Things are going nuts in Ecuador

[WLJ]

Gangs roaming the country battling troops in the streets even taking over a TV station. President has declared war on the gangs.
Some are calling it civil war.


Ecuador declares war on armed gangs after TV station attacked on air
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-67930452

President Noboa said on Tuesday that an "internal armed conflict" now existed in the country and he was mobilising the armed forces to carry out "military operations to neutralise" what he called "transnational organised crime, terrorist organisations and belligerent non-state actors".

In neighbouring Peru, the government ordered the immediate deployment of a police force to the border to prevent any instability spilling over into the country.

Lawless Ecuador descends into chaos: Machete-wielding cartel thugs threaten to kill hostages and execute ANYONE they find in the streets as president vows to 'neutralise' 20 drug gangs in deepening narco 'civil war'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12946049/Lawless-Ecuador-descends-civil-war-chaos-President-orders-army-neutralise-20-drug-gangs-heavily-armed-cartel-thugs-seize-TV-parade-terrified-hostages-threaten-execute-streets-night.html

Ecuador's president has ordered his army to 'neutralise' 20 drug gangs after gunmen stormed and opened fire in a TV studio and inmates executed prison guards.

At least 10 people are known to have been killed in a series of barbaric attacks by the drug gangs as the nation erupted into a deadly 'civil war'.

The crazed criminals took scores of police officers hostage during their deadly rampage that saw explosions tear through Ecuador's cities, with the mobsters declaring: 'You declared war, you will get war'.

The gangs unleashed their fury after President Daniel Noboa on Monday declared a countrywide state of emergency and nightly curfew following the escape of Jose Adolfo Macias, aka 'Fito' - leader of Ecuador's biggest gang Choneros - on Sunday.

[HankB]

. . . The crazed criminals took scores of police officers hostage . . . 

That's a lot of cops that gave up - did they even have the means of fighting back, or did they just not want to?  (Or were they recruited from Columbine, Uvalde, or Broward County?)

[Blakenzy]

So.. what's the RKBA status in Ecuador? For non-cartel citizens I mean.

[dogmush]

So.. what's the RKBA status in Ecuador? For non-cartel citizens I mean.

There's no guarntee that if the people had guns they'd side with the .gov.  There's HUGE swaths of this world where organized crime is preferred by the normal folks to their government.

[MechAg94]

There's no guarntee that if the people had guns they'd side with the .gov.  There's HUGE swaths of this world where organized crime is preferred by the normal folks to their government.

Often the govt IS organized crime.

[HankB]

Often the govt IS organized crime.

There is no distinctly American criminal class - except Congress.

[charby]

Still think folks from Latin American shouldn't be granted asylum status to enter the US?

[WLJ]

Still think folks from Latin American shouldn't be granted asylum status to enter the US?

Huge difference between granting uncontrolled unvetted asylum to anyone and everyone who happens to show up at the border and granting asylum to someone deemed to be actually fleeing a war and deemed to be endangered by that war. The former is mostly what we're dealing with now and the asylum system is being abused for political gain. Oh and why aren't they being granted asylum in Mexico?
If you can't see the difference I can't help you

[Blakenzy]

Still think folks from Latin American shouldn't be granted asylum status to enter the US?

Hell no, not to all. Certainly not like it's being done now which clearly is an unregulated invasion with a significant human trafficking component attached. Besides, people should be motivated to stay and FIX their countries instead of encouraged to run away or export/import their issues to other countries.

There is a reason that the situation is such in Ecuador. Their society and culture in some way or form permitted or fostered conditions that led to what is going on now. If you whole sale transplant all their citizens to the US well it's just going to happen all over, same service different venue.

[cordex]

Still think folks from Latin American shouldn't be granted asylum status to enter the US?

I don't think asylum is intended to cover people running away from violent, shithole countries because they are violent, shithole countries.  Sure, some people who think they can gain political advantage want to abuse the asylum system in that way, but that's not what asylum is intended to accomplish.

