Author Topic: Integrity  (Read 2371 times)

P95Carry

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Integrity
« on: June 20, 2005, 07:26:53 PM »
Old topic - at least it is one I have written before.

I rate integrity along with honor and respect, and yet it seems daily almost I see signs of this evaporating.  Folks seem to want to screw each other - and ''WIN''.  Win what?  I guess it's a case of greed and ''coming out on top''.  Greed seems rampant these days.

I have always ''sealed'' a deal with a handshake when FTF - and that is binding - no two ways about it - no different for me than a paper contract with signature.  Trust comes in too of course tho the older I get the less I give trust freely - it needs earned.

A good buddy lent a ''friend'' $100 quite recently - the intention was a short term ''get you out of trouble'' deal.... just a few days.  Well this was actually IIRC about 2 or more weeks ago.  It seems they shook hands on the arrangement.

Now this ''friend'' - seems to have found convenient memory loss such that he swears he never borrowed anything!!  Heck - I felt angry at this because where are things going when integrity is gone?  My buddy is equally incensed - and wonders why he even bothered to try and help out.  I shall hope his ''friend'' comes thru but the way things appear - the $100 is gone and he'll see zilch.  He is not well off either.

Oh well - changing times I guess but sad ones. Sad  Maybe I am glad I won't be around in another 20 or so years.  I wouldn't fit in!!)
Chris - P95
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Sindawe

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Integrity
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2005, 08:53:01 PM »
Quote
I rate integrity along with honor and respect, and yet it seems daily almost I see signs of this evaporating.
You are not alone in that P95Carry.  And its more than just $$$ involved.  I've dropped & lost friends who've presumed they could violate their word/oath bacuse it "Felt Right".  I'll no longer aid my sibling financially due to being burned too many times with promises to repay in X time frame, it it never happening.  Last week a friend asked me to LIE for her to aid her job search.

Not really changing times, just SSDD year after year.  Even the Ancient Greeks had nothing good to day about the youth of their day.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Fjolnirsson

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Integrity
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2005, 01:27:19 AM »
People, Bah. Don't even get me started, Chris...
I find popular culture to be a contributing cause in the decline of personal and corporate integrity.
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mhdishere

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Integrity
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2005, 04:16:12 AM »
From C.S. Lews' "Abolition of Man":

"And all the timesuch is the tragi-comedy of our situationwe continue to clamour for those very qualities we are rendering impossible. You can hardly open a periodical without coming across the statement that what our civilization needs is more 'drive', or dynamism, or self-sacrifice, or 'creativity'. In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honour and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful. "

We've raised a generation of people who expect to get high grades just for showing up.  We refuse to punish them when they do wrong because it might "stifle" them.  We teach them about their own, personal, limitless value to the point that they believe they're the only ones with any value.  Courtesy is a thing of the past, you're old fashioned if you say please, thank you, and excuse me.  If someone promises to do something for you they're amazed if you actually expect them to do so.  I suspect it's always been this way, just as there have always been people whose word is their bond, who believe that character is what you do when no one is watching, who are willing to admit mistakes and make amends when need be but will stand up for what they believe in.  Who act with integrity not because of what others would think about them if they failed to do so but because of how they would feel about themselves.

My wife sometimes tells me I sound like an old man at 42.  Maybe I am, maybe I'm a dinosaur.  On the other hand, there are lots more dinosaurs in museums than rats and weasels.

Art Eatman

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Integrity
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2005, 05:16:48 AM »
Amen, Chris...

I've watched this sort of changing in behavior since (roughly) the time of Timothy Leary's "If it feels good, do it!" BS.  Once folks started thinking they "deserved" the Good Life just because they were upright and breathing, notions of honor and self-respect and integrity became ever less-important.

I guess that at 71, I'm old enough to be one of these "dinosaurs".  Well, anybody who doesn't like my "please" and "thank you" and my expectation of one's word being one's bond is SOL.  

What has always intrigued me is that the gun culture seems to have a higher percentage of people with integrity than the anti- or neutral claques...

I never got a hot check at a gunshow.

Smiley, Art
The American Indians learned what happens when you don't control immigration.

grampster

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Integrity
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2005, 06:22:56 AM »
Chris,

     It's the human condition today.  Art is correct in his observations.  I'm 61 and have been around awhile too.  The whole "60's" thing did much to give folks the opportunity to be more relaxed in many ways.  But, like most everything else, the old addage: Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile, kicked in.
 
Many seem to want, but not be willing to give anything in return.  Personal agrandizement is the rule of the day.  But like all things based in selfishness, it reveals itself for what it is and will fade away.

  I do take some of the blame, though.  When I grew up, we didn't have much and we were happy with what we had as we didn't know any better.  As time went along a lot of us fell into the trap of being able to provide more for our families than we had as youths.  So we did.  What happened is there became a reduction in appreciation for things that used to be not available, but now were so, readily.  Perhaps the term is jaded.

But cheer up, Art also mentions our gun culture group.  He is right!  We do have a better appreciation for honor, dignity and integrity.  I built a home on a handshake with a carpenter.  He's a gun enthusiast, a hunter that has traveled the world in search of game.  When the wind blew, the house stood and he did a fine job.

