Author Topic: Free trade  (Read 2569 times)

CAnnoneer

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Free trade
« on: March 02, 2007, 09:54:36 AM »
Free Trade and Funny Math
by Patrick J. Buchanan  (More by this author)

Posted: 02/27/2007
To the devout libertarian, free trade is not a policy option to be debated, but a dogma to be defended. Nowhere is this more true than at that lamasery of libertarianism, the Cato Institute.

But with America running the worst trade deficits in history, the monks are having a hellish time of it. Hence, like the neocons who cherry-picked the intel to stovepipe to Scooter to bamboozle us into believing national survival hung on invading Iraq, they feed us irrelevant truths and deny us the whole truth.

Case in point -- the Feb. 22 column in The Washington Times by one Daniel Ikenson, "associate director at the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies." Bewailing the "barrage of hyperbole and misinformation about trade and its relationship to jobs and economic growth," Ikenson assured us, with impressive statistics, that globalism is working out wonderfully well for America.

"(T)he Census Bureau data show that U.S. export growth was phenomenal in 2006, increasing by 14.5 percent. ... Exports to Europe increased by 15.2 percent and to China by nearly 32 percent. The growth in exports to Japan was a slower 7.5 percent, but it grew. Since 2001, U.S. exports have increased by more than 42 percent."

Wow. Phenomenal indeed. And it does sound like we are cleaning those foreigners' clocks. But Ikenson ignored the other side of the ledger.

That the U.S. trade deficit in 2006 rose to an all-time record of $764 billion. That the deficit in goods hit $836 billion. That the deficit with China rose 15 percent, from $203 billion in 2005 to $233 billion in 2006, the largest trade deficit ever recorded between two nations. That the deficit with Japan rose to $88 billion, the largest ever between us.

Under Bush, the U.S. trade deficit has set five straight world records, as has the U.S. trade deficit in autos, parts and trucks. So reports Charles MacMillion of MBG Services, who has for years tracked the decline and fall of American manufacturing.

For manufactured goods, our trade deficit rose to $536 billion, from $504 billion. In Bush's six years, America has run a total trade deficit of $2.6 trillion in manufactured goods, as 3 million U.S. manufacturing jobs have disappeared and wages in that sector have fallen 3 percent in three years.

Query to Ikenson: If these numbers represent a successful trade policy, what would a failed trade policy look like?

Recall NAFTA. In 1993, we had a trade surplus with Mexico. Some of us warned it would be gone with the wind if NAFTA passed. And NAFTA did pass, through the collaboration of Clinton Democrats with Gingrich Republicans, over the opposition of the American people.

Since 1994, we have run a trade deficit with Mexico every year. In 2006, it hit a record $60 billion. Grand total: almost $500 billion in trade deficits with Mexico since NAFTA. Mexico now exports more than 900,000 vehicles to the United States every year, while the United States exports fewer than 600,000 cars and trucks to the entire world.

This is success?

Where did Mexico get an auto industry? Is it good that our auto industry is being exported? Has the price of a new car plunged because Mexicans get paid a fraction of what U.S. autoworkers earn?

"In 2006, the U.S. economy grew by an additional 3.4 percent," writes Ikenson. True, and China's economy grew by 10 percent -- and by 140 percent over the last 10 years, tripling the growth in the United States. Not only are we shipping factories, technology, equipment and jobs to China, we are exporting our future to China.

Nor should this shock any student of history. For contrary to free-trade mythology, every nation that has risen to pre-eminence and power -- Britain before 1860, the United States from 1860-1914, Germany from 1870-1914, postwar Japan, China today -- has pursued a mercantilist or protectionist trade policy.

Economic nationalism is the policy of rising powers, free trade the policy of declining powers. For great powers have ever regarded trade as an arena of struggle in the clash of nations. It is no accident all four presidents who made it to Mount Rushmore were protectionists.

"Thank God I am not a free trader," wrote Theodore Roosevelt. "Pernicious indulgence in the doctrine of free trade seems inevitably to produce fatty degeneration of the moral fibre."

Think Teddy might have had a point, Mr. Ikenson?

Probably not. For libertarianism is an ideology, and evidence that contradicts the dogma of an ideology is to be disregarded or denied. For the dogma cannot be wrong.

