Author Topic: Putin's spiral  (Read 2535 times)

Brad Johnson

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Putin's spiral
« on: March 17, 2022, 12:32:31 PM »
Starting a thread separate from War in Eastern Europe, this one specific to Putin personally and his spiral into radical ultra-nationalism with a hint of genocide.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/putins-inhumanity-ukraine-self-purification-traitors

Looks to be a not-so-thinly veiled threat of elimination for dissenters with presumption that "Elimination" = "Gulag or Dead".

Brad
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Jim147

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2022, 12:50:55 PM »
Everyone that doesn't agree with him is a nazi and must be destroyed.

This will end well.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

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WLJ

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2022, 12:53:52 PM »
Everyone that doesn't agree with him is a nazi and must be destroyed.

This will end well.

So Putin is ANTIFA?
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Fly320s

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2022, 01:54:06 PM »
Maybe Putin has ALS and he wants to go down swinging, just like James Yeager.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

Angel Eyes

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2022, 01:56:35 PM »
Maybe Putin has ALS and he wants to go down swinging, just like James Yeager.

Yeager vs. Putin in a duel to the death.  On pay per view.
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WLJ

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2022, 01:58:41 PM »
Maybe Putin has ALS and he wants to go down swinging, just like James Yeager.

There are rumors he has terminal cancer. Some are saying that not only explains his pale and puffy look lately but also why he sits so far away from everyone else since the treatments leave him extremely vulnerable to COVID.

Note rumors.
I'm not putting much stock into it myself but that's the rumor floating around.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2022, 02:28:51 PM »
There are rumors he has terminal cancer. Some are saying that not only explains his pale and puffy look lately but also why he sits so far away from everyone else since the treatments leave him extremely vulnerable to COVID.

Note rumors.
I'm not putting much stock into it myself but that's the rumor floating around.

I figure more likely he's boozing it up pretty heavy. Puffy and pale is also the look of chronic alcohol abuse.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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MechAg94

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2022, 04:07:45 PM »
Is the failure of Russia to make a quick war of this a result of Putin's leadership or is Russia just weaker than everyone thought? 

They should have been able to roll into Ukraine pretty fast.  If Russia is weaker, will that mess up the current balance of power leading to more warfare in that area of the world?  If Putin has some other problems, that could be worse.
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Fly320s

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2022, 04:19:04 PM »
I think the Russian military is not as good as it was once, or possibly they were never as good as they thought they were.
Islamic sex dolls.  Do they blow themselves up?

HankB

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2022, 04:20:46 PM »
Is the failure of Russia to make a quick war of this a result of Putin's leadership or is Russia just weaker than everyone thought? 

They should have been able to roll into Ukraine pretty fast.  If Russia is weaker, will that mess up the current balance of power leading to more warfare in that area of the world?  If Putin has some other problems, that could be worse.
Russia spent the better part of a month telegraphing their invasion, against an opponent with similar hardware (sprinkled with Western tech) that is fully cognizant of Russian military doctrine. I'm not terribly surprised that things didn't go as easily as Putin expected . . . but I'm also surprised at how feisty the Ukrainians are proving to be.

I wonder how much micromanagement Putin is trying to exert on military operations - to look back at history, some people say Hitler was the Allies' best general in the last couple of years of WWII in Europe. Maybe there's something similar going on here?
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2022, 04:21:30 PM »
It's already begun.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/top-russian-general-detained-putin-traitors-ukraine-invasion

Odds on him suffering a "brain hemorrhage" sometime soon?

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

WLJ

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2022, 04:25:07 PM »
Don't worry
If Steiner attacks everything will be all right
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us".
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2022, 06:11:03 PM »
I think the Russian military is not as good as it was once, or possibly they were never as good as they thought they were.

My admittedly outdated experience with Soviet naval forces from the '80s and early '90s tells me they didn't live up to the reputation.

Quote
Is the failure of Russia to make a quick war of this a result of Putin's leadership or is Russia just weaker than everyone thought?

Those aren't mutually exclusive conditions.


My opinion/expectation is that Putin is going to get desperate in the near future and do something that drags us into a shooting conflict. I am not optimistic about the outcome.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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AJ Dual

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2022, 11:10:59 AM »
My opinion/expectation is that Putin is going to get desperate in the near future and do something that drags us into a shooting conflict. I am not optimistic about the outcome.

I don't know if Putin even has the resources to do something stupid to drag us in.

About 75% or more of their deployable forces are in Ukraine already. And their logistics problems are legion, that's clear even through the fog of anecdotal tweets and propaganda. Further intel reports are saying they've used up most of their cruise missiles and SRBM's.

There's lots of speculation about "good stuff" held in reserve, more air power etc. but it's good to wonder if Russia has the same logistical problems there too. Or if they simply can't absorb any combat losses with more expensive assets.

Calls have gone out trying to get mercenaries from Syria, and Russian corporate military groups.  But deploying them, feeding them, arming them... they're going to have the exact same problems they've got keeping their existing troops going. And I suspect that even if they actually get a significant number of warm bodies from Syria, the majority of them are going to desert at the first chance, because they all just signed up to get the hell out of Syria, and are hoping to be put within walking distance of the EU to immigrate illegally or on some kind of sanctuary status.

There's weird stuff going on in Belarus, explosions, a complete shutdown of all air travel, and reports of military units refusing to participate in Ukraine.

