Author Topic: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?  (Read 1918 times)

AJ Dual

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Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« on: April 20, 2020, 12:09:02 PM »
SDR - Software Defined Radio.  A little USB device ranging from $19 up to $200 depending on abilities and features that lets you receive everything in the RF spectrum from about 100kHz to 2GHz.

Anyone else using one? I'm trying to pull in NOAA weather satellite images, but so far no luck, probably because I've got the wrong kind of antenna, a discone, when I need a curly-que QFH spiral antenna. I'm going to have to make one and figure out where to put it that doesn't make Mrs. Dual eye-roll too much.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2020, 12:13:29 PM »
I've got a buddy that lent me a big box o' ham stuff when I got my license, and an SDR dongle is one of the things in there.

I don't understand the function/purpose of it, nor how an antenna gets into the mix.  Care to 'splayn the appeal, utility, and infrastructure of the setup?
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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2020, 12:28:10 PM »
I bought one of those cheap DVB-T receivers that can be used as an SDR and it was kind of neat for a little bit.  Haven't used it in a while.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2020, 12:59:49 PM »
SDR - Software Defined Radio.  A little USB device ranging from $19 up to $200 depending on abilities and features that lets you receive everything in the RF spectrum from about 100kHz to 2GHz.

Never heard of it until I saw your post.
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RocketMan

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2020, 01:36:31 PM »
I have one set up as a FlightAware ADS-B station, with a Raspberry Pi 3 running it.  The SDR is actually a FlightAware Pro Stick, but it can be used as a regular USB SDR dongle if desired.  It was designed with ADS-B tracking in mind, so it has a special pre-amp that increases the strength of the received signal a bit before processing.  Otherwise it's not much different than any other USB SDR dongle.  Being an SDR, all of the FlightAware stuff is actually done in software on the Raspberry Pi.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2020, 01:20:51 PM »
I had bought a cheaper DVB-T SDR dongle a few years back when I first started flirting with HAM, but it's just got a little MCX snap-in connector and it died, so I went and got the RTL-SDR V3 sold by the blog. I picked up lots of interesting stuff even with the little whip antenna, was getting bord with Covid shut-in, and decided to try it again, and found out it was dead.

I've got the downconverter so I could pull in AM and SW, but the signal strength was crappy. I guess my Discone is limiting me there.

I set up some ADSB software, but with Covid, and a minimal military presence around Milwaukee, (The 128th Refueling Wing out of Mitchell seems to mainly drill in summer?) there's hardly any planes to track.  I know it was working though, as one small regional jet went by to the north of the city.   =D

Right now I've gotten the bug to pull down some NOAA satellite images, but haven't had any luck. Mainly because the discone I almost died putting on my 2nd story roof is ill suited to the frequency and polarization. Although, unless it was an air-pager going off right at the time of the passes and faded in and out at the right times instead of just cutting off, I've seen two signals, but didn't have the software, or the soundcard virtual pipe working right. Now that it's working right, I haven't seen any signals. I think the satellite needs to be almost dead overhead when you've got the wrong antenna.

I'm flirting with building a QHF helix antenna tuned to around 137Mhz to pull in the NOAA images, but don't know if I want to invest in the time and materials when I'm going to pull and image, say "Neat! I did it!" then likely just move onto something else. So I've got an LNA (low noise amplifier) on the way to see if it'll boost my gain any. Throwing money vs. time at the problem for now. For all I know I'm doing it all wrong. All the advice I've gotten is the LNA should be just after the antenna, but I'm not interested in getting back up on my roof, plus despite being powered by the bias-tee meaning I don't need any power up there for it, it's still not really an "outdoors" unit. So I don't know if I'm wasting my time putting the LNA in my house near the PC or not.

If you can tell, I'm not well versed in RF theory, I remembered enough to pass my Tech exam, then promptly forgot a lot of it. And I fully admit I tend to jump into hobbies and muddle randomly until I can do the "cool thing", then lose interest.

I've got a buddy that lent me a big box o' ham stuff when I got my license, and an SDR dongle is one of the things in there.

