Dementia in the Federal prison system

[gunsmith]

  "I forgot armed robbery was illegal"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXmQW_aqBks
 

[230RN]

I don't necessarily disagree that it's a bad idea to encourage the .gov to encourage people to off themselves, but on the other hand it's kinda the ultimate proof you are not free amd are owned by the .gov that you can't even leave this world on your own terms.

I suspect, but expect argument, that's kind of a "blue law," one baed on religious factors:  "your body is a temple of the Lord, and His property," and you cannot harm yourself based on that. (ETA Pb brushed on that.)

I further speculate that's part of the reason for the "suicide by cop" phenomenon.

Heck with that.  If I’m going to off myself it’s not going to be in some doctors office.  And it won’t be at home.  I’ll go where I can do it privately, and then emts or similar can collect me later.  A few hours or several months later, depending on the ick factor expected.

I started to think about (not ideation) suicide by gun recently because a second degree relative killed himself by gun in his garage, supposedly to minimize the mess and danger of a bullet going through walls to unknown places:

Let's admit it, firearms are pretty effective and certainly fast if done "right."<ahem>

I figure the least icky way to do it by firearm to avoid friends or relatives discovering the body, would be sitting against the brick wall of a hospital building, with a stout black plastic garbage bag over yourself, and calling the emergency room just before the act so that medicos, who are used to dealing with messes, will discover you pretty quick, and if any passers-by or witnesses discovered your action, the big plastic bag would shield the mess from view.

As I say, my second degree relative prompted my thinking about this and I was toying with the idea of basing a short story on it.  Then I decided it wasn't my bailiwick and dropped the idea.  Despite my flight of imagination above, I just ain't that morbid.

Terry, 230RN

[Northwoods]

Oh yeah, I don’t plan on doing anything.  In 30-40 years, if I develop dementia that might change.

[MillCreek]

^^^I think a tank of nitrogen, a valve, a hose, and a mask would do the trick.

[230RN]

^^^I think a tank of nitrogen, a valve, a hose, and a mask would do the trick.

Probably, and that's been mentioned before, but where are you going to get a tank of nitrogen? I wonder if a small lecture bottle would contain enough for the job. ? ? ? You'd want to be 110% certain because if you fail, you face the possibility of being committed for being a danger to yourself.  Hmmmm.

I guess argon would work in a similar way, and I that's readily available at welder's supplies.  <grin> But argon has radon in it, and that might kill you. <grin>

Triggering my thoughts, I wonder if the effluent N₂ from medical and portable oxygen generators/separators could supply enough "pure" nitrogen.  Hmmm.

Might form the basis for a story, but once again, despite my stimulated imaginings, I'm not morbid enough to write one.

One thing about potentially pursuing these complex methods is the activity and thinking involved in implementing them would probably distract one from the urge to do the actual act.  Hmmmm.

I'm also wondering about any Board rules on recommending illegal acts. I don't think so, but.... hmmm.

I'm not signing this one so nobody will know who posted it.

[dogmush]

You can get Nitrogen at any decent welding supply store as well.  Some TIG processes use it.

Also restaurant supply stores as some of the fancy beer and or coffee places use nitrogen to push the drinks. 


Personally, I think I'd scrape together enough cash for a used Cessna and head out to sea.  See if I can exceed a 152's Vne in a dive. 

[MillCreek]

In my homebrewing days, we used to get cylinders of 'beer gas' to drive the taps.  You could buy different mixes depending on the type of beer, but far and away the most popular mix in Seattle was 25% carbon dioxide and 75% nitrogen.  The distributors called this 'Guinness Gas' since it was used by Guinness taps in the UK and it also worked well for stouts, porters, and heavier IPAs.

[230RN]

You can get Nitrogen at any decent welding supply store as well.  Some TIG processes use it.

Also restaurant supply stores as some of the fancy beer and or coffee places use nitrogen to push the drinks. 

Personally, I think I'd scrape together enough cash for a used Cessna and head out to sea.  See if I can exceed a 152's Vne in a dive. 

I wasn't aware of thet.  I thought nitrogen was too reactive to use in an arc.  It's been a very long time since I knew anything about arc welding, so thanks for the addition.

And think of the trouble you'd cause what with search and rescue attempts and recovery of plane parts for the inevitable investigation of the crash.

It's like "suicide by cop."  Think of the anguish of the poor cop for killing you.  Nah.  keep it as "clean" as possible.

In my homebrewing days, we used to get cylinders of 'beer gas' to drive the taps.  You could buy different mixes depending on the type of beer, but far and away the most popular mix in Seattle was 25% carbon dioxide and 75% nitrogen.  The distributors called this 'Guinness Gas' since it was used by Guinness taps in the UK and it also worked well for stouts, porters, and heavier IPAs.

