Real time energy consumption and smart meters

[Grandpa Shooter]

Our energy usage went from 643 kwh to 1113 kwh in one month.  I called the power company to inquire how that was possible when nearly everything in the house is gas operated except lights, fridge and 5 cf freezer which we already owned and operated.  The only answer I got was to change out the meter and have it tested.  $20 later and a visit from the company man and my meter is replaced.  I asked the guy how I can tell if something in the house is jumping up the usage when there is no readout at the meter.  (No spinning dial)  His answer was, "You can't"  There is an app available which can tell me usage history, but nothing available to show real time usage.  My answer to him was, "That sucks."  I never realized that with the smart meters they were cutting off a customer's way of viewing energy consumption.  I will spare you my real reaction to that.  Any of you have an answer as to how to isolate what might be the culprit if it is not the meter?

[lee n. field]

Put a few of these on various appliances: http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Put a few of these on various appliances: http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html.

I tried checking the price on these and came to a dead end saying address not found.  Any idea what those cost?

[Doggy Daddy]

I tried checking the price on these and came to a dead end saying address not found.  Any idea what those cost?

Take a look here https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=kill+a+watt+usage+meter&crid=2A7EEO3XO4ASB&sprefix=kill+a+wa%2Caps%2C252&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_3_9

[K Frame]

Do you have an older deep freeze or a refrigerator? If so, it could be failing and struggling to keep every cool and basically running constantly.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Do you have an older deep freeze or a refrigerator? If so, it could be failing and struggling to keep every cool and basically running constantly.

Fridge is around 7 years old and the small freezer is maybe 6 months old.  It does seem like I hear the fridge more often, but I am wearing my hearing aids every day now so it could just be I didn't hear it before.  Low level noises like that are below my threshold.  It was January 25 to February 25 consumption.  Last year was 843 kwh, last month 643 kwh and this bill 1113 kwh.  Just doesn't add up for me.

[WLJ]

They started replacing everyone's old manual read water meters with newer electronic ones in the neighborhood. All of a sudden every one's water bill jumped, in many cases doubled. With the old ones you could lift the cover and read the meter yourself and confirm the readings but not with the new ones, you just have to trust the water company

[Grandpa Shooter]

They started replacing everyone's old manual read water meters with newer electronic ones in the neighborhood. All of a sudden every one's water bill jumped, in many cases doubled. With the old ones you could lift the cover and read the meter yourself and confirm the readings but not with the new ones, you just have to trust the water company

Yeah right!

[Hawkmoon]

Have an electrician install a second meter socket somewhere between your primary meter and your breaker panel.

https://www.electrahealth.com/Analog-Electric-Meter--Watthour-Meter--Analog-Only-Electric-Utility-Meter_p_51.html

https://www.go-usg.com/p-80-dem-analog-electric-meter.aspx

[230RN]

(
If you can glom onto one of the old eddy current meters and mount it up on a regular table lamp base, they apparently sell for a pretty penny.

   

I got one for free back in the 80s that came out of a house on Pine Street in Boulder and always wanted to do that just for grins.  The power company had dozens of them in their meter shop in the Valmont power plant for free.

I gave mine to Son1 and I think he mounted it up all pretty.
)

[Hawkmoon]

I should get one of those analog meters and mount it up to a box I can put on the circuit that runs my home office computer and laser printer, just to see how much I'm using.

What do the backs of those things look like?

[Nick1911]

I've got a meter kicking around that has lugs on the front, much like the one in 230RN's picture.  It was left in this house among other debris by the previous owner.

I suspect mine was for a temporary power arrangement - used during construction.  It is rated for three wire 240v power, at only 15 amps.

I kept it, although I have no clue what I'll ever do with it.  Seemed a shame to throw it away.

[230RN]

Hawkmoon:
Well, they were intended to mount on a flat surface, but I never did that.  I hooked up male and female line cords to it so I could do that for various appliances.  (I tried to keep the meter more or less vertical.)  IIRC, the connections were all in the front and covered with a sealed cover in actual use on a house.  The wire seal can be seen dangling down in the above image.

