Federal executions to resume after almost 20 years

[MillCreek]

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/15/877748845/federal-executions-set-to-resume-after-nearly-two-decade-hiatus?utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR3grbOLKCCo9f6jf3R8KKFGASocKtp1KmcuczX2LYjqGEgPFcOg8WsyRiM&fbclid=IwAR2PvBuZdeRfCm7j1Kgiy9kixJVZ8_LKA_R7mOkqs7iwMdlUHqd2dmCfBWw&fbclid=IwAR3yu_1S6Qq0swtb9v64XOA6yjRANkFdMi1LJSFQyzTm7O27cxFjU5Is00k&fbclid=IwAR3WosXVeofSEuCAZvfmBFp1KYLYVZIEdY5mtSiAm0RQ9N6IUv2zA9B3rtE

Huh. The Feds said they were going to do this, and they went ahead and did it. It will be interesting to hear what protocol they are going to use, and will they have problems with drug availability, like the states do.

[Perd Hapley]

Making America Great Again

[MechAg94]

"The four murderers whose executions are scheduled today have received full and fair proceedings under our Constitution and laws," said Attorney General William Barr in a statement. "We owe it to the victims of these horrific crimes, and to the families left behind, to carry forward the sentence imposed by our justice system."

Well said.

[Perd Hapley]

“Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

[AJ Dual]

I assume it's because it would be years of court cases and legal challenges to change methods, that they haven't just switched to a plastic bag and a hose connected to a nitrogen tank.

And if finding the drugs is difficult because the wholesalers won't sell to the prisons out of legal or ethical concerns, I wonder if the DOJ could arrange an inter-agency loan from the VA to get them?

Hell, if they did that, they might just save the life of some poor veteran in the process from a horrible medical error. 

[zxcvbob]

“Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.” ― Martin Luther King Jr.

Amos 5:24 :)

[Perd Hapley]

Amos 5:24 :)

Word.

[Ben]

I'll say the same thing I always do in these threads. I don't want to abolish the death penalty. I also want to cut down on its use.

Far too many people have been found innocent after having sat on death row for decades. I'd rather pay for 100 guilty people to sit on death row while their sentences are being argued than to execute a single innocent person.

Death sentences need to have multiple independent and concrete sources of evidence. From DNA, to verified video, to the person stating (independently and without coercion), "I did it and I'm proud of it." If that happens, then I don't want them sitting on death row for more than a year before their sentence is carried out.

[Perd Hapley]

If any society had the tools to determine guilt or innocence in a murder trial, it's this one.

[Pb]

The death penalty in this country is a sad joke.

I would like to do it like the English used to do it prior to 1957.

A mandatory death penalty for all murderers, with the sentence carried out within a few months.

That would lead to probably over 9k executions a year.

Which would be a good start.

[MillCreek]

https://time.com/5636513/pentobarbital-executions-justice-department/

So the Feds plan to use a single large dose of phenobarbital for their lethal injection protocol, and they will probably get it from a compounding pharmacy.

[zxcvbob]

If any society had the tools to determine guilt or innocence in a murder trial, it's this one.

I agree.  We also have the tools to fabricate convincing evident out of thin air.   I used to be in favor of the death penalty.  Now I'm mostly against it, even tho' I do believe the government has the right to do it ours has kinda lost the moral authority to do so by convicting so many provably innocent people.

I still hope they seek the DP in the George Floyd murder (the feds will have to do that, Minnesota doesn't have the DP and I respect that)  I know I'm being hypocritical.

[Perd Hapley]

I agree.  We also have the tools to fabricate convincing evident out of thin air.   I used to be in favor of the death penalty.  Now I'm mostly against it, even tho' I do believe the government has the right to do it ours has kinda lost the moral authority to do so by convicting so many provably innocent people.

I still hope they seek the DP in the George Floyd murder (the feds will have to do that, Minnesota doesn't have the DP and I respect that)  I know I'm being hypocritical.

Oh, we've lost moral authority on a lot of things. One way we've done that is by failing to punish the guilty *cough* lockherup *cough*. We can earn that moral authority again, but it will mean doing the right thing - like executing murderers.

[MillCreek]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/daniel-lewis-lee-execution-crime.html

And the first one happened this morning.

[Hawkmoon]

I agree.  We also have the tools to fabricate convincing evident out of thin air.   I used to be in favor of the death penalty.  Now I'm mostly against it, even tho' I do believe the government has the right to do it ours has kinda lost the moral authority to do so by convicting so many provably innocent people.

I agree. In addition to the ability to fabricate evidence, we have prosecutors who have no compunction about withholding exculpatory evidence. IMHO, and prosecutor who does that should automatically be subject to the maximum sentence faced by the person he/she is trying railroad ... up to and including the death penalty.

