Author Topic: Success cloning SATA to NVME  (Read 2107 times)

Brad Johnson

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Success cloning SATA to NVME
« on: May 27, 2024, 02:11:58 PM »
Still looking at options to combine my and SWMBO's computers. Been leaning towards an all-new machine with enough oomph to stay with us for a while. However, in taking a closer look at her machine I discovered it has an M.2 slot. That changes things. It's still hobbled by a single 3.5" SATA bay, but that's a minor quibble if I can migrate to an SSD primary. I can use the platter as a primary backup and do regular disk images to an external drive. With the savings versus a new machine, a reasonably decent NAS is also within budget.

What's the concensus on cloning from platter to NVME? Is it a non-issue, working just like any drive cloning, or are there gotchas which make it problematic?

Brad
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 04:16:34 PM by Brad Johnson »
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dogmush

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2024, 02:31:43 PM »
So I ran into this a little bit last year, trying to save my old Lenovo Yoga.  I had initially purchased WD NVME Drive, and an enclosure to hold it, and tried to clone it.  I had issues, ended up locking up the NVME drive, and when I couldn't find the right adapter to plug it into the MB anyway, I just went with a SATA SSD.  (Which went great), but the WD cloning software did not work right for me.

I am by no means an expert at all, but in your situation I would either do a fresh OS install on a new NVMe SSD and use that, or buy a 2.5" SATA SSD, clone your spiny plater across and go from there.

Someone smarter than me could probably get the SATA to NVMe clone working, but it kicked my ass.  FWIW, this is the drive I ended up using, and it went great.  Computer went from 2:35 sec boot to 0:45 boot and runs much better now.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08QBJ2YMG/?th=1

Brad Johnson

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2024, 04:21:29 PM »
Guess I could go with a SATA SSD in the 2.5" slot for OS with a platter CMR in the 3.5" slot as a more robust backup drive. (Said single 2.5" slot above. Should have been 3.5". Corrected).

Either way it should be orders of magnitude faster on boot and in general operation. Opinions on the combo of Samsung Evo SSD and WD Red Plus NAS HDD?

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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dogmush

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2024, 04:59:25 PM »
Why use any spinning drive?  Are they actually more reliable?   I legit don't know.

I know they are cheaper if you need a bunch for a raid or something,  but is the single drive failure rate better than SSD's?

Brad Johnson

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2024, 05:25:29 PM »
HDD for bulk storage due to its lower cost per GB, lower susceptibility to data degredation over time when unpowered, and relative lack of finite read/write cycle issues. SSD for OS, boot, and everyday operational speed. SSD as primary drive, HDD for backup. Hybrid solution capitalizing on drive format strengths with the added benefit of dual-modality redundancy as protection against inherent hardware-based issues.

Bad/outdated thinking?

Brad
« Last Edit: May 27, 2024, 06:28:22 PM by Brad Johnson »
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2024, 05:51:37 PM »
Opinions on the combo of Samsung Evo SSD and WD Red Plus NAS HDD?

That's essentially what I have on my primary desktop and two laptops: Samsung EVO 870 SSD drives in the computers, and a Western Digital MyCloud with two drives configured as a redundant array. I think I went over to that setup two years or so ago -- might have been three years. My only comment (doesn't really rise to the level of a "complaint") is that when the MyCloud hasn't been accessed for a while and goes to sleep, there's a very discernible wait until it spools up. Once it's awake, I don't notice any lag.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2024, 06:01:24 PM »
So I ran into this a little bit last year, trying to save my old Lenovo Yoga.  I had initially purchased WD NVME Drive, and an enclosure to hold it, and tried to clone it.  I had issues, ended up locking up the NVME drive, and when I couldn't find the right adapter to plug it into the MB anyway, I just went with a SATA SSD.  (Which went great), but the WD cloning software did not work right for me.