Nowadays the Kill-O-Watt device does that for you and you don't have to keep it vertical since in the K-O-W device, the electrons don't care which way is up.

Nick 1911:

It's been a long time, but IIRC there were connections suitable for either voltage.  Strikes me, subject to better knowledge, you could run it on 110VAC on only one leg of that meter.

[kgbsquirrel]

They started replacing everyone's old manual read water meters with newer electronic ones in the neighborhood. All of a sudden every one's water bill jumped, in many cases doubled. With the old ones you could lift the cover and read the meter yourself and confirm the readings but not with the new ones, you just have to trust the water company

Well that isn't suspicious at all.

[Grandpa Shooter]

With the help of a friend, I think we solved the kwh mystery.  My wife's ambucamper is a 7.3 IDI diesel and needs to be kept plugged in during cold weather to keep the diesel fuel from gelling.  Seems she plugged it in for a month and never thought to unplug it when the temp went up, or when the cold spell was over.  I know nothing about block heaters so didn't have a clue they drew that kind of power.  Why they don't have a built in thermostat like a waterline heat tape is beyond me.  But anyway, mystery solved, lesson learned.

[K Frame]

AH! Yep, a block heater will certainly do it! The one on my Mother's F250 super duty diesel drew 400 watts an hour when it was plugged in and actually heating.

Hum... wait, I think the block heater on my Subaru Outback was 400 watts... I think the one on Mom's F250, which also included a battery warmer, was something like 650-700 watts.

Might be worth investing in a temperature triggered switch box.

[Nick1911]

I'm glad you found it.  Electrical heating is very energy intensive, I'm not surprised at all in your meter jump from that. Your increased usage equals about 650 watts of extra usage around the clock, all month long.

[charby]

Glad you found it.

I was just looking at my electric portion of the utility bill, I have a forced air NG furance, but it was sub zero for 136 hours straight in February. My electric was up a bit from the furnace blower running a lot more and couple space heaters. Probably extra lighting due to all the curtains being closed to conserve heat.

[K Frame]

We were talking about the furnace blower fans a few months ago here. Mine has been on 24x7x365 pretty much for the last 20 years. It helps keep temperatures even between the floors in the house and it also helps clean the air (a big consideration with a huge fur shedding beast in the house... as well as Seren...)

I didn't realize how much energy the fans would chew up. I considered turning the fan back to demand only for the winter, but then my basement wouldn't have gotten any heat at all from the pellet stove (main air intake is in the living room near the stove), so I left it run. I may give that a try for a month or two either this spring or in the fall between when I need heat and AC to see if it makes a difference.

[Grandpa Shooter]

We were talking about the furnace blower fans a few months ago here. Mine has been on 24x7x365 pretty much for the last 20 years. It helps keep temperatures even between the floors in the house and it also helps clean the air (a big consideration with a huge fur shedding beast in the house... as well as Seren...)

I didn't realize how much energy the fans would chew up. I considered turning the fan back to demand only for the winter, but then my basement wouldn't have gotten any heat at all from the pellet stove (main air intake is in the living room near the stove), so I left it run. I may give that a try for a month or two either this spring or in the fall between when I need heat and AC to see if it makes a difference.

One of the things I did after the first of the year was to install two natural gas space heaters to replace the 20 year old furnace, since I know how much juice those old furnaces suck up.  I was quoted $7,000+ to replace it and declined.  I expected the electric bill to go down and was shocked it shot up.  The block heater was the answer and I will look into a thermostatically controlled circuit if she still has it next winter.  I am trying to minimize all our bills if I can, to make us more flexible and less dependent.

[K Frame]

When I got my pellet stove the other year I set the thermostat to 60. I'm pretty sure the only time the heat pump came on this year or last year was during my Christmas vacation with friends. I was away for the better part of 2 weeks each year.

I've essentially cut my winter electric bill in half (or more) by heating with the pellet stove, enough that the savings on electric more that pays for my winter's pellets.

[WLJ]

Turned out the new water meters can be manually read, Pulled the main cover off and discovered another cover hiding an old style meter readout in the hole.