Author Topic: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives  (Read 371 times)

BobR

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Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« on: January 20, 2023, 01:06:09 PM »
My main take away is one I have held for quite a while, the Police aren't really your friends and will cover up and lie at the drop of a hat.


This link has a video from inside the dwelling.

https://ncrenegade.com/firing-squad-at-5-am/

While this link has the press version of same event.

https://wlos.com/news/local/swat-team-members-shoot-man-who-confronted-officers-in-murphy-nc-sheriff-says-cherokee-bear-paw-road-jason-harley-kloepfer


But then again the video is only so long, we have no idea what happened prior to the beginning of it.

Still, you can color me just a tad bit distrustful.

bob

eta: When confronted by armed LEO make absolutely sure your hands are empty and in view.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2023, 05:17:37 PM »
Trial by SWAT team.
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dogmush

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2023, 05:31:37 PM »
*expletive deleted*ck every one of those cops, the SWAT team commander, whomever decided they had to charge the guy they shot, and especially whatever government lickspittle wrote that press release. 

I can't politely type what should happen to everyone involved.

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2023, 06:16:40 PM »


eta: When confronted by armed LEO make absolutely sure your hands are empty and in view.

Poor sleepy guy picked up the weird robot-thing in his house, and shuffled to the door and held it in his hands (while raising hands above his head).

Officer McOpportunist shoots him (poorly) several times: "he had a weapon in his hands."

Take-away:  Don't fill your hands with strange robots when you're answering a bullhorn at the door.

Even better, don't answer the bullhorn at the door.  Looks like a good way to get shot, even when pretty clearly complying.  Call the police on the rabblerousers on your lawn.
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MechAg94

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2023, 10:17:55 PM »
*expletive deleted*ck every one of those cops, the SWAT team commander, whomever decided they had to charge the guy they shot, and especially whatever government lickspittle wrote that press release. 

I can't politely type what should happen to everyone involved.
After first viewing, I am in agreement with you.  A bunch of trigger happy cops.

The article said nothing about whether they found out if the original call was accurate or who fired shots. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

MechAg94

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2023, 10:24:35 PM »
Poor sleepy guy picked up the weird robot-thing in his house, and shuffled to the door and held it in his hands (while raising hands above his head).

Officer McOpportunist shoots him (poorly) several times: "he had a weapon in his hands."

Take-away:  Don't fill your hands with strange robots when you're answering a bullhorn at the door.

Even better, don't answer the bullhorn at the door.  Looks like a good way to get shot, even when pretty clearly complying.  Call the police on the rabblerousers on your lawn.

Yeah, Your hands could be empty.  You have no control over whether these cops think they see something or not. 

IMO, when a bunch of armored up officers are surrounding the house, and have rifles ready and leveled along with tactical lights blinding everyone, there is really no reason they need to treat "something in his hands" as a reason to mow people down.  I get the impression all these officers are shown hours of video of bad guys shooting at police and it makes them more trigger happy than they need to be. 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2023, 05:10:24 PM by MechAg94 »
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griz

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2023, 11:06:29 PM »
You can hear on the video "come out with your hands up", just before he went out with his hands up and got shot.  Sooner or later the various law enforcement folks need to realize that if your training is to shoot people who are complying with your instructions, your training is the problem.

Separately, presumably the camera robot means there was somebody watching the view and would have seen that the guy picked it up.  Why wasn't that fact passed along before he was shot?
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2023, 11:10:54 PM »
Separately, presumably the camera robot means there was somebody watching the view and would have seen that the guy picked it up.  Why wasn't that fact passed along before he was shot?

I was wondering the same thing.
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WLJ

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2023, 11:26:52 PM »
That was painful to watch
Not as painful as it was for him though.
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HankB

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2023, 07:07:33 AM »
Yeah, Your hands could be empty.  You have no control over whether these cops think later say they see saw something or not. 

FIFY
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MechAg94

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2023, 05:12:57 PM »
You can hear on the video "come out with your hands up", just before he went out with his hands up and got shot.  Sooner or later the various law enforcement folks need to realize that if your training is to shoot people who are complying with your instructions, your training is the problem.

Separately, presumably the camera robot means there was somebody watching the view and would have seen that the guy picked it up.  Why wasn't that fact passed along before he was shot?
At the least, communicate that the guy did not have a gun. 

Of course, they shot so fast, I wonder the camera view was even used.

Another question:  if he had come out of the bedroom with a pistol or rifle, would they have started shooting through the trailer?
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MechAg94

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2023, 10:37:16 PM »
'I've been shot!': Shocking moment North Carolina police shoot a disabled man who was unarmed and complying with their orders
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11664527/Ive-shot-Shocking-moment-shows-North-Carolina-police-shooting-unarmed-disabled-man.html

Looks like the this story might get more legs.  The officers involved deserve it.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2023, 11:31:10 PM »
Quote
He was charged with Communicating Threats and Resist, Obstruct and Delay.