Indeed, should Ikenson awake from his dogmatic slumber and decide that free trade is failing America, he would not last long as associate director of the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies. The folks who fund Cato are not paying to have dogma debated, but defended. For if the dogma be untrue, then the ideology, the whole system of beliefs, the faith itself, is called into question. And we can't have that.


Warren

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2007, 10:05:37 AM »
Um, yeah. People being FREE to trade with others is a bad thing. Good job Pat.

That's what I want from my government: more meddling with my life.

zahc

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2007, 10:09:44 AM »
I can't say I'm an expert on international politics and finance. Is there anyone besides the author of that article that thinks total free trade is a bad idea? Can someone impress on me why it is always a good idea?
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The Rabbi

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2007, 10:14:37 AM »
You need to look at Thomas Sowell's Economics A Citizens Guide or whatever it is called.
I'll give one small example: earlier in Bush's admin, the steel makers came demanding protection from competition.  Bush figured he would get lots of votes from their union and caved.  So the steelmakers got protection.
Well, a lot of other manufacturers here (autos, appliances) use steel.  Their costs suddenly went up.  They weren't very happy.  The tarrif cost the U.S. much more in higher prices than it saved in US jobs.  In fact, it cost US jobs in industries outside of steel.
Characteristically Bush realized it was a bad idea and let it die under pressure from the EU.  He also didnt get any more votes out of it since unions are merely Democratic party outposts.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2007, 10:15:50 AM »
Can someone impress on me why it is always a good idea?
Because interfering with the free market has always proven to be a Very Bad Thing.

Manedwolf

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2007, 10:22:58 AM »
Quote
That the deficit with Japan rose to $88 billion, the largest ever between us.

That would seem to me to be an indication that Japan MAKES BETTER STUFF than we do, because their management teams don't have their heads up their posteriors, and are more concerned with getting cutting-edge products out the door than doing one of the two things American companies have been far too guilty of:

1) Dotcom burnouts, blow a whole lot of cash, produce nothing but hype press releases, implode.

or

2) Move at the pace of a glacier, sticking with policies and materials that "were good enough for 1960, so they're good enough for today!"

China gets our sales because they're cheaper. Not much we can do about that. But Japan gets them because they consistently design and produce better, more advanced things that consumers want. From Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus quality and reliability to well-engineered, sleek consumer electronics, they'e been kicking the US all over the place in being a market leader in high-tech durable goods.

AKA...The Free Market. If we want to do better, we need to compete. That one's our own fault.

And yes, some companies ARE making inroads there, too. Turns out that Apple is phenomenally popular there, since it fits their quality and design ethos. The iPod sells, and there's a five story Apple store in one of Tokyo's most fashionable districts. Every product there was designed in the United States, by Americans. So we can do it.

The Rabbi

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2007, 10:28:33 AM »
I'll also mention that the term "trade deficit" is very misleading.  Actually it also counts investments being made here.  When overseas investments in the US rise dramatically that is counted as a deficit, even though we benefit. And I think it does not count figures for services, which is a big part of the economy.
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zahc

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2007, 10:29:10 AM »
Quote
Because interfering with the free market has always proven to be a Very Bad Thing.

I understand that as a rule of thumb, but does it change anything if the other countries we deal with do not operate on the same system we do? Wouldn't that only apply if everyone else felt the same way?
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The Rabbi

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2007, 12:23:10 PM »
Quote
Because interfering with the free market has always proven to be a Very Bad Thing.

I understand that as a rule of thumb, but does it change anything if the other countries we deal with do not operate on the same system we do? Wouldn't that only apply if everyone else felt the same way?

No, because the essence of trade is that it is all voluntary:no one makes deals that are counter to his self-interest.
If country X wants to subsidize their steel industry, then they will pay millions of tax-payer dollars so worldwide consumers of steel can have below-market prices.  Eventually they tend to get sick of that.  Or alternatively their steel industry becomes fat and uncompetitive and they either have to dump even more money in to keep it going or cut the whole thing out.
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Art Eatman

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2007, 12:34:22 PM »
Probaly 40-eleven contributory reasons for the situation Buchanan's griping about.  Maybe more.