The Flynn case is just the most recent and most famous/notorious example. Going back several years, there was the case of the Duke lacrosse players.

[Hawkmoon]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/us/politics/daniel-lewis-lee-execution-crime.html

And the first one happened this morning.

The usual suspects dissented.

In a second dissent, Justice Sonia Sotomayor, joined by Justices Ginsburg and Elena Kagan, said the court had acted with dangerous haste.

“Today’s decision illustrates just how grave the consequences of such accelerated decision making can be,” Justice Sotomayor wrote. “The court forever deprives respondents of their ability to press a constitutional challenge to their lethal injections, and prevents lower courts from reviewing that challenge.”

The crime was committed in 1996. That was 24 years ago. How is anything related to a 24-year old crime "accelerated"?

[230RN]

Running out of materials?

        

Isn't KCl the main heart-stopping substance injected?  

It's a little radioactive, but who cares in this application?

I like the idea of the plastic bag and the N₂ bottle.

For those who would ask:
A lecture bottle of N₂ contains about 3500 in³ of N₂ at sea level pressures and costs about $US 250.  But I'm pretty sure that's not enough volume for an execution.

Might be cheaper to just bring them to the dog pound.  

ETA  The NYT has enlightened me.  They are using a singl drug now:

The Trump administration announced last summer its intention to resume the federal death penalty and to employ a new procedure to carry it out — using a single drug, pentobarbital — after several botched executions by lethal injection renewed scrutiny of capital punishment.

[MechAg94]

Running out of materials?


Isn't KCl the main heart-stopping substance injected?  

It's a little radioactive, but who cares in this application?

I like the idea of the plastic bag and the N₂ bottle.

For those who would ask:
A lecture bottle of N₂ contains about 3500 in³ of N₂ at sea level pressures and costs about $US 250.  But I/m pretty sure that's not enough volume for an execution.

You get a six pack of breathing air and a six-pack of the same filled with nitrogen.  Put a breathing air mask (SCBA) on the criminal.  Could even do an emergency escape mask (which is basically a bag over the head).  Set up breathing and heart monitors.  Once things are set, valve over to the nitrogen.  The criminal will likely pass out before they even realize anything was changed.  Wait for vitals to stop.  Wait prescribed time.  Remove dead criminal.  If you want to be nice, put some laughing gas in with the breathing air.  

The breathing air packs and masks are standard industrial supply stuff.  

[Jim147]

The guy that shot at Hover and killed I think it was the mayor of Chicago was in the chair really quick. A week or a few.

[Perd Hapley]

Can you believe that racist Trump? Federal executions are back, and who does he put at the front of the line? One of his white supremacist buddies. That's favoritism, that is!

[K Frame]

The guy that shot at Hover and killed I think it was the mayor of Chicago was in the chair really quick. A week or a few.

Giuseppe Zangara. He was shooting at President Elect Roosevelt and hit Anton Cermak instead.

Zangara confessed to the shooting and was sentenced to 80 years in prison. When Cermak died nearly a month later, Zangara was charged with first degree murder, which he confessed to. Ten days later he was executed.

[Jim147]

Well I wasn't born yet so I thought I got some facts wrong. I was thinking about looking it up but I'm still to hot to think.

[zxcvbob]

For those who would ask:
A lecture bottle of N₂ contains about 3500 in³ of N₂ at sea level pressures and costs about $US 250.  But I'm pretty sure that's not enough volume for an execution.

Might be cheaper to just bring them to the dog pound.  

Why use a lecture bottle?  Why not a standard welding tank and flowmeter?  80 ft³ is a common size.  Attached to a respirator mask.  Probably some kind of contraption to start out with air (from a SCUBA tank?) and silently switch to N₂.  The plumbing is not that hard.  Give the condemned a Valium first if he wants it.  He'll be unconscious in seconds after switching the gas.

[230RN]

I really must use :) and more.

Did anyone notice my remark about bringing them to the dog pound?

(Yes, I noticed the laughing gas remark.)

I, too, am concerned about erroneous executions, as frequently mentioned , but given cases where proof is indisputable, society has a duty to itself to permanently remove  such miscreants from this earthly sphere.

I don't go along with the notion that execution is not a deterrent. This might be true in some cases, but I don't think that's the norm.

One of the problems is that "cruel and unusual" shifts with time.  I am thinklng of the Gary Gilmore execution by firing squad in Utah, where the condemned person actually chose that method over the other possibilities. Yet much polemic was generated over the "cruel and unusual" aspect despite the fact that firing squads were not at all that unusual.  Messy, perhaps, but not unusual at all.
  
And pretty much instantaneous to boot, removing the "cruel" part from consideration.

[WLJ]

Can you believe that racist Trump? Federal executions are back, and who does he put at the front of the line? One of his white supremacist buddies. That's favoritism, that is!

CNN wants their story back