I don't understand the function/purpose of it, nor how an antenna gets into the mix.  Care to 'splayn the appeal, utility, and infrastructure of the setup?

Overall, the appeal to me is that this little $20 USB dongle and some freeware from the Internet does what a $2300 radio does. Minus transmit of course.

First you download something called Zadig, which gives most any SDR dongle it's driver and input into your PC.

Then you download SDR# which gives you a big fancy tuning screen with the FFT (Fast Fourier Transform) waveform on the top showing you peaks at different wavelengths where there's signals. The bottom half is the "Waterfall" the rainbow colored graph showing the signals as they go by in time. Because unless it's a constant transmission, the peaks come and go, and you want to see the colored dashes or shapes moving down the screen of what was happening so you can go tune there when it shows up again.

The antenna is where it gets kind of complicated. Because Physics, there's rarely one do-all antenna. Antenna design and types is as deep and complicated a subject as guns is at least. Different antennas are needed for different frequencies etc. And it depends on your house, where you're set up, and the land around you. Assuming your house isn't an RF proof steel box, and you just want to "get started" and hear something interesting enough to be worth your time and effort, a medium sized car antenna for HAM handhelds will probably let you get started and tune in commercial FM, nearby air traffic, non-digital non-trunked commercial and municipal radio traffic, and hear the HAM's talking on 2 Meters and 3 Centimeters.

After that, there's all sorts of side-quests you can get into, like the ADSB where it pulls in signals from aircraft going by and puts them on a map with their flight info.  Or you can set up digital decoding software to turn digital municipal and commercial radio into something you can hear. Or if it's a trunked system, you set up a second SDR dongle so the software can pull in the two frequencies that needs at once. Or like I'm interested in, polar orbiting NOAA weather satellites just constantly spam images of Earth and clouds down as they pass overhead.

This article has a good list of things you can do with a SDR dongle.

https://www.rtl-sdr.com/about-rtl-sdr/
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 01:48:49 PM by AJ Dual »
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RocketMan

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2020, 01:48:55 PM »
A discone antenna is not ideal for overhead reception, its field pattern being mostly out to the sides.  Think of a doughnut with the antenna in the hole to visualize it.
You might want to cobble together a crossed Yagi antenna cut for 137 mHz with a coax matching network to achieve circular polarization.  Easy enough to do with some eighth inch brass or brazing rod, 1x1 lumber and some 50 and 75 ohm coax.  Be sure to connect everything for the correct handed polarization, right or left.  That matters a lot.  The wrong polarization greatly reduces the antenna's effectiveness.
Or you could build a helical antenna.  It takes a bit more finesse in construction.  You'll need to figure out a way to wind the wire with reasonable accuracy, possibly using a mandrel of some sort.
I wound a 432mHz helical antenna once many years ago for amateur satellite work, but I'll be darned if I remember what I used for a mandrel. The actual conductor was 1/4 inch copper tubing.  Using a mandrel is not absolutely required, but it makes winding the element easier.
Keep in mind that a helical antenna for 137mHz is going to be pretty large.  A crossed Yagi array might be your best bet.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

AJ Dual

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2020, 02:05:15 PM »
Keep in mind that a helical antenna for 137mHz is going to be pretty large.  A crossed Yagi array might be your best bet.

This doesn't seem to be too big.

http://tinhatranch.com/how-to-build-a-qfh-quadrifilar-helix-antenna-to-download-images-from-weather-satellites/#.Xp8ya8hKiUk

But I'll look into a crossed Yagi, or even a double-cross. I've even seen just a horizontal 120 degree "V" some have set up.

https://www.rtl-sdr.com/simple-noaameteor-weather-satellite-antenna-137-mhz-v-dipole/

My main concern is that I need about 15 meters of coax to get from where antennas would go up to my PC in my basement workshop. I have no idea if that screws up the reception or what. And then that means I should set up a weatherproof Raspberry Pi, and then just TCPIP into the SDR feed. And that's a whole other level of effort I'm not sure I'm willing to commit.
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RocketMan

