Retorquing Prop Shaft Bolts?

[Ben]

What do you guys think about retorquing prop shaft bolts? It's in my 4Runner manual, and I had it done once* and it's a bit overdue now for another round, but I'm wondering just how necessary it is. I'm not sure if it's a standard maintenance item for all 4x4s or if it's a Toyota thing. Thoughts on just letting it go?


*Yes, I could do it myself, but it's already a hassle to lube the prop shafts with removing skid plates and stuff and not having a lift. I don't want to additionally deal with limited room for a breaker bar and having to reposition the shaft and I'm getting old, so am happy to pay someone else to do it.

[BobR]

Well, you can imagine my disappointment. 



bob

[Ben]

Well, you can imagine my disappointment. 

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Rolls_Royce_Allison_T56-A-14_Engines_with_Hamilton_Standard_54H60-77_Propellers_of_ROCAF_P-3C_3311_20170812.jpg/800px-Rolls_Royce_Allison_T56-A-14_Engines_with_Hamilton_Standard_54H60-77_Propellers_of_ROCAF_P-3C_3311_20170812.jpg?20180228023516

bob

 

[Boomhauer]

I have never retorqued u-joint bolts. Of course I also install all of mine with blue Loctite and new bolts everytime per Cat specifications and torque with a torque wrench. I’ve seen slung driveshafts and it’s not pretty

[Tuco]

Ben.  Remembering back to the last time they were retorqued, how loose were they?
If it fails, does it drop the shaft and pole vault the rig across the median, or can you lock the TCase and limp home?

Edit.
Ive owned and replaced u-joints in ferd, chevy, land rover 4x4s, MB rear wheel drive, (actually was a composite puck) and none had a retorque schedule.

[Ben]

Ben.  Remembering back to the last time they were retorqued, how loose were they?
If it fails, does it drop the shaft and pole vault the rig across the median, or can you lock the TCase and limp home?

Well, I don't know the answer to either question. :)

I'll assume they weren't loose the last time since the service tech didn't note it. I was just doing some gazoogling, and so far have come across only one instance of someone reporting they had a loose bolt - as in they could turn it with their hand. Everyone else reported that they were all snugged up tight when they checked.

The torque spec is like 65lbs, so they're on there pretty good to begin with. The problem for doing it at home, besides the no lift, is that a socket won't fit. Most of what I've seen is guys using crows feet on their torque wrenches, or guys just using open end wrenches and bearing down to make sure the bolts were tight. And bearing down is hard if the vehicle is not lifted.

Which also brings up an interesting point. To get back to Bob's pic, in aviation, IIRC, "retorquing" means you break the bolt loose and then retorque to spec. It's unclear whether Toyota wants that or just confirming that the torque wrench still clicks when you apply it at 65lbs, without first loosening the bolts.

[charby]

Dang, I was hoping this was Ben bought a boat thread.

[Ben]

Dang, I was hoping this was Ben bought a boat thread.

That might be this Winter, when everybody puts their boats on Craigslist, but it'll be a little 12-14' Smoker craft (popular Northwest boat) with a little outboard. The whole taking Steve on the fishing kayak with me didn't work out. He needs a boat that he can't capsize.

[Kingcreek]

I don’t mind dropping bash plates and such. It gives me a chance to really inspect everything, clean it up, and deal with any surface rust etc. never had any occasion to retorque universals but I check them. I have done lots of work under vehicles with no hoist. A combination of 2 ramps and floor jack and 6 ton jack stands (the pin stop type, not those deadly ratcheting abominations) has allowed me to get a vehicle 8-10” higher than shop floor and still safe and solid. With my mildly lifted Jeep I have plenty of room for me on a creeper and anything I want to do.

[JTHunter]

Ben - you have forgotten the old joke about buying a boat.

A boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into - frequently.   

[charby]

That might be this Winter, when everybody puts their boats on Craigslist, but it'll be a little 12-14' Smoker craft (popular Northwest boat) with a little outboard. The whole taking Steve on the fishing kayak with me didn't work out. He needs a boat that he can't capsize.

I sold my sailboat and bought an older 16' deep vee single console with a 70hp outboard a month ago. I have over 2' of freeboard. Dog was not impressed in 4' waves with it. I was on the other hand quite happy how she handled. People in Minnesota are dumping boats like mine now. I got it dirt cheap, seems like folks are upgrading to 19' and bigger or pontoons because of grandkids or have $$$ to spend. Winter storage happens here in October.

[Boomhauer]

Well, I don't know the answer to either question. :)

I'll assume they weren't loose the last time since the service tech didn't note it. I was just doing some gazoogling, and so far have come across only one instance of someone reporting they had a loose bolt - as in they could turn it with their hand. Everyone else reported that they were all snugged up tight when they checked.

The torque spec is like 65lbs, so they're on there pretty good to begin with. The problem for doing it at home, besides the no lift, is that a socket won't fit. Most of what I've seen is guys using crows feet on their torque wrenches, or guys just using open end wrenches and bearing down to make sure the bolts were tight. And bearing down is hard if the vehicle is not lifted.

