Pretzel logic on CCW in Wisconsin

[Monkeyleg]

For some reason I was under the impression that 1,000 ft. GFSZ meant that it had to be unloaded and securely stored away when traveling or transporting through the zone.

Some of the anti-gun legislators years back tried to insert very strict language into the bill that would have required what you describe. However, it was pointed out to them that there are plenty of schools near the interstate, and it would be a mess to have cars pulling over so their drivers could disarm if and when they knew they were approaching a school zone. 

[Matthew Carberry]

That's a solid shall-issue law.

If Con. Carry is truly a non-starter this is really good. 

Expanding reciprocity is the quiet cousin to the big leaps we've been making on the carry front.

[AJ Dual]

For some reason I was under the impression that 1,000 ft. GFSZ meant that it had to be unloaded and securely stored away when traveling or transporting through the zone.

Yes, but there's some sort of verbiage that provides an exception if licensed by your state to carry.

[cosine]

People seem pretty confident about this... Fletcher's already has started a sign-up list for training classes.

[Monkeyleg]

People seem pretty confident about this... Fletcher's already has started a sign-up list for training classes.

That's understandable...this time. Back in 2006 people were so confident that there were lots of people going through the process to become NRA instructors for concealed carry. There was a lot of work to do, and they were getting ahead of themselves. In hindsight, it's obvious that it was already ordained that Van Akkeren and Steinbrink would flip on the veto override, but at the time I was really pissed that people who previously could be counted on to help were busy getting certified.

[AJ Dual]

We have to wait on the final bill, but this online gun-safety class from Maryland (I think it's required for a handgun purchase permit there?) may meet the WI requirements.

I don't advocate wholesale shirking of the training requirements. However, this might be just the thing if you're just a long time gun owner/gun user who's worked/shot in stringent gun-safety environments like USPSA/IDPA, been a range master etc. but you've done all this without ever getting any of the specific paperwork WI's permit will require.

http://www.mdgunsafety.com/

[CNYCacher]

In NYS you can carry on school grounds if you are picking up or dropping off students.  Also anyone who has written permission from school administrators can be exempted entirely.

[cosine]

It's been a good day for Wisconsin politics.

[Matthew Carberry]

It's been a good day for Wisconsin politics.

Congrats on the bipartisan CCW vote!

I read an article in the Stamford example that had one Dem. legislator put it well.


Holperin, from Conover, said Wisconsin ranks 25th in the nation in violent crimes.

"So will this bill make the state any safer? Probably not. Will it make the state more dangerous? Probably not," he said. "But we just need to get on with the business of conforming with the other 48 states, conforming with the wishes of the voters and complying with our Constitution."

Every part of that is 100% unchallengeably true (no utterly unnecessary claims of positive effects) and is the right attitude for a legislator to have. 

No harm anywhere else?  Passes the logic test?  Constitutional?  Go with the will of voters and move on.

[KD5NRH]

- That the signage rules be amended to require posting signs be something larger than 8.5x11" and in "safety orange" to prevent "spam" faxing and "fear mongering" by the various anti-orgs. And that having a standard of 12x12" in orange, with specific verbiate would alleviate confusion on the part of business owners, carriers, and LEO's as to what constitutes an "official sign". Possibly even saving time in the courts. [cough]andtodiscouragebusinessesfrompostingbyrequiringbiggerugliersigns...[/cough]

IIRC, at least one state requires 9x12" with black gun and lettering and red circle-slash just so they can't be on 8.5x11" paper or run off by the thousands on a B&W copier.  11x14 color copying is a bit too pricey for most of the GFW activists to make several hundred and paste them everywhere.

[Monkeyleg]

IIRC, at least one state requires 9x12" with black gun and lettering and red circle-slash just so they can't be on 8.5x11" paper or run off by the thousands on a B&W copier.  11x14 color copying is a bit too pricey for most of the GFW activists to make several hundred and paste them everywhere.

On one of the bills in a past year, the anti's managed to get 8 1/2" x 11" paper signage into the bill so they could fax signs to businesses.

I have yet to see a "no guns" sign on any building here except government, law enforcement, jails and post offices. I'd bet that most business owners don't care about CCW, or they don't know about it. It's been years since AL's law was implemented, probably before most of these people were born.

[AJ Dual]

Well, only two amendments passed with SB93 last night.

1. Seems to be a legal jargon clarification, not important.

2. Shooting competitions were removed as a form of "training". (shrug... I'd have liked to see "training" described as broadly as possible, but not a biggie.)

