Penetrating Oil

[Ben]

I was having irrigation wheel line issues this week and needed to call a guy out. When my cow guy and I were trying to diagnose it, we were attempting to remove a part that was simply stuck on. We sprayed Liquid Wrench, each had a big wrench, and were pulling to no avail. All we managed to do was bend a tube connected to the threaded part.

When the irrigation guy came out, he had a little oil can, squirted a few drops on the joint, banged it with a hammer a couple of times, and with me holding the part in place with a pipe wrench, he broke it free easy as can be. He told me his penetrating oil was the secret: half and half mix of acetone and transmission fluid.

Probably a bunch of you guys know this, but it was new to me, and I'm mixing my own this week. For those that didn't know about it, FYI. Slick stuff. 

[Nick1911]

Note, it will separate out on it's own, shake it before use.

I've had mixed luck with penetrating oils.  If I can get away with it, I prefer to use heat instead.

[Ben]

Note, it will separate out on it's own, shake it before use.

I've had mixed luck with penetrating oils.  If I can get away with it, I prefer to use heat instead.

Good to know. Unfortunately a lot of this stuff has rubber gaskets, so heat isn't ideal.

[Hawkmoon]

Good to know. Unfortunately a lot of this stuff has rubber gaskets, so heat isn't ideal.

Acetone probably isn't great for rubber gaskets, either.

[bedlamite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUEob2oAKVs

Don't put too much stock in the acetone/atf mix. I've found that after oiling, time is a big factor. Also hitting it probably helped a lot. One other thing is that when you feel it move, don't keep going, retighten it and loosen it a couple times and it'll loosen the rust without overstressing the bolt.

[Brad Johnson]

Penetrating oils don't penetrate nearly as much as people think. Their real benefit is as a lube and flushing agent once the fastener has been broken loose. In your case, it's likely most of the good came from the hammer blows. Disruption of the mechanical bond by impact or heat cycling is a much more effective way to unstick a stubborn nut/bolt.

*edit to add* bedlamite beat me to the punch on impact being a major contributor.

Go to the South Main Auto channel on YouTube. He's in Avoca, NY, and is constantly dealing with rusty/seized fasteners. Lots of good info there. Also, the Mustie1 channel. He does a lot of work on smaller engines and is pretty good at getting small fasteners to yield.

Bad

[Ben]

Thanks for the tips. On the gaskets, the penetrating oil doesn't come anywhere near them. One of the first things I learned getting the place was that in general, oil is really bad for this irrigation equipment (outside of the pump and motor) as it's all water lubed. Oiling stuff will work as a quick fix, but then it apparently damages bearings and stuff long term.

About the only place you can use something is in the threads going into the main line - pipe dope or never seez which are recommended by University of Utah, but which plenty of people say isn't good either. I'm using them (lightly) nevertheless, because whether it's the water here or something else, parts like my birds just seem to be seized on. At only ten bucks a piece, I'd rather have a lower life expectancy with an easier time of replacing them.

[Brad Johnson]

What materials are involved? Given the mix, you may also be dealing with galvanic corrosion. That can be even worst than plain old rust. If your irrigation pump is electric, the corrosion could be exacerbated by current issues (phantom grounds, shorted winding, etc).

Brad

[Boomhauer]

We use Kroil. That ATF and acetone mix works well but isn’t available to me in the shop. Kroil is stocked though

The real secret to frozen and rusty is torch and hammer.

[Kingcreek]

We use Kroil. That ATF and acetone mix works well but isn’t available to me in the shop. Kroil is stocked though

The real secret to frozen and rusty is torch and hammer.

Kroil from Kano Labs is great stuff but it needs some time to work. We used to order it a case at a time when dad and I were restoring Model T and Model A Fords.
Your acetone/ATF was working while you were waiting for your guy to show up with his magic potion.

[BobR]

Way back when I had some frozen parts on a plane in the Philippines, bad enough we had to cancel going home to Japan and was forced to spend another day/night in Olongapo (damn the bad luck!!).

The next morning on preflight the parts were moving again and smelled good to boot, they put oil of wintergreen on the parts and let it do its magic for a few hours. The smell faded the parts stayed free over time.

bob

[MechAg94]

Kroil from Kano Labs is great stuff but it needs some time to work. We used to order it a case at a time when dad and I were restoring Model T and Model A Fords.
Your acetone/ATF was working while you were waiting for your guy to show up with his magic potion.

The mechanics at work use Kroil as well  They typically like to spray it on the bolts and such the day before if they can. 