Which also brings up an interesting point. To get back to Bob's pic, in aviation, IIRC, "retorquing" means you break the bolt loose and then retorque to spec. It's unclear whether Toyota wants that or just confirming that the torque wrench still clicks when you apply it at 65lbs, without first loosening the bolts.

You don’t want to loosen it up for this that would make no sense. You want to just reclick them with the torque wrench and you will be good to go.

I bet the guy that had a loose one had his drive shaft out at one time as well and it wasn’t tightened back correctly.

[Ben]

You don’t want to loosen it up for this that would make no sense. You want to just reclick them with the torque wrench and you will be good to go.

Expert opinion appreciated. 

Though now you have put me in "do it yourself" territory. If I had to break them all loose first, I'd have a good excuse to let the dealer do it. 

Any issues with a crow's foot on the torque wrench as far as accuracy? At 65lbs, I'm guessing a couple of pounds one way or another are not a big deal, at least in this application?

[dogmush]

I wouldn't bother unless Toyota's have some known problem with throwing driveshafts. 

[Ben]

I wouldn't bother unless Toyota's have some known problem with throwing driveshafts.

That's the thing, I don't think they do, and it also seems they are the only mainstream 4by maker that has it as a maintenance item.

[Ben]

Ben - you have forgotten the old joke about buying a boat.

A boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into - frequently.   

Hence why I only want a little boat. Little boat, smaller hole. 

[K Frame]

Screw the prop.

ROW!

[Tuco]

It sounds simple, but this reeks of having to rotate the shaft 4 times or more to access these bolts.  I would approach Ben's quandry thusly:
1. Wait until there's one or more additional and good reasons to get the truck up on stands in the garage, e.g. tire rotation, oil change, diff lube, transmission pan.
2. Raise the both front and rear, blocking, using four (4) rated stands, and all other safety precautions. I will not get under a vehicle supported by a jack.  If you have a hoist stop reading now cause you're way ahead of me
3. Put the transmission and/or TCase in neutral only after its -DEAD!- locked in place in the air. This is so the shafts can be rotated via superman forearm strength or by rotating the drive wheels.
4. Set the torque wrench, crawl or creep under with the proper tools and a flashlight, locate the bolt, and righty tighty until it clicks.  I might need to wedge a big screwdriver or small prybar in the u-joint yoke to keep it from spinning.
5. Spin the shaft using the prybar in the yoke to access other bolts and repeat. (i  advocate letting the drivewheels hang and spin because getting out & up & down & under 4 times can hurt)
It would be safer but much more painful to do it with the vehicle on the ground if I can fit.
6. Breakdance to the front driveshaft and repeat.
7. If the bolts are all tight, none loose, I'll never do it again except following up after a driveshaft remove/replace.

*The above opinion is worth what you've paid for it and is provided for entertainment purposes only.
*The author has never been under a 4x4 Toyota.
*The author is fully aware of the risks of working under raised vehicles, and does not suggest anyone do it this way. 
*Use a licensed mechanic or assume your own risks.



.

[charby]

Hence why I only want a little boat. Little boat, smaller hole. 

Still get an 6' wide across the boat. Trust me with a dog you'll want the stability.

[Boomhauer]

Expert opinion appreciated. 

Though now you have put me in "do it yourself" territory. If I had to break them all loose first, I'd have a good excuse to let the dealer do it. 

Any issues with a crow's foot on the torque wrench as far as accuracy? At 65lbs, I'm guessing a couple of pounds one way or another are not a big deal, at least in this application?

A crows foot changes the calculation slightly but not worth worrying about by any means. Another good item for this kind of job is a torque adapter which is like a crows foot but the box end of a wrench instead of an open. It is a little longer than a crows foot and possibly worth doing the math over.

I made a custom 6” long crows foot for doing diesel injector lines on common rails. That one you had to significantly lower the torque value

[Ben]

Yeah, so maybe if I do anything, it'll just be checking to make sure none are loose the next time I'm underneath lubing the prop shafts. Since I gotta remove a small pain in the ass skid plate for the latter anyway, plus turn the props to get all the zerks, might as well kill two birds with one stone.

As Tuco's #5 alluded to, squirming underneath and back out repeatedly makes an old guy feel it at the end of the day. 

[BobR]

<<<<<<<<<<   Don't say you are old too loud on here, look what happened to me!!!!     

As Tuco's #5 alluded to, squirming underneath and back out repeatedly makes an old guy feel it at the end of the day. 

bob

[Jim147]

Once they have been torqued and retorqued they should not move unless they have a serious design problem.

[Hawkmoon]

Expert opinion appreciated. 

Though now you have put me in "do it yourself" territory. If I had to break them all loose first, I'd have a good excuse to let the dealer do it. 

Any issues with a crow's foot on the torque wrench as far as accuracy? At 65lbs, I'm guessing a couple of pounds one way or another are not a big deal, at least in this application?

65 foot-pounds, or 65 inch-pounds?

I don't know what they use for u-joint bolts on a 'Yota, but I'm pretty sure 65 foot-pounds would shear off the ones on my Jeep. Factory spec calls for 14 foot-pounds.

[RocketMan]

Just don't get too torqued off about your prop shaft.