It's unfortunate for the police that the security video has audio, because it proves conclusively that the charges are complete fabrications.
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MechAg94

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2023, 09:15:07 AM »
It's unfortunate for the police that the security video has audio, because it proves conclusively that the charges are complete fabrications.
Even if it did not, it shows there were a few seconds between him stepping out of the door and the shooting.  They had plenty of time (and light) to see that his hands were up and that was not a gun in his hand.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2023, 09:44:17 AM by MechAg94 »
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Ben

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2023, 09:34:47 AM »
I an attempt to be unbiased, I want to lay some small percentage of responsibility on the victim  for having something in his hand that could be mistaken for a gun. However, thinking about it, I would be more inclined to do so if this had happened in the middle of the day. Instead, as usual, the cops showed up at zero dark thirty as part of disorienting their target to give themselves an advantage.

Then I think about what I would likely do for the same disturbance at zero dark thirty. As I get older, I don't wake up as alert as I used to to a bump in the night. I could easily see myself being somewhat discombobulated by cops who are in fact TRYING to discombobulate me so that they can "get home safe at the end of the shift".

As I've said a million times before, I have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to a couple of boxes of donuts so that uniformed (in other than battle rattle) cops can show up at a place and get on the bullhorn and wait things out to ensure the person they're after has a chance to calm down (or just fully wake up, or hey, just do it during daylight) and that they in fact have the right address.
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MechAg94

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2023, 09:48:32 AM »
One other question:  I didn't listen to the video, but was the camera robot capable to talking to the guy?  How tough would it be to set up a 2 way speaker connection on the robot and start a conversation with the guy leading to either him coming out or the police going in. 

As you said, there is no reason to get in a hurry.  All those guys probably went through at least a couple hours of prep getting set up for this and the aftermath is going to take at least as long whether they shoot or not.
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cordex

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2023, 09:55:39 AM »
One other question:  I didn't listen to the video, but was the camera robot capable to talking to the guy?  How tough would it be to set up a 2 way speaker connection on the robot and start a conversation with the guy leading to either him coming out or the police going in. 
That looks like a whole lot newer, smaller, and also probably cheaper SWAT robot than the one I've played with.  The one I've interacted with does have two way audio, but the quality is terrible and I wouldn't want to count on it for anything serious.  Serious like clearly communicating in a life or death situation.  You know, like exactly what it is built for.

As you said, there is no reason to get in a hurry.  All those guys probably went through at least a couple hours of prep getting set up for this and the aftermath is going to take at least as long whether they shoot or not.
The aftermath of a shooting is way longer.

The shooting looks terrible and unprofessional from this perspective.  I suppose something else might come out to change my perspective but it is hard to imagine what that could possibly be.

dogmush

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2023, 10:25:11 AM »
As I've said a million times before, I have no problem with some of my tax dollars going to a couple of boxes of donuts so that uniformed (in other than battle rattle) cops can show up at a place and get on the bullhorn and wait things out to ensure the person they're after has a chance to calm down (or just fully wake up, or hey, just do it during daylight) and that they in fact have the right address.


As you said, there is no reason to get in a hurry.  All those guys probably went through at least a couple hours of prep getting set up for this and the aftermath is going to take at least as long whether they shoot or not.

Those are just more points in the "F the Police" column for this one.

It's not in the linked ABC article (Which is basically just the police press release), but the NC Renegade and Daily Mail articles both have a timeline:

There was a 911 call aprox 2300 on 12 December about gunfire in the area.  The responded to the trailer, decided that this guy was the shooter, and he may have a hostage, sent for a SWAT team and a warrant, then got that their ducks in a row 6 hours later to shoot this guy at 0500 on 13 December.  Nowhere in that whole 6 hours did ANYONE say "Hey, it looks like everyone is asleep in that trailer, have we tried knocking?".

They can't have been that concerned about the hypothetical hostage, because they fired up lights, tossed a robot in, and used a bullhorn. 





230RN

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2023, 07:45:07 PM »
I want to know who the Judge was.

I realize Judges have to rely on the sworn statements of the LEOs, but they should remember that at that point the "statements" are really just allegations and should press the LEOs for firmer details.

I think the Judiciary should be a lot more cautious about rubber-stamping warrants.

The "checks and balances" concept seems to be missing in so many of these search warrant incidents.

There's no checking, there's no balancing, there's just collusion, in my opinion.  They're all on the same side.

Hence:  "Who was the Judge?"

Terry, 230RN

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2023, 08:39:46 PM »
I want to know who the Judge was.

I realize Judges have to rely on the sworn statements of the LEOs, but they should remember that at that point the "statements" are really just allegations and should press the LEOs for firmer details.

I think the Judiciary should be a lot more cautious about rubber-stamping warrants.

The "checks and balances" concept seems to be missing in so many of these search warrant incidents.

There's no checking, there's no balancing, there's just collusion, in my opinion.  They're all on the same side.

Hence:  "Who was the Judge?"

Terry, 230RN

Cop: Judge Smith, we need a warrant for some bad dude.
Judge: Hey there Jim Bob, how's your mama doing? I was real sorry to hear about your daddy's ole coon dog, me an him treed a powerful lot o' coons with that ole dog. well, here's your warrant, y'all be careful now, hear.
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230RN

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Re: Police Shooting in NC. Different perspectives
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2023, 08:45:27 PM »
Cop: Judge Smith, we need a warrant for some bad dude.
Judge: Hey there Jim Bob, how's your mama doing? I was real sorry to hear about your daddy's ole coon dog, me an him treed a powerful lot o' coons with that ole dog. well, here's your warrant, y'all be careful now, hear.

ayup i wush i sed that