Would something like teflon tape help?

[Larry Ashcraft]

The old tractor guys use Kroil or PB Blaster.  And patience.

[Ben]

What materials are involved? Given the mix, you may also be dealing with galvanic corrosion. That can be even worst than plain old rust. If your irrigation pump is electric, the corrosion could be exacerbated by current issues (phantom grounds, shorted winding, etc).

Brad

The pipe is plastic and underground running the 1/2 mile from the pump to all the risers, then there's a fabric hose from the risers to the wheel line, which is aluminum, and the sprinklers are brass. The drain valves are aluminum, but none of them stick.

[Ben]

Would something like teflon tape help?

Kinda stupid of me not to have thought of that. Might be better than any pipe dope given the application.

Anyway, I just got back from the pasture and even with the banging and oil, it still took two of us to break them free without breaking something else, but mission accomplished. At the end of the season when I have more time, I'm going to replace all the rest of them and hopefully from now on they'll all come off easy.

[BobR]

Kinda stupid of me not to have thought of that. Might be better than any pipe dope given the application.

Anyway, I just got back from the pasture and even with the banging and oil, it still took two of us to break them free without breaking something else, but mission accomplished. At the end of the season when I have more time, I'm going to replace all the rest of them and hopefully from now on they'll all come off easy.

That sounds like work, I thought you were retired!?!

bob

[AZRedhawk44]

hitting it probably helped a lot.

Don't it always.

[Ben]

That sounds like work, I thought you were retired!?!

bob

 

This stuff is actually kinda enjoyable. I get to be out in the open air with the wildlife, not do anything overly strenuous, and call it a day around lunchtime. It's the *expletive deleted*ing weed control that I hate. Winter can't come soon enough for that, and I think next year I'm gonna hire someone to do it for me. Probably do the same for dealing with the Russian Olive trees so I don't lose so much blood. 

[Jim147]

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-59235-Pst-Pipe-Sealant/dp/B004BT8GE8/ref=pd_lpo_263_t_2/137-3569513-0418018?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B004BT8GE8&pd_rd_r=d1c2f374-d6af-416a-9045-d2b0b71e4b8e&pd_rd_w=86j1W&pd_rd_wg=M5JEA&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=JECN037XZQHTHNF1Q4N6&psc=1&refRID=JECN037XZQHTHNF1Q4N6

This is what is use on threaded fittings around here. I use PB Blaster but also have a spray bottle of WD40/ATF that I use for somethings

[lupinus]

PB Blaster is good stuff. WD40, especially some of their different formulations, is also quite good.

But that said when all else fails get the BFH, the BFCB, the BFW, or a combination of the three.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[zxcvbob]

PB Blaster is good stuff. WD40, especially some of their different formulations, is also quite good.

But that said when all else fails get the BFH, the BFCB, the BFW, or a combination of the three.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Does the BFCB work without the BFW?  (maybe I don't know what a CB is.  I think it's cheater bar)

[French G.]

I thought I replied to this, but kroil is life. PB blaster if I am poor. I also use heat cycling, heat making things liquid, intentionally breaking bolts then drilling them, nut cutters, Impact wrenches, impact of a hammer beating on a cheap wrench, cheater bars, more hammers, air hammers, etc. I feel like the Bubba Gump of breaking stuff. Gonna win though.

Something that goes a long way though is maintenance. A thread gets anti-seize, pipe tape and/or dope, or rarely loctite or specialty lubes like moly. Never dry. Tapered bearing surfaces get lube too. Never dry. An engineer that specifies a dry torque is lazy and dumb since the friction is too variable and also not what holds a thread.

[Jim147]

Yeap you have raced also.

[kgbsquirrel]

Thanks for the tips. On the gaskets, the penetrating oil doesn't come anywhere near them. One of the first things I learned getting the place was that in general, oil is really bad for this irrigation equipment (outside of the pump and motor) as it's all water lubed. Oiling stuff will work as a quick fix, but then it apparently damages bearings and stuff long term.

About the only place you can use something is in the threads going into the main line - pipe dope or never seez which are recommended by University of Utah, but which plenty of people say isn't good either. I'm using them (lightly) nevertheless, because whether it's the water here or something else, parts like my birds just seem to be seized on. At only ten bucks a piece, I'd rather have a lower life expectancy with an easier time of replacing them.

Mineralization from hard water?

[Ben]

Mineralization from hard water?

Might be. I guess it could also be that Magilla Gorilla installed the parts originally.