Assuming you were talking about nitrogen availability for the suicide process, wouldn't using the 25% CO₂ mixture obviate the effect of using nitrogen?  My understanding (corrections welcome) is that using pure nitrogen allowed the CO₂ buildup in the blood to be removed, and it was the CO₂ buildup which made you start needing air.  Pure-ish N₂ allowed the CO₂ to be removed, and this is why animals are put to sleep without discomfort by immersing them in a pure N₂ atmosphere.  I would guess a 25% mix of CO₂ would not do the trick.

Yes?  No?

Corrections welcome. 

Terry, 230RN

[Nick1911]

TIG on copper will work with nitrogen.  I tried it once, and found it satisfactory.  Terry is correct that it is too reactive for most welding uses.

I'll note that we used nitrogen as a purge gas in HVAC.  I've found it readily available at my gas supplier.  40cf is a common size for HVAC

[JTHunter]

However, God knows better than me.  We aren't supposed to live life under our own terms, though indeed God lets us to this if we wish for the most part.  With free will there are consequences, both good and bad, both in this life and after death.

As you say, there has to be a reason.
Around 1970, I rear-ended a car on my motorcycle and got thrown onto the car's trunk lid.  No serious injuries.
In '73, I went sideways into a 4-door P/U that pulled out in front of me and broke my left leg just above the ankle.  I could have been thrown over the truck's bed and, as I wasn't wearing a helmet having just come from a job interview, - - -.
In '79, I was touring some wineries in Missouri and rounded a sharp curve - and ran into a patch of gravel on the pavement.  The bike and I went "over the high side" into a 5' deep ditch.  I was thrown over the handlebars and face first into the muddy bottom.  A sheriff's deputy stopped to help me get the mirrors and fork straightened up enough to drive home, then said something ominous.  In listening to "how" I face-planted, he said I was lucky in that my chin was driven down into my breastbone without twisting my neck.
Finally, going to work in St. Louis on a November morning in 1982, I hit a bad patch of concrete on what is now I-64.  A 100' long slab had sagged in the middle, cracked, and raised the leading edge and inch and opened an inch gap as well.  I hit that and the handlebars were ripped from my hands.
I was more mad than scared and thought "Aw S#@T !  I'm gonna lose it !"  Bike and I went down on the left side and, like a kid rolling down a hillside, I tucked my elbows in tight with my fists under my chin (open chin helmet) and started rolling.  First my head was towards the center guardrail, then I was skidding on my back head-first down the highway, then I start rolling again but with my FEET to the guardrail.  Rolled about 200' and walked away with just some pavement rash on my left forearm.
The bolt on the left top side of the fork had punctured the gas tank with a half-inch hole and the left turn signal was scraping the pavement like a 4th of July sparkler.  Why the fumes from the tank didn't explode is beyond me.
Now, in my late 60s, with arthritis from the skull down, both hands, peripheral neuropathy in the right, and walking like a Chinese coolie with a heavy yoke, life's a "female dog".  I take multiple NSAIDs daily with only slight relief, so I am no longer "living', just "existing" and I have to wonder "WHY".

[230RN]

I think our Skybuddy was trying to tell you to stay the hell off two-wheelers.  I finally took that lesson to heart after three (3, count 'em) serious two-wheeler (one motorcycle, two bicycles)  bouts with the gravity-pavement tag team.  Two with helmets, one without.

Give me a dime  and I'll show you my bicycle clavicle.

Terry, 230RN

[MillCreek]

I think our Skybuddy was trying to tell you to stay the hell off two-wheelers.  I finally took that lesson to heart after three (3, count 'em) serious two-wheeler bouts with the gravity-pavement team.  Two with helmets one without.

My orthopedist said the very same thing after the road bicycle accident in 1996 (broken left hip) followed by the motorcycle accident in 2023 (concussion, five broken ribs and a broken clavicle).

[zxcvbob]

In my homebrewing days, we used to get cylinders of 'beer gas' to drive the taps.  You could buy different mixes depending on the type of beer, but far and away the most popular mix in Seattle was 25% carbon dioxide and 75% nitrogen.  The distributors called this 'Guinness Gas' since it was used by Guinness taps in the UK and it also worked well for stouts, porters, and heavier IPAs.

No!  Beer gas has way too much CO2, unless you just want a painful panicked death.  You want industrial or better N2 or argon.  Helium would also probably work.