Manufacturing?  Hey, the undeveloped world developed.  I remember back in the late 1960s when all of a sudden the cost of aluminum "mag" wheels dropped.  They were coming from India.

Japan's car industry didn't have the drawbacks of jobs-protection on the part of unions.  They went more strongly and sooner into robotics.  The time to assemble a car for Toyota was around 7 or 9 hours, I forget, exactly; for Ford and GM is was around 14 and for Chrysler around 17.  Ford's paying around $1,500 per car for health insurance for its employees.  Toyota ain't.  That means that for a given sales price, there's no way in hell that we can make as good a car.

The Japanese government doesn't tax the corporations except when the corporations can afford it.  That is, Kubota sells bulldozers at or below cost until it drives Catepillar out of a market.  Then, the sales prices are increased.  The government helps structure the paperwork through the early phases of "market theft".

Oh, don't forget that many foreign countries have no strictures against bribing the thugocrats in autocracies in order to get sales.  The U.S. has strict and harsh laws against such.

Roughly 2/3 of the US economy has to do with consumer items.  Less than 1/3 is in manufacturing.

One part of the trade deficit is oil.  $90 billion a year?  Something like that.

I've watched people in Germany, in and out of stores.  They don't seem to buy as much frou-frou "stuff" as we do.  Hey, watch a check-out line in a WallyWorld or other big-box store.  Beaucoup plastic "stuff".

I think my wife is worse than many--but she's nowhere near being unique.  For all that we have more sheets, pillow cases and towels than we can wear out in the rest of our lifetimes, you let that woman see a sign saying, "White Sale" and she'll have a squalling fit if she can't go in and buy some damned thing of which we already have too many.

The rest of the world doesn't seem to be into "Shop 'til you drop."

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Perd Hapley

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2007, 12:40:43 PM »
Quote
For libertarianism is an ideology, and evidence that contradicts the dogma of an ideology is to be disregarded or denied. For the dogma cannot be wrong.


Since dogma means truth, one's dogma had better not be wrong. 

An ideology is simply a way of looking at the world.  It is a worldview, a point of view, a philosophy.  Anyone who thinks deeply has an ideology. 
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2007, 12:44:35 PM »

Quote
Anyone who thinks deeply has an ideology.


Okay, so what happens if you think you have an ideology?

Brad

p.s. - My karma ran over your dogma.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2007, 12:46:50 PM »
Brad, you do NOT have an ideology.  Tongue
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richyoung

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2007, 12:53:44 PM »
Quote
That the deficit with Japan rose to $88 billion, the largest ever between us.

That would seem to me to be an indication that Japan MAKES BETTER STUFF than we do, because their management teams don't have their heads up their posteriors, and are more concerned with getting cutting-edge products out the door than doing one of the two things American companies have been far too guilty of:

1) Dotcom burnouts, blow a whole lot of cash, produce nothing but hype press releases, implode.

or

2) Move at the pace of a glacier, sticking with policies and materials that "were good enough for 1960, so they're good enough for today!"

China gets our sales because they're cheaper. Not much we can do about that. But Japan gets them because they consistently design and produce better, more advanced things that consumers want. From Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus quality and reliability to well-engineered, sleek consumer electronics, they'e been kicking the US all over the place in being a market leader in high-tech durable goods.

AKA...The Free Market. If we want to do better, we need to compete. That one's our own fault.

And yes, some companies ARE making inroads there, too. Turns out that Apple is phenomenally popular there, since it fits their quality and design ethos. The iPod sells, and there's a five story Apple store in one of Tokyo's most fashionable districts. Every product there was designed in the United States, by Americans. So we can do it.


For 60 years, Japan's best and brightest have been making cars and electronics, in brand-new factories paid for by the American taxpayer, in many cases, as their existing infrastructer was rubblized coutesey of Curtis LeMay and pals.  At the same time, they have ben sheltered by a military provided for by the very same American taxpayer, who got to pay for this the THIRD time over in that OUR best and brightest were making things like SR-71s, super carriers, jet fighters and bombers, (and weapons for same), M-60 and M-1 tanks, attack helicopters, a space program (see any Rising Sun flags on the Moon?), etc.  Don't sell the Yankee short.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2007, 12:54:38 PM »
Brad, you do NOT have an ideology.  Tongue

Actually I did, once.  But the doctor made me take these big pills and drink lots of water...