[Jim147]

Yesterday was a big group of Chinese. Most of them carrying new black backpacks. We are sending millions to other countries so they can ship these people to us from all over the world.

[Ben]

Still think folks from Latin American shouldn't be granted asylum status to enter the US?

We're talking Equador here, but sure, let's bring in the entire continent and a half of Latin America.

No, people from Mexico, Costa Rica, Belize, Panama, etc. should not get asylum for "escaping" perfectly fine countries for economic opportunity. Same for Chile, Argentina, and Brazil. Also for China, Somalia, Iran, Afghanistan, and all the other countries sending people in via Mexico with the magic words, "I fear for my life", when they crossed half a planet and bypassed a dozen other countries to do so.

[French G.]

Prosecutor investigating the TV station assault permanently removed from case. And all other cases. He's dead. Note to complainers with Buffalo horns, this is what a real insurrection looks like.

[MechAg94]

Asylum is supposed to be requested at the nearest safe country.  That isn't the US. 

[charby]

We're talking Equador here, but sure, let's bring in the entire continent and a half of Latin America.

No, people from Mexico, Costa Rica, Belize, Panama, etc. should not get asylum for "escaping" perfectly fine countries for economic opportunity. Same for Chile, Argentina, and Brazil. Also for China, Somalia, Iran, Afghanistan, and all the other countries sending people in via Mexico with the magic words, "I fear for my life", when they crossed half a planet and bypassed a dozen other countries to do so.

Asylum isn't about economic opportunity.

According to the current requirements of applying for asylum in the US is as follows.

To be eligible for asylum, you must be:

Inside the United States
Able to demonstrate that you were persecuted or have a fear of persecution in your home country due to your:

Race
Religion
Nationality
Social group
Political opinion

In most cases, a decision will be made on your asylum application within 180 days after you file.

From https://www.usa.gov/asylum

More if you want to read on. https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-and-asylum/asylum

[Ben]

Asylum isn't about economic opportunity.

Yes, that's correct. So it appears that you are missing what most of us here are saying about a majority of the "asylum seekers".

[charby]

Yes, that's correct. So it appears that you are missing what most of us here are saying about a majority of the "asylum seekers".

Perhaps they are seeking the same freedoms that we have?

Why did you parents immigrate to the US?

[charby]

Yes, that's correct. So it appears that you are missing what most of us here are saying about a majority of the "asylum seekers".

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/row/IF11151.pdf

According to this brief itis three issues for migration from the Northen Triangle.

Security, Socioeconomic, and Governance.

[Ben]

Why did you parents immigrate to the US?

Economic opportunity. Hence legal immigrants and NOT asylum seekers. They stood in line, for two years IIRC, and got permission to go to Ellis Island, where they were further verified and medically checked to ensure they would not be a burden on this country.

[charby]

Economic opportunity. Hence legal immigrants and NOT asylum seekers. They stood in line, for two years IIRC, and got permission to go to Ellis Island, where they were further verified and medically checked to ensure they would not be a burden on this country.

In the two years they waited, where did they wait?

Asylum is one of the pathways to legal citizenship, ever since the U.S. Refugee Act of 1980.

The Refugee Act was introduced in the United States Senate on March 13, 1979, by Senator Ted Kennedy (D). The Senate approved the bill by a vote of 88-0 on September 6, 1979. On December 20, 1979, the United States House of Representatives approved its version of the Refugee Act by a vote of 328-47. A conference committee was convened to reconcile the differences between the two bills. On February 22, 1980, the conference committee made its report on the bill. The Senate approved the conference committee version of the bill on February 26, 1980. The House followed suit on March 4, 1980, by a vote of 211-195. The act was signed into law by President Jimmy Carter (D) on March 18, 1980

The system is current overwhelmed and underfunded, so when the asylum seeker finally gets their court date and if they don't qualify, they are deported back. While waiting for the court date they are eligible to work in the US and pay taxes. There are no federal benefits for asylum seekers, immigrants or illegals. There may be some state benefits, depending upon the states, but they are pretty much on their own to provide for themselves. Asylum seeking also means that they are documented, so they the feds know they are in the US. This is not the same as the illegal border crossers.

[dogmush]

I.

The system is current overwhelmed and underfunded, so when the asylum seeker finally gets their court date and if they don't qualify, they are deported back. While waiting for the court date they are eligible to work in the US and pay taxes. There are no federal benefits for asylum seekers, immigrants or illegals. There may be some state benefits, depending upon the states, but they are pretty much on their own to provide for themselves. Asylum seeking also means that they are documented, so they the feds know they are in the US. This is not the same as the illegal border crossers.

This is not a true statement.
https://immigrationequality.org/asylum/asylum-manual/asylee-status/

Not to mention who'd funding hotel stays in NYC or building huge residential camps in Chicago. .

[cordex]

Asylum isn't about economic opportunity.

There is a difference between what the law was written to provide for and how the law is being used.

[Ben]

In the two years they waited, where did they wait?

Asylum is one of the pathways to legal citizenship, ever since the U.S. Refugee Act of 1980.

The system is current overwhelmed and underfunded, so when the asylum seeker finally gets their court date and if they don't qualify, they are deported back. While waiting for the court date they are eligible to work in the US and pay taxes. There are no federal benefits for asylum seekers, immigrants or illegals. There may be some state benefits, depending upon the states, but they are pretty much on their own to provide for themselves. Asylum seeking also means that they are documented, so they the feds know they are in the US. This is not the same as the illegal border crossers.

They waited in Germany, where they belonged.

It's like there's two completely different conversations going on here with you. The rest of us are talking about the people misusing and abusing our (and international) asylum laws in lieu of waiting in line. There is all kinds of documented evidence of coyotes prepping these people with the magic words to get in.

As far as "they are documented". Bullshit. They're given cell phones, plane or bus fare, and court hearing eight years out. That's "documented" in only the barest definition of the word. They are not showing up for those court hearings.

And in the end, they are all still cheating - cutting in line under the false pretenses of "I fear for my life" and screwing all the people trying to immigrate legally. They are also screwing the very small percentage of border crossers that are legitimately seeking asylum, because they're getting court dates eight years out too.

[charby]

They waited in Germany, where they belonged.

It's like there's two completely different conversations going on here with you. The rest of us are talking about the people misusing and abusing our (and international) asylum laws in lieu of waiting in line. There is all kinds of documented evidence of coyotes prepping these people with the magic words to get in.

As far as "they are documented". Bullshit. They're given cell phones, plane or bus fare, and court hearing eight years out. That's "documented" in only the barest definition of the word. They are not showing up for those court hearings.

And in the end, they are all still cheating - cutting in line under the false pretenses of "I fear for my life" and screwing all the people trying to immigrate legally. They are also screwing the very small percentage of border crossers that are legitimately seeking asylum, because they're getting court dates eight years out too.

Immigration Laws are different now then they were in your parent's day. Also, your opinion of asylum is different then what is in the 1980 Act. That is law, yours isn't. It's just an opinion by Ben.

Why would a coyote need to prep them? They just need to go to a legal port of entry, cross as a tourist, step foot in the US, and ask for asylum.

Coyotes are more of getting (smuggling) people across the border without going through a legal crossing.

I haven't seen any legitimate gov document or new story about asylum seekers getting a cell phone or bus ticket from Uncle Sugar. From states or local government is different, we do know that the state of Texas has been busing them to other cities, that is documented.

Not showing up for court hearings, that percentage is pretty low and the one that don't make it usually get a appeal for a different date.  https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/news/11-years-government-data-reveal-immigrants-do-show-court

Back to the eight years, as I said the system is overwhelmed and underfunded. I also wish that the media would report more on the cartel situation in Latin America, so people can see how bad parts of it really are for the citizens.

[Ben]

Immigration Laws are different now then they were in your parent's day.

No *expletive deleted*it. Yet you're the one asking where my parents stayed.

And how the hell can you say people are showing up for court dates when their court dates are 8 years out?

Your are deflecting and throwing so much bullshit around in this thread that it's worthless to have a conversation with you.