[RoadKingLarry]

My orthopedist said the very same thing after the road bicycle accident in 1996 (broken left hip) followed by the motorcycle accident in 2023 (concussion, five broken ribs and a broken clavicle).

I may have missed the update, did you get any kind of favorable resolution from that?

[MillCreek]

I may have missed the update, did you get any kind of favorable resolution from that?

Still in process. It has been four months and I still don't have all the medical bills yet.  You would think people would be more eager to get paid.

[230RN]

No!  Beer gas has way too much CO2, unless you just want a painful panicked death.  You want industrial or better N2 or argon.  Helium would also probably work.

I remarked on that already but I figured MillCreek was just mentioning that 25% for information purposes, but i waSn't sure.

I didn't know about your accident either... you must be still recovering from all that.

Take the lesson from either your ortho or the Skybuddy to lay off the two wheelers.

I didn't look it up for motorcycles, but for bicycles,

https://www.cpsc.gov › Newsroom › News-Releases › 2021 › New-CDC-Report-Finds-More-Adults-Are-Dying-from-Bicycle-Related-Accidents-CPSC-Says-it-Highlights-the-Importance-of-Helmets
New CDC Report Finds More Adults Are Dying from Bicycle-Related ... - CPSC
Bicycle-related deaths increased between 2009 and 2018, primarily among adults. (NHTSA data) There were nearly 597,000 bicycle-related traumatic brain injuries treated in hospital emergency departments (ED) in the United States.

They ought to register them things.  That should solve the problem.

Terry, 230RN

[lee n. field]

Still in process. It has been four months and I still don't have all the medical bills yet.  You would think people would be more eager to get paid.

It's funny money.

Detailed bill for my wife's ambulance ride a couple months ago (132 miles one way), which was basically just transportation, was over $7K.  $6K was immediately whacked for some vague reason.  I ended up paying a bit less than $300.

Funny money.

[230RN]

...

[Nick1911]

You know what's kinda jacked up?  As a grown man with a good job and health insurance, I still find myself fairly trepidatious about going to the ER or really even to a hospital due to all the uncertainly about how badly I'm going to get fiscally screwed.

I passed out once in the living room - my wife drove me to the hospital because we didn't know how much the ambulance ride was going to screw us in addition the ER.  The ER which consisted of blood work, a CT without contrast, and EKG and two Tylenol was $13k, later discounted to about half that due to deals with my insurance company.

[dogmush]

That's a hell of an ER copay.

Mine is like $500.

We do need to do something about the ridiculous opacity of American healthcare billing.

[Pb]

I asked the receptionist "How much is this x-ray going to cost?"

"I don't know."

It's obscene.

Health care providers should be required by law to present all costs prior to any procedure, and everyone should be charged the same, no matter how they are paying (with insurance or not).  Prices should be publicly available online so patients can comparison shop.

[dogmush]

Health care providers should be required by law to present all costs prior to any procedure, and everyone should be charged the same, no matter how they are paying (with insurance or not).  Prices should be publicly available online so patients can comparison shop.

I sometimes wonder if a law like that would help, or if it would start a race to the bottom as people only shop for the cheapest experience, and Dr's cut everything they can and add extra fees for little things so they can be at the top of a "sort by price" list.  Sort of the "Spirit Airlines" model of health care.

In general, price alone seems to be how Americans shop for everything when given a bunch of information from the internet.

[Pb]

America has the most expensive health care in the world.  It needs to get cheaper, we have a serious problem with costs.  I think much is due to large amounts of consumption of health care, but it is utterly bizarre that prices are basically secrets, and change according to what insurance you have, or if you have any.

No other product is sold like this.  There is nothing "free market" about buying health care, and the horrific prices reflect this.

[Nick1911]

That's a hell of an ER copay.

Mine is like $500.

We do need to do something about the ridiculous opacity of American healthcare billing.

My plan at the time essentially would only kick in after the yearly healthcare expenses exceeded somewhere around 5k out of pocket.  I had a bit of HRA dollars, so I think I ended up out around $1500-2000

[JTHunter]

Then there are companies that do what is called "balance billing".
My elderly mother had to be transferred from an assisted care facility to a nursing home.  We recently got a bill from the ambulance company for over $300 above what they have already been paid by Medicare and her health plan.  I contacted the insurance company (United Health Care) twice about 2 weeks apart.  That's where I learned that term "balance billing" which they told wasn't "kosher" as the ambulance has a contract where they are supposed to accept Medicare's limitations.  The UHC rep did not flat out say that what the ambulance company was doing was illegal, but strongly hinted at that.  The rep said they would send a "cease & desist" letter but that was about all they could do.