Brad
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Waitone

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2007, 08:35:12 PM »
Dominate the language, infuse common terms with new meaning, and you can control the debate.  So it is with "Free Trade".  A better term would be "Managed Trade" at which point we can begin to debate the merits of what we currently call "Free Trade".  If FT implies freedom to go where the best price/value mix can be found, why is it in a case one party does not have the freedom to adjust the terms of their participation.  One party simply gets to watch an employer send production somewhere else.  If the situation was truly related to freedom, the one party would be able to change ther terms of their participation.... . but they can't because of governmental fiat.  I fail to see the elements of freedom at play when one party is forced to absorb higher costs imposed by a third party.  When those higher costs can no longer be supported by market pricing only a few alternatives remain.

Specifically, in the US workers are not free to negotiate wage rates.  They can not agree to dispense with employer side of social security.  They can not drop workman's comp.  No relief from environmental regulation is possible.  Safety regulations are not negotiable.  Heaven forbid we would get relief from the ligitation premium built into product costs and prices.  In other words, the US worker is not permitted to negotiate the terms of their employment because of costs imposed by a third party.  A prospective employers only recourse is to flee the US labor market.  Yet for some reason the general public thinks we are looking at free trade and try to explain what we see by theoretical models when the reality of the situation do not match theoretical abstractions.

Then there is the issue of managed trade being used as a way to implement US foreign policy.  Be a good little country and we here at US.Fed.gov will give you preferrential access to our markets.  So lemme see if I got it right.  The government gives another country preferential access to our markets as a reward to engaging in behavior our government approves of.  Free Trade?  More like Italian Fascism in my view.

I gotta hand it to our corporate betters and their cat's paws in government.  They dominate the discussion through judicious manipulation of language.  Pat Buchanan and Paul Craig Roberts have a clear handle on reality.
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Art Eatman

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2007, 03:22:26 AM »
Waitone, you're objecting to what you call government intervention as to working conditions, yet you want to follow Buchanan's view that government intervention for tariffs is good.  Isn't that having it both ways?

A problem in all this is that from the standpoint of hours worked in order to buy "stuff", "stuff" is very cheap.  People are living well.  If you protect jobs here that are being done well and cheaply elsewhere, the cost of "stuff" rises.

Imported 7.52x39 is is less costly than made-here 7.62x39, isn't it?

Of which can you have more:  A $5 shirt from Bangladesh, or a $40 Hathaway made in the US?

Nowhere was it ever written that the undeveloped coutnries wouldn't develop and compete with us.  Nowhere was it ever written that we'd win out in the competition in manufacturing.

If somebody beats you in checkers, take up chess.  IOW, get out of manufacturing and figure out other ways to generate wealth.

Besides housing bubbles, though.

Art
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CAnnoneer

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2007, 05:56:16 AM »
Our competitiveness will increase if we drop a long list of socialist laws. But that is politically impossible.

Waitone

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2007, 05:18:41 PM »
What I see going on now is market adaptations to government mandated and imposed distortions in the marketplace.  Yes, dropping trade barriers is "a good thang" in that it give some relief government imposted distortions in the US marketplace.  As with all market adaptations symptoms are assuaged but the causes remain.  At some point a market based economy will wring out those imposed distortions. 

Don't get me wrong, I fully support the idea of a producer being able to move production where capital is treated best.  Where I spy trouble there appears to be no effort to relieve the stress which causes corporations to seek lower cost production sites.  Government is not a neutral observer in the markets.  Government is the cause of market actions and reactions.  Until the market is permitted to make corrections distortions will continue to grow making the eventual correction much more profound. 

I see no evidence our government at any level understands its participation in future troubles.  Specifically, we will either have to reset our fixed costs structure here in the US or we will simply see business go away.  It will require government to scale back and become less intrusive.  My view of reality is we will never see government willingly cut back in the US.  Those causing the problem will attempt to protect themselves and feel sorry for the poor slobs who can't protect themselves.  In other words we will see the sowing of the seeds of revolution in that we effectively develop a two class society; those who are subject to the iron fist of the market and those who think they are protected from that same iron fist.
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The Rabbi

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2007, 03:54:21 AM »
Our competitiveness will increase if we drop a long list of socialist laws. But that is politically impossible.

