I'm almost a man

[Chuck Dye]

When I was first getting into truck driving, many big rigs had a "set of sticks:" two transmissions.  Put the main box in 1st, then run the pattern in the secondary box (usually called a splitter or Brownie in the U.S., a joey in Australia.)  Once in the splitter's high gear grab BOTH sticks and shift the main to 2nd, the splitter to first (one stick at a time may be too slow to catch the next useful ratio,) rinse and repeat as needed.

Once rolling, the clutch is not used as in those old unsynchronized trannies, if you do not match RPMs, you will not get the gear and the clutch only slows the process.

A good set of sticks provides progressive gearing and the driver gets to shift both boxes straight through their patterns.  Not all are progressive, in which case the driver must learn what holes to skip.  Too often, there was no one to teach the best pattern and the new driver had to discover the skips on the fly.  As some seeming upshifts are, in fact, down shifts, the discovery process can be hard on the equipment, driver, and fellow travelers.

Two sticks not enough?  How about two trannies and a two speed axle?  For those who have gone to automagics rather than stir a 5 speed in traffic, consider a 5x4x2 (yes, 40 gears, 'though only thirty or so might be used) that can require a shift every 50 to 75 RPM.

[mtnbkr]

Iain, we're driving from Northern Virginia to Mobile, Al (the very bottom of the state).  That's a trip of roughly 1000 miles.  We drove from NoVa to my grandfather's house in Goldsboro, NC yesterday.  We're making the balance of the trip today with a stop roughly halfway in Atlanta, Ga. 

Flying would be much faster, but also much more expensive ($1k for the three of us last I checked).

We're currently about an hour outside of Atlanta.  Thank god for technology or I might actually have to talk to my wife.  

Chris

[K Frame]

"How far is Chris driving?"


The way they're going, I think it will be about 1,100 miles, or about 1,770 km.

Oops, I didn't see the 4th page where Chris replied.

Fatboy, I'm saving that post to show to Michele if you get uppity with me. 

[280plus]

I vote we rename Huck Phinn, "Truck" Phinn... 

I'd get confused just trying to remember which gear I was in! 

Last standard I had didn't have a hand brake. Now what?

Yup, all cars should be able to hold on a hill. You can hear the engine start to take the load as you release the clutch slowly. It's actually called "slipping" the clutch, double clutching is a bit different. Once you get the hang of it, it becomes automatic. (If it's ok to use that word in this conversation)

 Anyhoo, once you're where the engine is loading up but not enough to stall you should reach a point where you can start slowly to release the brake and feel that the car is not moving backwards, at that point it is ok to move your foot to the gas and give it some as you smoothly release the rest of the clutch. If your car chatters while doing this your pressure plate, clutch plate and flywheel are glazed and need repair and / or replacement.

Just for fistful's benefit and to the best of my knowledge, "double clutching" is normally used to reduce speed without downshifting. You take or already have your foot off the gas and you depress the clutch pedal and release the the clutch which allows the engine revs to slow down. You then reengage the clutch and let the car slow down against the compression of the now slower moving engine.

Downshifting, there's another aspect that must also be mastered before man (or woman) hood is truly considered as having been achieved.

[wmenorr67]

What was fun with my VW is that there was no tach.  There were little tick marks on the speedoometer to show when you should shift.  However I never used the marks and shifted by sound.

[280plus]

I remember the tick marks! The old man had something like a '67 Beetle when I was a kid. Never drove one though.

[Sergeant Bob]

Just for fistful's benefit and to the best of my knowledge, "double clutching" is normally used to reduce speed without downshifting. You take or already have your foot off the gas and you depress the clutch pedal and release the the clutch which allows the engine revs to slow down. You then reengage the clutch and let the car slow down against the compression of the now slower moving engine.

Using your clutch as a brake is real tough on a clutch and not recommended by anyone I know.

The only reference I have ever heard for "double clutching" is in the shifting of non-synchronized transmissions, as in Huck Phinn's Jurassic Mack (that's a real man's truck) and other big trucks.
Although the last time I double clutched was over a million miles ago.

