For all you pit bull lovers

[jim in anchorage]

OK so pit bulls are just harmless gentle animals. It's just " bad owners" that are the problem. Why do so many pit bull owners seem to be "bad owners?" Maybe they get there rocks off because they own a mean animal bred to kill?
Odd so few German Shepard owners are "bad owners"

[Stand_watie]

OK so pit bulls are just harmless gentle animals. It's just " bad owners" that are the problem. Why do so many pit bull owners seem to be "bad owners?" Maybe they get there rocks off because they own a mean animal bred to kill?
Odd so few German Shepard owners are "bad owners"

Bad owners are attracted to the press image. I remember in the 80's it was Rottweiler's that were ZOMG'd by the press. My dad tells me in the 70's it was Dobermans, and in the 50's it was Shepherds.

Shepherds, etc are VERY well represented in this non-exhaustive list of fatal dog attacks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

[Calumus]

First, if you want to be accurate, ALL terriers were designed to kill. Some for rats, some for foxes, some for other dogs. Modern life and selective breeding has dulled the instinct in most lines though. I haven't met too many Daschunds lately that are capable of taking on a badger in its own hole. You do know that St Bernards are consistently on the top ten "deadliest" dogs list right? They're large, extremely powerful dogs that are more then capable of delimbing you. I'd say a full grown Bernie has a much better chance of doing that then my 43# Stafford. Sure, there are lots and lots of stories about pit bull attacks; mainly, because it makes for a sensational story. Pit Bull Attacks Honor Student  sells more papers then Jack ass Kid Hops Someone Else's Fence, Gets Chomped by Lab/Vizsla mix

Fully half of the scraps my last dog got in were with intact, male Labs. People buy them thinking that they're great with kids and other dogs automatically. Then they don't socialize or train them. ALL dogs need socialization. My Corso (a very large headed, big, muscley, scary breed) had his CGC, TDI, and TT certificates. My Stafford will likely never test for any of them. Is it because he's too dangerous to take out in public? No, its because he's too overcome with joy at meeting every stranger he sees to stay sitting without a leash on for more then a few seconds. Its embarrassing at times. Bull breeds are the AR-15 of the dog world. There are more of them then pretty much anything else, and they're usually demonized more because of how they look then any for any other reason.

[jim in anchorage]

I had no idea Mike Vick and his dog fight buddy's posted here. Why do you think  they call them pit bulls? Maybe because they where breed to fight in pits? To the death? Yeah just regular dogs.

[vaskidmark]

I had no idea Mike Vick and his dog fight buddy's posted here. Why do you think  they call them pit bulls? Maybe because they where breed to fight in pits? To the death? Yeah just regular dogs.

A small amount of research would correct that.  http://www.pitbull411.com/history.html

Rather than creating a yappy little version of Winston Churchill (who had not been invented yet) nipping at the heels of large bovines,  folks took a dog with a long history of certain behavioral traits and turned them to a utilitarian purpose.  Then

Sadly, the Romans would not be the last to use pit bulls in cruel and grisly blood sports. When the Normans invaded England in 1066, they introduced a new sport called baiting. Interestingly enough, baiting originated with butchers who kept dogs (called Bullenbeissers) to handle unruly bulls as they were herded to the market for slaughter. When a bull stepped out of line or exhibited uncontrollable behavior, the dogs would clamp down on its nose and simply hang on until the handler could regain control of the wayward animal.

Like most dog owners, the butchers were proud of their canine companions and their stubborn tenacity in dealing with the much larger, and potentially dangerous bulls. Consequently, public displays were arranged to showcase the dogs' abilities and, quite frankly, to appease the multitudes that attended baiting events for their entertainment value.

So in response to the almighty Pound Sterling and man's apparently inate inability to leave well enough alone they took a dog and turned it into a blood sport plaything.  And  still today those who fight dogs are saddled with both having to selectively breed for a trait but to actually spend time, effort, and money training their dogs how to fight.  And in spite of that

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/10/michael-vick-dogs-vicktory_n_5119150.html
http://moderndogmagazine.com/gallery/where-former-michael-vick-dogs-are-now
http://parade.com/48473/jimgorant/15-vicks-dogs/

stay safe.

[Perd Hapley]

Somebody brought a pit bull into my cousin's trailer park. It detonated, killing 27people.

My cousin's meth lab was destroyed in the explosion.

[lee n. field]

Somebody brought a pit bull into my cousin's trailer park. It detonated, killing 27people.