It is politically impossible right now.  When the pain gets too great there will be calls for it.
Germany is far more regulated than we are here.  They are losing 10k jobs a month.
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MechAg94

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2007, 07:40:35 AM »
Workers do have control of their pay in this country.  They have relatively free movement from job to job in most cases.  Most of the operators at our plant have less than 3 years with us.  We went through a couple years of constantly losing people to other plants that were paying more.  We had to get our HR department to approve a pay increase so we could make sure we keep people.  We have a pretty good group now. 

I agree with a lot of the other comments.  Free trade is great, but don't talk about free trade and then keep hanging bureaucratic weights on the backs of your industry.

The only thing I would disagree with is the comment on environmental regulation.  Part of my job is to do the reporting to the state for the small plant I work at.  Some of it is repetitive and seems pointless, but it puts a management focus on limiting emissions which is a good thing.  I am sure the regulations could be improved, but many of them are there for a reason.

Same issue with safety regulations.  Most safety regulations were written with the blood of workers who died or were injured.  The injury/death rates in the chemical industry are night/day difference from 30 or 40 years ago. 

The tax and safety net regulations still leave you with a mountain of things to clean up first.  Smiley
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Manedwolf

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2007, 11:58:18 AM »
Same issue with safety regulations.  Most safety regulations were written with the blood of workers who died or were injured.  The injury/death rates in the chemical industry are night/day difference from 30 or 40 years ago. 

An awful lot of workers got killed or maimed by unshielded machinery before the safety laws of the 20th century, yes.
When unscrupulous bosses were involved, a new worker was cheaper than a safety cage around the whirling flywheels.

CAnnoneer

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2007, 12:47:34 PM »
Quote
An awful lot of workers got killed or maimed by unshielded machinery before the safety laws of the 20th century, yes. When unscrupulous bosses were involved, a new worker was cheaper than a safety cage around the whirling flywheels.

I suspect worker safety is also well-covered by criminal prosecution through "reckless endangerment" and/or "involuntary manslaughter". Why is special regulation necessary? In any case, that's a small portion of the load. Art said in another thread that each car made in US is $ 1,500 more expensive due to certain worker benefits.

It is not clear to me why the employers are required to provide health and retirement benefits. It may be a far freer and more efficient system to have workers choose and pay for it directly through private retirement investment funds. A colleague of mine once argued to me that the average worker is too stupid to do it for himself/herself, so the employer or at least he gov should step in. As usual, I'd vote for more freedom through more personal responsibility, not the opposite.

Guest

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2007, 12:51:54 PM »
I can't say I'm an expert on international politics and finance. Is there anyone besides the author of that article that thinks total free trade is a bad idea? Can someone impress on me why it is always a good idea?

 Don't you personally want to trade freely?  I do.

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Re: Free trade
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2007, 03:50:17 PM »
Quote
An awful lot of workers got killed or maimed by unshielded machinery before the safety laws of the 20th century, yes. When unscrupulous bosses were involved, a new worker was cheaper than a safety cage around the whirling flywheels.

I suspect worker safety is also well-covered by criminal prosecution through "reckless endangerment" and/or "involuntary manslaughter". Why is special regulation necessary? In any case, that's a small portion of the load. Art said in another thread that each car made in US is $ 1,500 more expensive due to certain worker benefits.

It is not clear to me why the employers are required to provide health and retirement benefits. It may be a far freer and more efficient system to have workers choose and pay for it directly through private retirement investment funds. A colleague of mine once argued to me that the average worker is too stupid to do it for himself/herself, so the employer or at least he gov should step in. As usual, I'd vote for more freedom through more personal responsibility, not the opposite.

I dont know how many suits for worker safety were ever launched by workers.  I suspect not many.
Employers are not required to provide retirement and health benefits.  It is in their interest to do so because those benefits are not taxable income to the worker and are deductible by the corporation.
There is a strong move to make those benefits taxable.  I fully support that move.  I fully support taxing anything that looks like income, simplifying the code and reducing the overall tax burden.
I saw a bumper sticker today that said "religious organizations should keep out of politics or be taxed."  I'd support taxing them regardless.
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