretty much anyone who has used a woodstove knows, though, that the best defense against creosote is to maintain flue temperature.

Yes. I use a stove thermometer. From what I have read, well-seasoned pine works well in EPA stoves. As I said, I just use it as a mixer, but I've stayed in VRBOs in Mammoth where the only wood was local pine, and stoves there get used a lot. I think good chimney maintenance plays a role as well.

[charby]

Well, glad you're here. It was both interesting and frustrating to me to see how little info there is on the interwebz on Russian olive as a firewood, especially considering how invasive and common it is. People couldn't even figure out if it's a hardwood or softwood. I think I found accurate info on the BTUs, around 25. Also, non-firewood related, it seems to make beautiful woodworking projects.

Technically it is a hardwood. Hardwoods are deciduous and softwoods are coniferous. Even cottonwood is a hardwood and bald cypress is a softwood. Like magazine vs clip. 

I really like pine for getting a fire going hot right off that bat.

I like cottonwood or poplar, but I can get plenty of that locally, burns hot and fast, gets the chimney drafting good. If I burned wood all winter, a face cord of kindling wood would be plenty if you are following up with well seasoned firewood.

Then I've got a good supply of my own wood. Off the top of my head, probably 30-40 of these Russian olives, most of them quite large and mature. So trimming 2-3 of them back to the trunk every year should give me at least a cord.

Mixing the three of them together over the last couple of days has given me a really nice fire that gets hot quick but then burns moderately for a good long while.

Probably want to cut several cords your first year or two, so you'll always have plenty that is seasoned. Basically you are cutting next years (or two) firewood when you drop and buck trees.


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[RoadKingLarry]

My goal is  minimum of 2 years ahead. I'm still playing catch up after the hip replacement set me back.
Some wood like Ash will burn perfectly fine after a year. Oak is a minimum of 2 years to be properly seasoned in my climate.  If I can cut standing dead I can usually see a <20% moisture content in the upper half to third of the tree.
Keep in mind that wood will not season in a reasonable amount of time till it's been cut to length and split.

[K Frame]

During the height of the gypsy moth infestation of the early 1980s Pennsylvania was begging people to take permits to cut dead trees for firewood to combat the potential for fire.

More than a few people I knew in that area had multiple years worth of firewood. The family that I stayed with quite a bit (good friends with their sons) put me to work helping. They got to where they had close to 10 years worth of firewood cut, split, stacked, and under cover.

[RoadKingLarry]

Unfortunately around here firewood wont last more 3-4 years due to powder post beetles and other bugs. I've seen stacks of firewood that were in a barn, off the floor and always dry reduced to not much more than wood dust in less than 5 years.

[Ben]

Probably want to cut several cords your first year or two, so you'll always have plenty that is seasoned. Basically you are cutting next years (or two) firewood when you drop and buck trees.

That's my eventual plan. I have to find a good storage location. For this year's wood, I'm using a small grain silo that the previous owners left behind. I have no use for it as a silo right now, and it's actually perfect for curing wood. Even on 50 degree days it's hot inside, so I imagine it speeds up seasoning a bit.