The advance seems stalled, and if Ukrainian reports are to be believed, they've pushed back and retaken some towns.

I guess there's chem and bioweapons, but it seems like Russia already lacks enough of the conventional hardware that would be used to deploy it. 

I think Putin is really in a corner here. The normal pattern of a dictator being surrounded by yes-men has really blinded him to the point he thought he could pull off this invasion. Firing/arresting the head of the FSB, and sacking generals (aside from the several KIA, because command/comms is so bad, they have to lead from the front) is a good sign it's coming apart. But even then, he may not have a full picture of how badly their military is bogged down.

I do think the one thing that Putin may have done well is insulate himself from any coup/assassination attempt, the one thing his days in the KGB might have prepared him for. He plays up his time there, but he was always more of a middle-manager/clerk than an actual "operative". But that kind of bureaucratic ability might be what's ultimately needed to keep the organization under him from acting against him. Analysis of the oligarchs and military show no real links or alternate power-structure that could act against him in a coup, yet.

So I think he's done as their leader, but I think it'll be a slow process to get rolling. In Soviet times when someone was deposed or eliminated, everyone could kind of rationalize what they were doing "For Communism, for the Revolution..." etc. Now they've just got a kleptocratic authoritarian state to "save". Now you've just got a bunch of disparate groups and people who don't know who they can trust, and all afraid to stick their neck out as the first to make a move.

I promise not to duck.

HankB

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2022, 11:39:37 AM »
There was a report yesterday that Sergey Lavarov, Putin's foreign minister, was on the way to a meeting with the Chicoms when his plane was abruptly recalled and turned around in mid-air to return to Mother Russia.

No info as to why, but much speculation, ranging from a purge of Lavarov to a break with the CCP, and everything else in between. Nobody "official" seems to be saying anything yet.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2022, 03:42:32 PM by HankB »
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French G.

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2022, 12:01:22 PM »
Russia has an aging leader in questionable health who came to power in questionable ways and the best way to keep that power is more war and repress anyone at home who dissents as a traitor. At least we are not like that.   [popcorn]

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I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

grampster

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2022, 12:03:27 PM »
As an aside, Biden mouthing off and threatening China is actually another example of his and his puppeteers stupidity.  The American warmongering oligarchs and the Ds and RINO's will be the death of us. :facepalm:
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2022, 01:08:20 PM »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Nick1911

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2022, 02:05:30 PM »
As an aside, Biden mouthing off and threatening China is actually another example of his and his puppeteers stupidity.  The American warmongering oligarchs and the Ds and RINO's will be the death of us. :facepalm:

I won't assume stupidity.

I suspect that the administration would rather like at a minimum a destabilized world economic situation, and at a maximum a hot war with someone.  Economic destabilization would allow the administration to scapegoat the high inflation and domestic economic issues we're having.  A hot war would let them have moral high ground, clamming we should endure the pain for democracy and freedom while everyone's quality of life declines.

MechAg94

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2022, 03:48:47 PM »
There was a report yesterday that Sergey Lavarov, Putin's foreign minister, was on the way to a meeting with the Chicoms when his plane was abruptly recalled and turned around in mid-air to return to Mother Russia.

No info as to why, but much speculation, ranging from a purge of Lavarov to a break with the CCP, and everything else in between. Nobody "official" seems to be saying anything yet.
I heard talk they were trying to get support from the CCP.  I imagine anything from the CCP will come at a cost. 

“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2022, 03:52:35 PM »
My admittedly outdated experience with Soviet naval forces from the '80s and early '90s tells me they didn't live up to the reputation.

Those aren't mutually exclusive conditions.


My opinion/expectation is that Putin is going to get desperate in the near future and do something that drags us into a shooting conflict. I am not optimistic about the outcome.
I agree.   The effects of crony corruption in the system is going to have its effect.  There may have been money to stockpile weapons and supplies which never got bought or were not maintained.  All sort of things like that could happen in a 1000 different ways. 

I heard someone mention that Putin himself was accused of this when he was younger.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

WLJ

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2022, 03:53:02 PM »
I heard talk they were trying to get support from the CCP.  I imagine anything from the CCP will come at a cost.

Also reports of Russia pulling forces from the East to send to Ukraine. Could be connected the China rumors.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2022, 10:56:02 AM »
This popped up in my news feed. Putin not looking so hot during a meeting.

https://twitter.com/TSJPhillips/status/1517217288814055425

To me it looks like he's trying not to throw up the entire time. Shallow breathing, constant swallowing, and constantly fidgeting. That plus a general appearance of puffiness and being slumped down in his chair. He's not in good health.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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WLJ

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2022, 11:06:19 AM »
This popped up in my news feed. Putin not looking so hot during a meeting.

https://twitter.com/TSJPhillips/status/1517217288814055425

To me it looks like he's trying not to throw up the entire time. Shallow breathing, constant swallowing, and constantly fidgeting. That plus a general appearance of puffiness and being slumped down in his chair. He's not in good health

Brad

I saw a photo of that event a day or two ago and thought he didn't look well but thought it could have been taken while he was shifting in his chair which would make anyone look sick. This the first time I've seen a video and yep, he looks and acts very sick. Makes me wonder if the rumors of cancer are true. Either that or he's suffering from one heck of hangover  :P
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Ben

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Re: Putin's spiral
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2022, 11:12:38 AM »
I saw that yesterday and thought the same thing. He's looking very unwell.
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