[Ben]

However I never used the marks and shifted by sound.

I've never owned a manual with a tach, tic marks or "shift now" lights. I've always done it by sound and feel (and in that old F100, my dad yelling at me, "shift now, you idiot, shift!!!)   

[Brad Johnson]

For fistful's benefit...

Double clutching means you release the clutch between gears to let the tranny shafts match speed.  It's a pain in the butt.  It's far easier to leave the clutch out of the equation and shift by varying engine speed.  That method works better when you have big components, straight-cut gears, and relatively low engine and driveline speeds.  Newer trannys with angle-milled or helical-cut gears and very high shaft speeds.  Getting these to cooperate in a clutchless shifting scenario can be a bit of a challenge.

Synchronizers eliminate the need for double clutching by performing the speed-match funtion internally.  The sychros contact as the gears slide over the shafts, spinning the shafts up or down to speed and allowing the gears to mesh cleanly.

Brad

[Ben]

And getting back to the thread title, Fistful can learn to shift an 18 wheeler, he still won't be a man though, until he finally watches "The Great Escape".   

[Matthew Carberry]

I realized many years ago, after watching TGE, that I would have had to run or row in that situation as I couldn't fly nor drive a motorcycle.  Heck, I can't even really ride (as opposed to sit on) a horse.

Now at least I can add motorcycle's to my list of getaway vehicles, though a semi might be a nice addition.

[Sergeant Bob]

And getting back to the thread title, Fistful can learn to shift an 18 wheeler, he still won't be a man though, until he finally watches "The Great Escape".   

And comes to Michigan and drives a 164,000 lb double 42 wheeler roll off and gets Foxit Reader for PDF's instead of that slow, bloated, intrusive Adobe crap.

[280plus]

Hmph, my bad, thankfully I had the disclaimer going...

I can't say as I've EVER used this technique but:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4002588575741675515

[Gewehr98]

Just for fistful's benefit and to the best of my knowledge, "double clutching" is normally used to reduce speed without downshifting.

Nope.  Double clutching is using the clutch pedal twice, one to get out of a given gear, then letting the engine RPM and transmission input shaft RPM match before selecting the next gear.  It was a necessity on the older "crash-box" trannies that didn't have syncromesh gearing. 

Slipping the clutch as a hill-holding technique is bad ju-ju, btw.  Smell that?   

[mfree]

My regimen:

Hill holding: Only for a moment. I'm off the clutch and on teh brake if I've got to stop longer than a half second.

Double clutching: It's matching engine RPM to the next higher or lower gear with the transmission in neutral and the clutch engaged.

Clutch braking: bad juju, that's running an engine up to matched RPM from idle using the clutch.

ENGINE braking: that's matching RPM during the downshift with the clutch disengaged so you don't slip the clutch any, but use compression to slow you down. Doesn't hurt the clutch.

Only slipping really wears or hurts a clutch. If you teach yourself ginger throttle control you can have the revs matched, up or down, in the space of time you have the clutch disengaged to shift. That's as smooth as it gets and your clutch will last forever. Trouble is, the lighter the rotating mass in teh engien is the harder this is to do since the engien responds much stronger to throttle input; but the heavier the rotating mass is the longer it takes to shift and have it happen smoothly without slipping the clutch.

Slippage creates heat through friction. Create enough heat to scorch the binders out of the clutch facing and you'll do several things. One, you make that gahdahful stench. Two, you weaken the heated layer of facing and it wears off that much faster (or with some, it hardens it and makes it slip even easier). Three, you may start leaving a layer of material on the flywheel surface. Some is normal, and as long as it's uniform it's good.... but if you heat a puck clutch and then leave it engaged to cool it won't be even.... you just glazed your clutch and it'll chatter. And if it doesn't chatter perceptibly it can chatter imperceptibly and you can wear out and/or break the springs in the pressure plate.

Leaving your foot on the clutch pedal is a killer too.... wears out the throwout bearing.