I am by no means an expert at all, but in your situation I would either do a fresh OS install on a new NVMe SSD and use that, or buy a 2.5" SATA SSD, clone your spiny plater across and go from there.

Someone smarter than me could probably get the SATA to NVMe clone working, but it kicked my ass.  FWIW, this is the drive I ended up using, and it went great.  Computer went from 2:35 sec boot to 0:45 boot and runs much better now.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08QBJ2YMG/?th=1

I don't own anything with an NVMe slot, so I haven't faced this. I have done all my HDD to SSD conversions using a USB-to-SATA cable to run the SSD drive, and using the free edition of Macrium Reflect to clone the drive. Once done, then I just swapped in the new SSD drive.

"Why use Macrium Reflect when Samsung provides cloning software?" you ask? Partitions. The laptops I upgraded all had 750GB HDDs, and I was installing 1TB SSDs. The Samsung Magician software cloned the system exactly -- configuring the 1TB SSD as a 750 GB drive with an unallocated partition of 250 GB. I could have then used something to initialize and format that extra space as a D:/ drive, but that's not what I wanted. Macrium Reflect allowed me to grab the extra space as part of the C:/ drive partition while doing the cloning operation. No muss, no fuss.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 04:49:36 PM by Hawkmoon »
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dogmush

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2024, 06:04:47 PM »
^^^^
FWIW, when I cloned my HDD to the Samsung I linked, the software had a checkbook for "  fit partition to available disk space" so Samsung might have updated that.

bedlamite

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2024, 07:10:00 PM »
In addition to Samsung, I've had zero issues with Crucial MX500 in several machines for years.
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JTHunter

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2024, 10:14:57 PM »
FWIW, I'm using a Windows 7 machine with a 1TB HDD and a 1TB ext. Seagate HDD.  This machine is at least 10 years old and still works well for me.  Software includes Photoshop 6, bought when I was taking classes 23 years ago and Office 2K of which I only use Word and Excel.
The one thing I have noticed was this past winter when I first turned the tower on and there was a "whine" from the platters spinning up.  After a couple of minutes, that sound went away.  Since the weather has gotten warmer, that no longer happens on start-up.
I hope to get this to last until this fall as I'm hoping to get it in the shop and have them listen to that sound and determine the actual cause.  IF it is the HD, I'm going to see if they can clone it to a similar HD and replace the older one.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2024, 10:17:09 PM »
In addition to Samsung, I've had zero issues with Crucial MX500 in several machines for years.

Conversely, the first SSD I used was a 1TB Western Digital Green. It failed -- mercifully a couple of weeks before the warranty expired, and I was able to initiate a warranty claim quickly enough to get it replaced. But the Green is W-D's entry level product, and I don't trust it, so I have never installed the replacement.. I have a couple of Western Digital Blue SSDs that haven't given any problems. Also no problems with the Samsung EVOs.
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bedlamite

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2024, 11:36:30 PM »
Conversely, the first SSD I used was a 1TB Western Digital Green. It failed -- mercifully a couple of weeks before the warranty expired, and I was able to initiate a warranty claim quickly enough to get it replaced. But the Green is W-D's entry level product, and I don't trust it, so I have never installed the replacement.. I have a couple of Western Digital Blue SSDs that haven't given any problems. Also no problems with the Samsung EVOs.

I've got a WD black 1TB NVME in the laptop I'm using now. No problems at 6 months.
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lee n. field

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2024, 12:13:23 PM »
What's the concensus on cloning from platter to NVME? Is it a non-issue, working just like any drive cloning, or are there gotchas which make it problematic?

Can be done. 

If you partition table is MBR you will need to convert to GPT.  That is possible.

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lee n. field

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2024, 12:18:26 PM »
But the Green is W-D's entry level product, and I don't trust it, so I have never installed the replacement..