My cousin's meth lab was destroyed in the explosion.

You're just trying to win an award with that, aren't you?

[Ron]

In the early 1900's here in the states pit bulls were popular dog for dogfighting hence the name ascribed to an Americanized bull terrier.

Generally there were at least two humans and two dogs in the "pit" during the fight. The owners and the fighting dogs. Sometimes there was also a third human like a referee. Dogs that showed aggressiveness toward humans were considered poor dogs for fighting. You couldn't have a dog that was aggressive with humans in combat around handlers in the pit. There used to be a whole structure of rules around the endeavor. Both to protect humans and the dogs.

Pit fighting dogs have actually had decades of breeding non aggressive behavior toward humans bred into them. I realize some idiots are trying to breed that out or use other methods to make them aggressive towards humans. 

For the record I abhor dog fighting and think that most of what we see out there that are called Pit Bulls are probably poorly bred dogs.  

[Calumus]

I had no idea Mike Vick and his dog fight buddy's posted here.

Why would anybody want an AR-15? They were just developed to kill lots of people in a short period of time. You can't hunt with one.

The only people who need 10 round magazines are criminals and cops.

All "cop killer" ammo should be banned.

You're sounding like ^ that guy. Media sensationalism and hyperbole do not usually represent actual truth. Unless of course, you're just lobbing a crap grenade then standing back to see what happens.
Just for information's sake, Here are the official standings for the American Temperament Test society:

http://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/

You'll notice that every breed associated with being a pit bull performed as well as or better then the German Shepard and Saint Bernard...
Now, chances are that every dog tested is likely to come from a caring home. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't have been taken out to be tested in the first place.

[roo_ster]

Somebody brought a pit bull into my cousin's trailer park. It detonated, killing 27people.

My cousin's meth lab was destroyed in the explosion.

Heh.

[AJ Dual]

In the early 1900's here in the states pit bulls were popular dog for dogfighting hence the name ascribed to an Americanized bull terrier.

Generally there were at least two humans and two dogs in the "pit" during the fight. The owners and the fighting dogs. Sometimes there was also a third human like a referee. Dogs that showed aggressiveness toward humans were considered poor dogs for fighting. You couldn't have a dog that was aggressive with humans in combat around handlers in the pit. There used to be a whole structure of rules around the endeavor. Both to protect humans and the dogs.

Pit fighting dogs have actually had decades of breeding non aggressive behavior toward humans bred into them. I realize some idiots are trying to breed that out or use other methods to make them aggressive towards humans. 

For the record I abhor dog fighting and think that most of what we see out there that are called Pit Bulls are probably poorly bred dogs.  

Our rescue from Tennessee has some of that lineage in her. She's not pure ABPT, too tall, and too long in the muzzle, and does not have that thick "bully stance" to her, but otherwise looks like a "Pitt". We think she might have been an 'oops', not bred true, and used as a bait/training dog. She'd been in rescue for 6 months to deliver and wean a litter of pups she was pregnant with, and still covered in scabs/scars working their way out.

Loves all humans. Useless as a watchdog. All 75 lbs of her will climb into a strangers lap uninvited if they sit down in our house. She's also a bundle of nerves. Even after 6 years in our house, she still shies away every time she comes in and out of a door, terrified of fireworks, thunder etc.

Insanely dog-aggressive. She'll accept puppies, kittens without problem, but any grown dog, it's on. She's only walked on a chest harness with a 250-lbs test leash/strap. The kids all know if she gets loose and is reported for an incident, dog or human, she's done for. She gets the needle, even if the authorities don't demand it.

[jim in anchorage]

Why would anybody want an AR-15? They were just developed to kill lots of people in a short period of time. You can't hunt with one.

The only people who need 10 round magazines are criminals and cops.

All "cop killer" ammo should be banned.

You're sounding like ^ that guy. Media sensationalism and hyperbole do not usually represent actual truth. Unless of course, you're just lobbing a crap grenade then standing back to see what happens.
Just for information's sake, Here are the official standings for the American Temperament Test society:

http://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/

You'll notice that every breed associated with being a pit bull performed as well as or better then the German Shepard and Saint Bernard...
Now, chances are that every dog tested is likely to come from a caring home. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't have been taken out to be tested in the first place.

I don't get these AR 15 references. Is this supposed to make me anti gun because I think pit bulls are dangerous animals? 

[makattak]

Somebody brought a pit bull into my cousin's trailer park. It detonated, killing 27people.

My cousin's meth lab was destroyed in the explosion.

Here's fistful, attempting the triple lutz of snark

WITH A BACKFLIP TO FINISH!

[makattak]

I don't get these AR 15 references. Is this supposed to make me anti gun because I think pit bulls are dangerous animals?  

I will not get into this argument as others are far more knowledgeable than I. However, I can hopefully make others' arguments clear to you.

They are not saying you are anti-gun because of your opinion of pit bulls.

They are saying your opinion of pit bulls is as uninformed and illogical as anti-gun opinions of the AR-15.

[roo_ster]

I will not get into this argument as others are far more knowledgeable than I. However, I can hopefully make others' arguments clear to you.

They are not saying you are anti-gun because of your opinion of pit bulls.

They are saying your opinion of pit bulls is as uninformed and illogical as anti-gun opinions of the AR-15.

In jim's defense, a whole lot of folk have been killed with AR15 pattern rifles since 11SEP2001.  LOTS more than typical wood & blued steel bolt action rifles.  I can google for articles to support my position.

[Calumus]

My point is that like the AR-15, Bull breeds are about the most popular "model" out there. Both have been vilified by a lazy media looking for sensational headlines. Both are "scary" looking, and have physical traits that make them seem more dangerous then they actually are. Big head, bayonet mount, neither thing actually makes them more likely to hurt someone. When you have a huge number of something, and a very small percentage of them cause harm, its still comes out to a whole number. Most recent stats say that about 1 million dogs are put down in shelters every year. Around 30% of them are Pit or Pit mixes. That's around 300,000 Pits that end up in shelters every year. They only have a 1 in 600 chance of being adopted, so let's say that 100% of Pits that make it to a shelter are put down. Now, what percent of total Pits end up in a shelter? Let's say its 10%. That means there are 3 million Pits in the U.S. In 2014 there were 27 fatal bites by dogs identified as Pit bulls.

http://mprgroup.net/misc/findpit.html

If those numbers are right, that means a Pit Bull has a .0009% chance of killing someone. Let's say a full 50% of Pits end up in a shelter, that means only 600,000 Pits in the country. That gives you a .0045% chance of the dog killing someone. You have a WAY WAY better chance of being killed by your own doctor, or being hit by lightning. You are 24 times more likely to be hit by lightning this year then be killed by a Pit. And please, I'm not trying to be a knob; but the sensationalist media have been on a hard press against these dogs for years. Like people with little interest in guns, the average person only really "knows" what they see on tv or in the papers.

[lee n. field]

Loves all humans. Useless as a watchdog. All 75 lbs of her will climb into a strangers lap uninvited if they sit down in our house. She's also a bundle of nerves.

Next door neighbors had a pit bulldog a couple years ago.  They chained it outside, and otherwise neglected it terribly.  Owners were prone to leave for a couple days at a time.  We made sure Bosco had food and water, and a place out of the sun, and untangled the chain when he'd inevitably get wound around the tree.   Loved us to pieces.

I suspect Bosco was a disappointment to them.

[KD5NRH]

Useless as a watchdog.

We had a random mutt ("dog" was about as close as the vet would guess on lineage, and she wouldn't even commit firmly to that) that we thought the same of; his only normal defensive act was to sleep in front of the door, so anyone wanting to enter would have to find a way to move ~120 lbs of hairball out of the way.

Then one day my aunt and uncle were discussing some event they'd been to in the front yard, and he demonstrated how some guy had tried to punch him.  That dog launched from snoring to flying instantaneously, cleared about 40 yards of lawn and a low fence maybe touching the ground twice and clamped onto his arm.  I really think it went back to sleep right then, too, because it just sort of hung there, not biting in, but just attached until she called it off.  After that, we all felt pretty safe with that one around.

It also delayed a full sized pitbull long enough for granddad to go get a shotgun and deal with it.  The pit couldn't get through all the hair, and we brushed a few pellets of birdshot out later that hadn't made it all the way to the skin.

[gunsmith]

these two video's prove that AR15 bulls are loaded to kill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9fZGEW8F90
ok, only one but it proves that pit15's are designed to kill and there fore must be taken away from people before they are used as weapons of war that can't be on our streets.
......
OK, sorry Jim from Anchorage, you're kinda new here - just so you know- most of us probably love just about all dogs and know its about how dogs are raised.
My friend has a huge great pyrenees - it could probably handle a wolf - its great with people but poorly trained - it loves everybody so much that it can be a pain in the neck because you want to watch TV and it thinks iy needs to be in your lap. I have a friend with a massive pit that's the same way - harmless and loving but so huge it doesn't know why people are so afraid and it is great with kids except its gets so excited that you have to be really strong or love getting knocked over - its full of love but needs training ....

[bedlamite]

Our rescue from Tennessee has some of that lineage in her. She's not pure ABPT, too tall, and too long in the muzzle, and does not have that thick "bully stance" to her, but otherwise looks like a "Pitt". We think she might have been an 'oops', not bred true, and used as a bait/training dog. She'd been in rescue for 6 months to deliver and wean a litter of pups she was pregnant with, and still covered in scabs/scars working their way out.

Loves all humans. Useless as a watchdog. All 75 lbs of her will climb into a strangers lap uninvited if they sit down in our house. She's also a bundle of nerves. Even after 6 years in our house, she still shies away every time she comes in and out of a door, terrified of fireworks, thunder etc.

Insanely dog-aggressive. She'll accept puppies, kittens without problem, but any grown dog, it's on. She's only walked on a chest harness with a 250-lbs test leash/strap. The kids all know if she gets loose and is reported for an incident, dog or human, she's done for. She gets the needle, even if the authorities don't demand it.

Yeah, this one:



 

[MechAg94]

What are the numbers for biting and killing for other breeds?  Kind of pointless with that comparison.  Deaths due to dog attacks are pretty rare considering the numbers.

My point is that like the AR-15, Bull breeds are about the most popular "model" out there. Both have been vilified by a lazy media looking for sensational headlines. Both are "scary" looking, and have physical traits that make them seem more dangerous then they actually are. Big head, bayonet mount, neither thing actually makes them more likely to hurt someone. When you have a huge number of something, and a very small percentage of them cause harm, its still comes out to a whole number. Most recent stats say that about 1 million dogs are put down in shelters every year. Around 30% of them are Pit or Pit mixes. That's around 300,000 Pits that end up in shelters every year. They only have a 1 in 600 chance of being adopted, so let's say that 100% of Pits that make it to a shelter are put down. Now, what percent of total Pits end up in a shelter? Let's say its 10%. That means there are 3 million Pits in the U.S. In 2014 there were 27 fatal bites by dogs identified as Pit bulls.

http://mprgroup.net/misc/findpit.html

If those numbers are right, that means a Pit Bull has a .0009% chance of killing someone. Let's say a full 50% of Pits end up in a shelter, that means only 600,000 Pits in the country. That gives you a .0045% chance of the dog killing someone. You have a WAY WAY better chance of being killed by your own doctor, or being hit by lightning. You are 24 times more likely to be hit by lightning this year then be killed by a Pit. And please, I'm not trying to be a knob; but the sensationalist media have been on a hard press against these dogs for years. Like people with little interest in guns, the average person only really "knows" what they see on tv or in the papers.

[MechAg94]

OK, sorry Jim from Anchorage, you're kinda new here - just so you know- most of us probably love just about all dogs and know its about how dogs are raised.

Yeah, he got jumped on pretty hard.  We have talked about this before without this sort of reaction. 

[Andiron]

We had a random mutt ("dog" was about as close as the vet would guess on lineage, and she wouldn't even commit firmly to that) that we thought the same of; his only normal defensive act was to sleep in front of the door, so anyone wanting to enter would have to find a way to move ~120 lbs of hairball out of the way.

Then one day my aunt and uncle were discussing some event they'd been to in the front yard, and he demonstrated how some guy had tried to punch him.  That dog launched from snoring to flying instantaneously, cleared about 40 yards of lawn and a low fence maybe touching the ground twice and clamped onto his arm.  I really think it went back to sleep right then, too, because it just sort of hung there, not biting in, but just attached until she called it off.  After that, we all felt pretty safe with that one around.

It also delayed a full sized pitbull long enough for granddad to go get a shotgun and deal with it.  The pit couldn't get through all the hair, and we brushed a few pellets of birdshot out later that hadn't made it all the way to the skin.

Sounds like a fine dog.

[Andiron]

Yeah, he got jumped on pretty hard.  We have talked about this before without this sort of reaction.  

Meh.  Cluebat is a learning experience.  Tough love even.

[Fitz]

Heh. This thread is lulzy