I have seen my sons, who have their faults, and are jaded to a degree because of our American plenty, get out of bed at 3AM to drive an aquintance who was in distress 200 miles, come home and go to work,  or hold a door for an old man.  (I can't get them to cut my grass, though. heh.)

We gunnies need to keep our culture at all costs, because perhaps we, in the end, may give the example that turns our country around and sets the ship of state on an even keel again.  I am an idealist, I know.  But I see hopeful signs around.  Hypocricy is not lost on middle America.  The shrillness of the Left and the desperate propaganda by most "news" outlets proves that good humor and integrity is still alive, well and kickin' and irritating the bejayzus out of 'em.
"Never wrestle with a pig.  You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."  G.B. Shaw

P95Carry

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Integrity
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2005, 08:22:21 AM »
Thx all - good to hear such agreement - tho in truth I would hardly expect much different.  There is I am sure a much higher degree of integrity in amongst us gunnies - just seems to be the way it is - probably in percentile terms - way greater than amongst many ''sheeple''  They I think have the top prize often where greed is involved.

I have never been so nieve as to think all folks should be the same - neither do I try and view thru rose colored glasses but have held certain values as essential to keeping ''the wheels going round''.  ''Soceital lubrication'' if you will.

I screwed up a (good) few times when younger - did things where with hindsight I felt some shame but - they were learning experiences and ones where if I could, I managed some atonement.  But when I see folks who ''should know better'' all set to screw anyone and everyone they meet then I suffer anger and sadness in approx' equal proportions.  

I am no religious man per se but ''do unto others.....'' is IMO a good maxim for life, other than of course those goblins who think with a totally different mindset from us and seemingly will dish out stuff they'd not seem to mind having returned.  We can take care of that sometimes!!!!

Oh well - press on - and hope that those of us who DO care about such things can at least do our bit to promulgate same - hoping to make it more ''infectious''.  Take care y'all.
Chris - P95
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Integrity
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2005, 10:38:46 AM »
Chris,

Great topic!

Everyone, great replies!

I just finished speaking with Chris, this very subject - Integrity - was one of the subject we discussed. Some call me a Relic, some a Reprobate, I don't care. Right is Right, just how raised.

I wonder if Chis's wife has quick giggling and laughing after speaking to me - she does that everytime I speak to her. She has a Great voice and personality.  Me- I speak Southern...Chris is the one that "talks funny".  *smirk*

P95Carry

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Integrity
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2005, 11:02:47 AM »
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.Chris is the one that "talks funny".  *smirk*
Yaeh - right!! Cheesy Cheesy
Chris - P95
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Integrity
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2005, 11:17:58 AM »
*ahem*

Integrity is a quality - a quality not bounded by  language, dialect, nor demographics.




*grin*

jefnvk

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Integrity
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2005, 11:40:33 AM »
Yep, only a few select people get money (or anything) loaned from me anymore.  The rest have pretty much blown their chance.

Being a good person seems to take second place to coming out on top anymore.  It bothers me if I take advantage of someone to better myself, but it doesn't appear to affect most people.
I still say 'Give Detroit to Canada'

onions!

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Integrity
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2005, 12:33:18 PM »
Quote from: Art Eatman
I've watched this sort of changing in behavior since (roughly) the time of Timothy Leary's "If it feels good, do it!" BS.  Once folks started thinking they "deserved" the Good Life just because they were upright and breathing, notions of honor and self-respect and integrity became ever less-important.
Which means to me that every year there are fewer & fewer people left to guide the youngsters in what most of us deem the correct direction.

Can you expect integrity to come from a kid whose role models are a gangsta rapper who sings(?) about getting shot & all the hos' he has?Or the seven million a year baseball player?Or the basketball player who's antics off the court are no better than the rapper?

I try myself & most of those I associate w/do to.

This whole topic makes me kinda sad though.I wonder how much womens rights or "equal oppurtumnities" has to do w/the Idon'tcareing of America?

ramble ramble ramble

Fjolnirsson

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Integrity
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2005, 12:41:05 PM »
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.Chris is the one that "talks funny".  *smirk*

Yaeh - right!!
Well, You do spell funny, so I'd assume it would carry over into speech.......Tongue
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P95Carry

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Integrity
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2005, 12:50:22 PM »
Fjol' - nah - it's just trouble with my figners Cheesy
Chris - P95
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Standing Wolf

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Integrity
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2005, 01:58:26 PM »
Integrity may be less common than it used to be, but it's by no means out of production.

Curiously, it's still free to those who value it.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Paddy

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Integrity
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2005, 03:13:54 PM »
I've found that's it's easier on my blood pressure to just consider lent money a gift.  Without an expectation of repayment, I save myself a lot of resentment.

That's just me talkin'. YMMV

P95Carry

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Integrity
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2005, 04:22:15 PM »
Thing is Riley - it is EITHER loaned - OR it is a gift - can't be both - and there is the problem.  

I know where you are coming from tho re the BP LOL!!.  Bit like putting money on a horse - have to say ''goodbye'' to it regardless and if a win - that's a bonus!
Chris - P95
Guns don't kill people - people kill people.
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