Long term experience with WD Green here in the shop is not good.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2024, 12:32:33 PM »
Sounds like it's easiest to eschew the M.2 drive and go with SATA SSD, thus making the cloning procedure more straightforward. Is that correct? If so, I can do the EVO/WD Red combo for $290 plus tax, all in, with the added benefit of local availability (Best Buy).

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-870-evo-2tb-internal-ssd-sata/6447128.p?skuId=6447128
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-red-plus-12tb-internal-sata-nas-hard-drive-for-desktops/6523103.p?skuId=6523103

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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dogmush

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2024, 01:05:24 PM »
If you don't already have one you will probably need a SATA to USB to plug the new drive in and clone it.  https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sabrent-sata-to-usb-adapter-for-2-5-sata-drives-black/6521020.p?skuId=6521020

Unless you have a spare SATA slot open in the computer now, I guess.

Brad Johnson

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2024, 02:40:27 PM »
Unless you have a spare SATA slot open in the computer now, I guess.

Fortunately, the machine has two unpopulated SATA ports and two empty 2.5" bays. Current drive is in the single 3.5" bay. The EVO is 2.5" form factor so should be able to snap it in, fire up the machine, and do the transfer. Once everything is up and running, I can pull the existing drive for safe-keeping and install the WD Red+ in the 3.5" slot.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

lee n. field

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2024, 03:29:54 PM »
Sounds like it's easiest to eschew the M.2 drive and go with SATA SSD, thus making the cloning procedure more straightforward. Is that correct?

nvme is faster
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2024, 04:22:46 PM »
nvme is faster

Yeah, I know. Part of me lusts after that speed, but the sensible part of me understands this is an office machine used to pay bills, write letters, and occasionally do online research. It's most important function will be as a semi-reliable repository for email, photos, and music. The only reason I'm upgrading is to bulk up the storage robustness and (hopefully) make general improvements in everyday performance. I'd love the M.2's additional zip, but it seems the SATA SSD should do most of what I want without the additional transfer hassles.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

bedlamite

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2024, 05:29:55 PM »
moving from a HDD to SATA SSD is still a significant gain in speed.
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lee n. field

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2024, 06:38:45 PM »
The only reason I'm upgrading is to bulk up the storage robustness and (hopefully) make general improvements in everyday performance. I'd love the M.2's additional zip, but it seems the SATA SSD should do most of what I want without the additional transfer hassles.

I'll clarify a statement I made above.  You need to convert to GPT partition table, if you want the clone to be bootable.  You can clone a disk with MBR partition table to nvme but it won't be bootable.  I assume you need it bootable.  That was the squirrliest thing for me to figure out how to do.  (MS's own article on how to do it.,)

Once I worked through how to do that, it became not a hassle for me.

The speed improvement is significant, at least according to the benchmark I've run on them..  SATA tops out a ~500MB/sec.  NVME much higher.  For me it's worth it also to get firmly and properly into the new technology.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2024, 09:38:39 AM »
I'll clarify a statement I made above.  You need to convert to GPT partition table, if you want the clone to be bootable.  You can clone a disk with MBR partition table to nvme but it won't be bootable.  I assume you need it bootable.  That was the squirrliest thing for me to figure out how to do.  (MS's own article on how to do it.,)

I need to do this for any solid state drive regardless of form factor, or does it only apply to M.2 drives?

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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dogmush

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2024, 10:27:04 AM »
I need to do this for any solid state drive regardless of form factor, or does it only apply to M.2 drives?

Brad

I did not have to do that with my SATA SSD.  In fact, going to the Protected GPT Partition is what locked up my M.2 SSD for a bit.  (I got it back after some googling)  The SATA SSD was a straight clone across.

lee n. field

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2024, 11:12:16 AM »
I need to do this for any solid state drive regardless of form factor, or does it only apply to M.2 drives?

Brad

does not apply to SATA SSDs
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Success cloning SATA to NVME
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2024, 11:19:03 AM »
Okay, thanks Lee and dogmush. That's good. Makes for a nice straightforward swap.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB