Author Topic: Snowbird down  (Read 3627 times)

WLJ

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Snowbird down
« on: May 18, 2020, 08:53:38 AM »
It would appear the plane caught fire after takeoff from a witness in the BBC report

Quote
Witness Annette Schonewille told CBC News: "The one plane continued and the other one, there was two puffs, it looked like puffs of smoke and one... was a ball of fire," she said.

"No noise, it was strange, and then the plane just did a cartwheel and fell right out of the sky. Just boom, straight down, and then a burst of black, black smoke."
One dead after Canadian Snowbirds jet crashes into home
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52701421

Update – Canadian Forces member killed, another injured after a Snowbird plane crashes into Kamloops house
https://www.radionl.com/2020/05/17/reports-of-a-plane-down-over-brock/

No word yet if Trudeau is going to ban assault planes
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WLJ

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2020, 08:59:20 AM »
Quote

    The RCAF has suffered another tragic loss of a dedicated member of the RCAF team. We are deeply saddened and grieve alongside Jenn’s family and friends. Our thoughts are also with the loved ones of Captain MacDougall. We hope for a swift recovery from his injuries. – Comd RCAF pic.twitter.com/UZKJa6OT3S

    — CF Snowbirds (@CFSnowbirds) May 18, 2020

    A Nova Scotian storyteller, she was a journalist before joining as a Public Affairs Officer.

    Across Canada and the United States, she brought stories and smiles.
    She was one of us, our sister.

    Captain Jenn Casey died today.

    Please say her name.
    Remember Jenn.

    -30- pic.twitter.com/irCwKc5ThY

    — Canadian Forces in 🇺🇸 (@CAFinUS) May 18, 2020
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2020, 09:27:53 AM »
Will Canada count this as a Covid-19 death?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

WLJ

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2020, 09:51:06 AM »
Video and photos of the incident plus some details of the team, plane, and the ejection system.
It would appear the fire/smoke reported by a witness in the BBC report was from the ejection.

Snowbirds CL41 Tutor Crash 17 May 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Og_7sqU7s
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

French G.

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2020, 09:52:41 AM »
This is what I worried about when we started those stupid flyovers. Unnecessary combination of combat aircraft and densely populated areas. Never a big fan of air shows, too much risk, no reward. As for this one my bet is engine ate a bird and then spontaneously disassembled.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

MechAg94

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2020, 10:04:51 AM »
I had questions.  The video gives a little more information about what kind of jets these were and the ejection.  Sounds like they hit the ground hard even with ejection. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

makattak

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2020, 10:06:56 AM »
I hate to see the death of a pilot, but I'm also relieved no one in the house was hurt.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Hawkmoon

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2020, 10:38:28 AM »
Quote
The Snowbirds aerobatics team was scheduled to leave Kamloops at 10 a.m. and head to Kelowna via Merritt, Princeton, and Vernon today. The Operation Inspiration tour started in Nova Scotia earlier this month and was aimed at boosting morale as Canadians continue to struggle with the COVID-19 pandemic.

I don't understand how sending a bunch of highly-paid adults out to play in public with toys the average person can't afford is in any way a morale booster to people who can't work because their employers' businesses have been shut down.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

BobR

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2020, 10:51:01 AM »
I had questions.  The video gives a little more information about what kind of jets these were and the ejection.  Sounds like they hit the ground hard even with ejection. 

I was wondering about the ejection seat envelope and the video answered that. From the looks of the video they were in a bad attitude when they initiated the ejection sequence and it kind of shot them into the ground with no chute deployment. As an older trainer type of plane I didn't think they had zero/zero seats but you never know.

bob

Fly320s

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2020, 10:56:03 AM »
This is what I worried about when we started those stupid flyovers. Unnecessary combination of combat aircraft and densely populated areas. Never a big fan of air shows, too much risk, no reward.

The Snowbirds do not fly combat aircraft.  They fly old, slow trainers.  I know you were referencing the US flyovers, though.

"John Cuday, president of the Virginia-based International Council of Air Shows, contends air shows are safe for spectators. No spectator at an airshow – which has different rules than air races -- has been killed since the 1950s because of safety measures in place, he said."  https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local/how-safe-are-air-shows-here-how-many-crashes-occurred-past-decade/BUvmdtqlXZXAUYumQvpzSP/

Safer than racing cars.  https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nascar-auto-racing/thatsracin/article9152399.html

Quote
As for this one my bet is engine ate a bird and then spontaneously disassembled.
You might have this piece right.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Fly320s

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2020, 10:58:41 AM »
I was wondering about the ejection seat envelope and the video answered that. From the looks of the video they were in a bad attitude when they initiated the ejection sequence and it kind of shot them into the ground with no chute deployment. As an older trainer type of plane I didn't think they had zero/zero seats but you never know.

bob

Plane was upright when they ejected.  Not sure why they rolled it before that.  Maybe trying to point it into a field.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

WLJ

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2020, 11:05:14 AM »
  Not sure why they rolled it before that.  Maybe trying to point it into a field.

Think they tip stalled
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230RN

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2020, 11:26:23 AM »
...
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 04:36:33 AM by 230RN »

BobR

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2020, 11:37:33 AM »
Plane was upright when they ejected.  Not sure why they rolled it before that.  Maybe trying to point it into a field.

From what I saw in the video they were upright (possibly > 60 degrees nose down) and the smoke trails from the seat motors were going down at about a 45 degree angle. With the 60/60 seats there may not have been time for a full chute deployment before hitting the ground.. It will make the news when the CAF finishes their investigation. I think the bottom line (or major contributing factor) for the fatality of one and injuries to the other will be ejecting outside the seat envelope. Seldom does an ejection result in a fatality if done inside the seat envelope.

bob

Perd Hapley

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2020, 12:06:15 PM »
May Captain Casey rest in peace.


Tragic, but the reporting was a bit annoying in this sense:

It sure would have been nice to find out what a Snowbird was before getting halfway through the RADIO NL  article.  I suspected some kind of aero team (perhaps an elite military team, for example), but no confirmation unil then.

At first glance at the topic heading ("Snowbird down"), I thought it was the NCAR (National Center for Atmospheric Research --U.S.) weather plane...


Sounds more like a joint New York/Florida civil air corps project.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 12:21:41 PM by fistful »
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WLJ

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2020, 12:12:10 PM »
May Captain MacDougall rest in peace.


Captain Jenn Casey is the deceased
MacDougall was injured
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi

230RN

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2020, 12:20:31 PM »
^^  Actually, fistful, that was my second guess.  I was just being crabby about the assumption being, "just everybody knows what a Canadian Snowbird is."

My third guess had something to do with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police foot-racing in snowshoes.

I'm just full of irks this morning, is all.  =(

Who, What, When, Where, and How.

Terry, 230RN
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 12:36:00 PM by 230RN »

Perd Hapley

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2020, 12:21:52 PM »
Captain Jenn Casey is the deceased
MacDougall was injured

Doh!
Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?
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Fly320s

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2020, 12:25:25 PM »
Seldom does an ejection result in a fatality if done inside the seat envelope.

My father-in-law can attest to that.  He has ejected.  Twice.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

French G.

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2020, 12:38:33 PM »
The Snowbirds do not fly combat aircraft.  They fly old, slow trainers.  I know you were referencing the US flyovers, though.

"John Cuday, president of the Virginia-based International Council of Air Shows, contends air shows are safe for spectators. No spectator at an airshow – which has different rules than air races -- has been killed since the 1950s because of safety measures in place, he said."  https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local/how-safe-are-air-shows-here-how-many-crashes-occurred-past-decade/BUvmdtqlXZXAUYumQvpzSP/

Safer than racing cars.  https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nascar-auto-racing/thatsracin/article9152399.html
You might have this piece right.

I am aware of our air show record. I also think of the aircrew and of foreign shows. Working in the F-18 community you become aware that the sketchiest maintenance title belongs to the Blues. I know when an Oceana jet went splat on an apartment I was so happy that I read it was a two seater since at the time we only had single seats so I knew it wasn’t something I touched. It’s a terrible feeling. To my knowledge I never worked on a mishap bird.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

MechAg94

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2020, 04:42:43 PM »
On another note, I was not familiar with the Snowbirds.  I have heard snowbird used to decribe people from up North traveling down to their Winter homes further South. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

Angel Eyes

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2020, 06:00:56 PM »
Saw the Snowbirds perform at the Reno air races back in the late '70s.  An impressive aerobatic team.

Condolences to Captain Casey and her family.
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230RN

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2020, 06:54:35 PM »
Video and photos of the incident plus some details of the team, plane, and the ejection system.
It would appear the fire/smoke reported by a witness in the BBC report was from the ejection.

Snowbirds CL41 Tutor Crash 17 May 2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Og_7sqU7s

Great, great video, WLJ !  It seemed they were too high for a bird strike when the "pop" occurred --yes, no?

A. Is there any way to enhance the images to see if that was the case?

B. Do they have black (actually orange) box flight recorders on those planes in the aerobatic function?

C.  Do those GE engines send performance reports to satellites the way some P&W and R-R engines do?


Fly320s

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2020, 07:34:28 PM »
Great, great video, WLJ !  It seemed they were too high for a bird strike when the "pop" occurred --yes, no?

A. Is there any way to enhance the images to see if that was the case?

B. Do they have black (actually orange) box flight recorders on those planes in the aerobatic function?

C.  Do those GE engines send performance reports to satellites the way some P&W and R-R engines do?



They weren't too high for a bird strike.

A.  I doubt it, but I'm no expert.
B.  No idea.
C.  Not likely considering the age of the plane and the fact they are military.
4.  I'm not WLJ.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

WLJ

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Re: Snowbird down
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2020, 08:31:27 PM »
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
- Calvin and Hobbes

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.”
― James Randi