[280plus]

Sgt Bob is right about downshifting and using the engine/clutch as a brake DOES cause excessive wear and tear. I recall someone asking me whether I'd rather replace brakes every so often or the clutch instead. Worse than that though, it wastes gas. I do recall maybe I stopped doing it near the end of my clutch days but I was always a big downshifter and clutch braker. The only clutch I ever had trouble with was in that Mustang but that had a lot to do it having a lot of power and me learning on it. I think I did it twice while I owned it.

The clutch slippy thing on a hill becomes a very brief moment in time once you get the hang of it. Granted, holding it there for a few seconds will start to make things smell funny but the split second it takes to get to the gas and get going has little effect.

[Perd Hapley]

A stick will come in real handy when you get stuck on some idiot's queen size mattress

Getting stuck on some idiot's queen-size mattress?  You know, that seems to happen to a lot of women after a night of drinking, but so far I've not encountered the problem. 

 

[wmenorr67]

Fistful it happens to a lot of men also.

[Gewehr98]

You can compression (aka engine) brake without burning up the clutch, ya know... 

I've been doing it for about 30 years on all my trucks. 

Don's slip the clutch, period.  My dad had a rock in a sock when he was teaching me to drive the big old '60 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup.  "Get your foot off the clutch!"

To this day, I neither ride nor slip the clutch.  I have, however, replaced clutch disks, pressure plates, and throwout bearings in my sister's cars and my ex-wife's. 

Riding the clutch to me is a sin almost as bad as those old farts you see taking off from a stop sign or traffic light while riding the brake. You can tell who they are because they're accelerating and the brake lights are on, or there's a intermittent brake light activation as they're just going down the road.  It means they have one foot on the gas and one on the brake pedal.  Don't do that, Fistful - I'll have to hunt you down.    

[Sergeant Bob]

Fistful it happens to a lot of men also.

And sometimes a stick isn't enough, but don't worry, they're doing some amazing things with prosthetics these days!

[Perd Hapley]

It really is as easy as everyone says.  I bet you a dollar that in one week's time you'll agree.

OK, you've still got four days to make good on that, but it's not looking good.  Sirr-iously, I've been fighting this thing since Thursday night, and it's only getting slightly easier.  Some things just come more easily to some people than others.  I probably will have things ironed out by Friday, but I'll never say it was easy to learn.  It's been tough. 

On Sunday morning, I drove the wife's car.  It felt so much better to let Mr. Buick do all the work.   

[Matthew Carberry]

It really is as easy as everyone says.  I bet you a dollar that in one week's time you'll agree.

OK, you've still got four days to make good on that, but it's not looking good.  Sirr-iously, I've been fighting this thing since Thursday night, and it's only getting slightly easier.  Some things just come more easily to some people than others.  I probably will have things ironed out by Friday, but I'll never say it was easy to learn.  It's been tough. 

On Sunday morning, I drove the wife's car.  It felt so much better to let Mr. Buick do all the work.   

Try it with a little sauce in ya, booze makes everything easier...

[glockfan.45]

I learned to drive in my dads old chevy with a three on the tree. I have only had one automatic and frankly I hated it. When I bought my new Ranger I had to special order it since Ford didnt build any dealer stock with the 4.0L/5spd. The salesman thought I was crazy when I told him what I wanted.  Tried to teach my wife once and wont do that again. Shifting into 3rd while going 60 mph on a wet road was the end of the lesson.

[RadioFreeSeaLab]

You're not a man until you can go from first to fifth without touching the clutch -- shifting on RPM synchronization alone.

Did it in my 02 F-150.  I had to limp it home 15 miles when the clutch slave cylinder went out. 
My first car, a 1978 Volvo 240, was a stick.  I've had a few autos since then, but I prefer manuals.  My current car is a manual.

[280plus]

Yep, had the same problem with my AMC halfway from Hartford to Trenton and then back. The tough part was killing it to stop and then starting it in gear to go again. I got a few strange looks. You think I would have turned around when it went but noooooo, there was a girl in Jersey.