What I wonder about is Lena Taylor's sudden 180 on the issue. She was practically spouting NRA talking points "We don't have to fear the machine, but possibly who is holding it..." etc.

Obviously she knew the math, that it would pass, but I'm still wondering what her angle is/was.

[brimic]

What I wonder about is Lena Taylor's sudden 180 on the issue. She was practically spouting NRA talking points "We don't have to fear the machine, but possibly who is holding it..." etc.

Obviously she knew the math, that it would pass, but I'm still wondering what her angle is/was.

I'm going to send her an 'attagirl' email today anyway.

[AJ Dual]

My guess is some well heeled people in her district wanted CCW, and told her so, and since it was going to pass anyway, she voted in favor.

She also kind of had a spin of.. "So many of my district's residents are already carrying concealed weapons." Which seemed to have double implications about crime, and about otherwise innocent downtrodden minorities who could now possibly defend themselves, and not have to fear the po-po etc...

My only real gripe is that nobody touched the signage issue. The signs are too small, with no color requirements. Fax machines are probably already smoking as we speak. 

[brimic]

The Gun free school zone thing has me wondering though.....

[Monkeyleg]

Lena Taylor is an absolute mystery. She has the whole north side, and Wauwatosa. I can't imagine that there's enough pro-CCW people in Wauwatosa to offset flack she'd get from the north side.

Could it be that she's angling for a higher office (remember Senator Gary George), and needs the NRA's support? Otherwise it makes no sense from any way I look at it.

[StopTheGrays]

Lena Taylor is an absolute mystery. She has the whole north side, and Wauwatosa. I can't imagine that there's enough pro-CCW people in Wauwatosa to offset flack she'd get from the north side.

Could it be that she's angling for a higher office (remember Senator Gary George), and needs the NRA's support? Otherwise it makes no sense from any way I look at it.

If it was not a voice vote she probably hit the wrong button and is now covering up her mistake.

[Monkeyleg]

It was a voice vote, so she's on record.

Once again, politics makes for strange bedfellows. She has plans to run for a higher office (couldn't find out what), and she struck a deal with the NRA: she would vote for the bill (which would pass with or without her vote), and they won't attack her (too hard) when she runs for the mysterious higher office.

There's no noble motivations in Milwaukee politics. It's just down and dirty Chicago-style dealings.

[Monkeyleg]

I found out a bit more. The bill will be passed in the assembly, perhaps next week. The Republican leadership wanted to wait until the end of the year, but the NRA insisted on June, as they didn't want to risk the recall elections. So, Walker should be signing the bill in June or July.

The NRA is also working with the Milwaukee police and other law enforcement agencies to pass a bill that would add additional penalties for convicted felons caught carrying concealed weapons, or for those with convictions for crimes of violence. Carrying concealed without a permit will not be a felony if you have no record. It will stay the same, a Class C misdemeanor. This is pretty much duplication of federal law, but it lets the Milwaukee police chief and mayor claim some kind of victory, even if it is symbolic.

As for Bob Jauch voting for the bill, nobody seems to understand that.

[AJ Dual]

I thought I heard Jerry Bott say on WISN 1130 that "Milwaukee County was going to try something to restrict CCW" however, I finished out the show, and he never said more about it.

Anyone with any scoop on that?

[RaspberrySurprise]

Yes, but there's some sort of verbiage that provides an exception if licensed by your state to carry.

Assuming you're talking about the federal GFSZ that only applies if you are licensed to carry by your state while IN your state.

[AJ Dual]

Assuming you're talking about the federal GFSZ that only applies if you are licensed to carry by your state while IN your state.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Also, SB93 is now on the Assembly calendar for next Tuesday. Assuming smooth sailing, CCW should go into effect Nov 1.

[Monkeyleg]

...CCW should go into effect Nov 1.

Great. Maybe I'll be able to carry legally when I come back for Christmas.

[AJ Dual]

Great. Maybe I'll be able to carry legally when I come back for Christmas.

Yeah, just in time for every business to post out of knee-jerk fear, and LEO's to be in complete "I don't know what the **** is going on"-mode that states that get CCW go though for the first year or so... 

[StopTheGrays]

Yes, that's what I meant.

Also, SB93 is now on the Assembly calendar for next Tuesday. Assuming smooth sailing, CCW should go into effect Nov 1.

Is that when the permitting process would start? Apply Nov 1 and wait 30-60 days or if you are a WI resident with a non-resident CCW from another state could you carry in WI then (Nov 1)?