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2020, 02:27:32 PM »
You could build or buy an inexpensive broadband preamp to attach directly at the antenna.  Put it in a weather proof box, feed it power through the coax, you should be good.  It would overcome any meaningful loss in the coax at that frequency.  That would allow you to leave the SDR dongle and Raspberry Pi inside the shack.
I put a homebrew preamp on my 144mHz downlink satellite crossed Yagis years ago, and it worked pretty well.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

zxcvbob

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2020, 05:01:20 PM »
One more $20 computer doodad that I didn't know that I needed...   :lol:
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AJ Dual

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2020, 11:46:46 PM »
I got an image off of NOAA 18, sorta... kinda. I'm just pleased that I can see the frame data in the borders, telling me it's an actual satellite image.

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RocketMan

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2020, 11:56:12 PM »
That's cool.  You're making progress.  I may have to give that a try one of these days.  Just what my wife would like to see, another antenna in the yard.   ;/
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

AJ Dual

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2020, 12:26:50 AM »
I'm just pleased as punch to have received anything. I was manually compensating for doppler shift,  and using an ill-suited discone antenna. And snugged up against the interference from a poorly shielded wi-fi security camera's switching power supply mounted near the antenna that needs to be moved.
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RocketMan

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2020, 01:32:12 PM »
NOAA 18 is in a sun-synchronous orbit, as are most of the weather birds.  Are you wanting to pull images from the satellite when it is overhead at roughly the same angle, or do you want to track it?  Putting and az-el tracking system together is a fun challenge.  I did that back in my amateur satellite days.  Linking them to computers hadn't really come into their own at that time for amateurs, but it is quite common these days as I understand it.  My tracking had to be done manually by moving the rotator controls separately, looking for received signal peaks.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

AJ Dual

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2020, 04:40:32 PM »
NOAA 18 is in a sun-synchronous orbit, as are most of the weather birds.  Are you wanting to pull images from the satellite when it is overhead at roughly the same angle, or do you want to track it?  Putting and az-el tracking system together is a fun challenge.  I did that back in my amateur satellite days.  Linking them to computers hadn't really come into their own at that time for amateurs, but it is quite common these days as I understand it.  My tracking had to be done manually by moving the rotator controls separately, looking for received signal peaks.

I've thought about it. I know you can automate almost every aspect of tracking and time so you just sit there and collect images or even animated movies of Earth, clouds, and the sunlight going around in a folder, but being realistic, I'm not so consumed with it that I'll ever put in the effort.  As I've read the more exotic things people have done with SDR's, I've fantasized about finding an old but serviceable 1980's TVRO dish, and getting it motorized to do some amateur radio astronomy, but I know that's pie in the sky...

I think I'll make a QFH or double-cross Yagi as the weather gets better, after I figure out just how far I can get with my Discone and an LNA, and then after that, I'll probably move on. Maybe plug it all in to a laptop and take it to my kids school to show the ones who are interested.

Kind of why I bought a $30 Baofeng as my HT. I knew I was going to play with it for awhile, then lose interest, so I knew some $400+ HT was going to go to waste. Because smartphones do so much more...
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AJ Dual

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2020, 06:08:58 PM »
Slightly better image today. I'll see what they look like once the LNA arrives, but after that I'm going to need a better antenna.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 09:49:17 AM by AJ Dual »
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RocketMan

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2020, 11:53:30 PM »
Antennas can be a fun build project.  I've built quite a few over the years that I've been a ham.
One of my most recent ones was a collinear antenna with eight 1/2 wave elements cut for 1090 MHz, the ADS-B frequency.  It was originally housed it in a PVC pipe as that was all I had available at the time.  I rebuilt it two weeks ago, putting it in a fiberglass tube with an UV resistant end cap.
PVC and RF are not happy companions, especially at higher frequencies, as PVC tends to absorb RF.  Fiberglass is pretty neutral with RF, so that's why you see a lot of antenna structures made with it.
I also put up an end fed long wire with a home brew 1:64 feed transformer, and a full wave horizontal 80 meter delta loop in the last few months.  The delta loop was completed just last week and it's fed with a 4:1 current balun.  I've got an SGC autotuner that feeds both of those HF antennas.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

AJ Dual

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2020, 11:36:05 AM »
Rocketman, what do you know about LNA's?

I added this one in-line with the SDR, powered by it's Bias-Tee, and with it on, I'm getting nothing from the NOAA satellite passes.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XNLJ9X2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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RocketMan

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2020, 01:47:18 PM »
Do you have the antenna connected to the RF input?  That's where it belongs.  The RF output goes to the SDR dongle.  It's a very common mistake, one I've made a time or two with a home brew LNA years back, especially when I got in a hurry to get things on the air.
Check your power supply for the LNA.  Make sure it's actually supplying a voltage in the proper range.  Also, check whether the DC to the LNA is actually present at the end of the coax where it plugs into the LNA.
You might also try receiving something terrestrial like regular FM broadcast, or maybe police, fire, or 70 cm amateur radio.  Use that to test the system both with and without the LNA.  That should provide some information as to whether the LNA is working.

ETA:  The best place to install an LNA is as close to the antenna as possible.  It's real purpose is to overcome transmission line loss at higher frequencies.  Installed close to the antenna, it will boost whatever signal(s) the antenna is picking up.  Further down the transmission line it will boost whatever signal has not been lost by the line between it and the antenna.  It will also boost any noise that might have been picked up by the transmission line between it and the antenna.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

AJ Dual

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2020, 01:04:06 PM »
The connections between RF input and RF output is the right way. I've confirmed that.

Power supply for the LNA is within spec. The RTL-SDR Bias-Tee puts out 4.5V and the LNA takes 3-5V. And the Bias-Tee puts out 180mA, and the LNA needs 80mA. The OK/Power light on the LNA is on.

And I've gotten terrestrial 2m and 30cm HAM transmissions, the weather radio in the Marine Band, and all the usual FM commercial broadcast stations.

The one thing I haven't done is put up the LNA on the roof next to the antenna, it's next to the SDR in my house. I'm kind of forbidden from getting on the roof right now, and seeing as my father died falling off of stairs hasn't helped any with that.

So that might be it. I'll have to double check that the pass I'm watching is NOAA 18 or 19, which I believe are the only two broadcasting on 137.xxxMHz. 15 is partially retired and only broadcasting the high res images at 1.6GHz or something. 17 is completely dead IIRC.

The other reason I wasn't keen on putting it on the roof is I was hoping to put the LNA on the QFH antenna I'm going to build.




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RocketMan

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2020, 03:59:15 PM »
I wonder if a turnstile antenna would work in your application?  Think two folded dipoles, crossed in the middle.  Just brainstorming a bit, don't know that they would.  I remember seeing some in an old ARRL satellite handbook.
If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

Conservatives see George Orwell's "1984" as a cautionary tale.  Progressives view it as a "how to" manual.

My wife often says to me, "You are evil and must be destroyed." She may be right.

Liberals believe one should never let reason, logic and facts get in the way of a good emotional argument.

AJ Dual

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Re: Anybody running a SDR dongle on their PC?
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2020, 12:11:23 PM »
I wonder if a turnstile antenna would work in your application?  Think two folded dipoles, crossed in the middle.  Just brainstorming a bit, don't know that they would.  I remember seeing some in an old ARRL satellite handbook.

Yeah, a double-cross Yagi is supposed to work. Or anything sensitive to circular polarization. Just a 120 degree "V dipole" set horizontally oriented North/South to pick up the nominal direction of the polar orbiting satellite is supposed to work.

https://www.rtl-sdr.com/instructions-for-building-a-double-cross-antenna-great-for-noaameteor-weather-satellites/

Although I think a QFH will work better on the ground or under the eaves of my garage where I won't have to worry about weatherproofing it. And then I can have the LNA right in line after the antenna too.
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