This could get Interesting

[Fitz]

So, just so we're clear...

If i'm in danger of "going out of business," then it's OK for me to use property that doesn't belong to me without paying?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

So, just so we're clear...

If i'm in danger of "going out of business," then it's OK for me to use property that doesn't belong to me without paying?

and failure to recognize that makes you a statist   


f/s graze is not blm graze.  the forest service seems to have different standards

[Angel Eyes]

Simple solution; shut down BLM, turn over land actually being used for something helpful to NPS, and sell the rest, with lease holders having first option.

Texas has very little "public" land, and hasn't really suffered for it.

THIS.  In spades.

[charby]

WTF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legislation_governing_the_United_States_Forest_Service

Read the above link.

[charby]

Simple solution; shut down BLM, turn over land actually being used for something helpful to NPS, and sell the rest, with lease holders having first option.

Texas has very little "public" land, and hasn't really suffered for it.

Never happen. NPS will lock it up, remember NPS mission is preserve the land.

Also much of the Fed owned land is for water resources. Private ownership can prevent the water from flowing down stream.

[charby]

Texas has very little "public" land, and hasn't really suffered for it.

Perhaps it is a problem. Over pumping of the Ogallala Aquifer is going to end a lot of cotton farming in Texas panhandle in the next decade or two.

[Balog]

Riparian rights are a sticky issue that the libertarians tend to have a difficult time dealing with.

[charby]

Riparian rights are a sticky issue that the libertarians tend to have a difficult time dealing with.

Very true

[Tallpine]

So, just so we're clear...

If i'm in danger of "going out of business," then it's OK for me to use property that doesn't belong to me without paying?

These "leases" are more like water rights in nature.  They belong to the deeded land.  As previously noted, the "not paying" part dates back to when the BLM tried to take away 90% of his lease.  Then they cancelled the lease altogether so they probably wouldn't have accepted the payment anyway.

Funny, I haven't yet heard of any ranchers complaining about Bundy not paying his way - just misconceptions and bigotry from city folk.  But probably they are all too busy to be online.

[Tallpine]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legislation_governing_the_United_States_Forest_Service

Read the above link.

Which one of those requires them to lie, make up arbitrary rules that don't have anything to do with current conditions, take bribes of dope from certain operators, screw young rangerettes out in the woods, beat their wives, and set fires to burn out private cabins 

[Brad Johnson]

Funny, I haven't yet heard of any ranchers complaining about Bundy not paying his way - just misconceptions and bigotry from city folk.  But probably they are all too busy to be online.

Mostly because, if I understand correctly, he and the other ranchers never had a problem with what they paid for grazing rights.  The problem began when the BLM arbitrarily (*cough* Desert Tortoise *cough*) raised the fees by several orders of magnitude, making them so economically unfeasible that they became, in effect, a de facto ban on grazing.  That is what he had a problem with.

The other ranchers bailed.  He hung around and told the BLM to stick it.  Fast forward to today.

Brad

[Tallpine]

Mostly because, if I understand correctly, he and the other ranchers never had a problem with what they paid for grazing rights.  The problem began when the BLM arbitrarily (*cough* Desert Tortoise *cough*) raised the fees by several orders of magnitude, making them so economically unfeasible that they became, in effect, a de facto ban on grazing.  That is what he had a problem with.

The other ranchers bailed.  He hung around and told the BLM to stick it.  Fast forward to today.

Brad

Yeah, what I've been trying to say    Not unlike the water deal a few years ago (in Oregon?) where they suddenly discovered some rare little fish.  I can't quite wrap my head around "property rights" of the fed.gov.  Did we get a constitutional amendment authorizing all this?  Seems like there is something about forts and gov offices and that's about all 


I'm sure Bundy is a jack-hole.  He would have to be to last this long 

[roo_ster]

Riparian rights are a sticky issue that the libertarians tend to have a difficult time dealing with.

And children.  Hard to keep a civilization going without a proper regard for water & children.

[RocketMan]

I can't quite wrap my head around "property rights" of the fed.gov.  Did we get a constitutional amendment authorizing all this?  Seems like there is something about forts and gov offices and that's about all 

There you go citing the Constitution.  Better watch yourself mister, your betters will have none of that.

[charby]

Which one of those requires them to lie, make up arbitrary rules that don't have anything to do with current conditions, take bribes of dope from certain operators, screw young rangerettes out in the woods, beat their wives, and set fires to burn out private cabins 

Well you didn't say what they did, but you do kvetch most frequently about timber not being cut.

[Tallpine]

Well you didn't say what they did, but you do kvetch most frequently about timber not being cut.

Actually, I said most of that in the post of mine you quoted and then you said it was all required by law.

Screw it, frenchy 

[charby]

Actually, I said most of that in the post of mine you quoted and then you said it was all required by law.

Screw it, frenchy 

I just got to remember that you don't like anyone unless they think exactly like you.

You can find controlling, wife beating, et al type people in any industry.

[charby]

Which one of those requires them to lie, make up arbitrary rules that don't have anything to do with current conditions, take bribes of dope from certain operators, screw young rangerettes out in the woods, beat their wives, and set fires to burn out private cabins 

Did you report this activity to the higher ups?

[gunsmith]

when I was living off grid a couple hours north of Reno, the BLM arbitrarily revoked grazing that had been done for hundred or so yrs.
No reason was given, the Granite mountain range is harsh rangeland, no one camps there, no endangered species ( except for rural people, they're more and more endangered every year )  - so 6 months later into the growing season we had a huge fire, 700, 000 acres I think, severely burned animals seen fleeing the area - the cows used to eat all the brush and minimize the fire danger.

Thanks BLM, good job.

[Perd Hapley]

http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/Sen-Reid-on-Cattle-Battle-Its-not-over/nT5weKnqFkezV14I5GhESg.cspx

Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it.

Yeah, only Washington bureaucrats get to do that.

And does that mean that non-citizens are allowed to break the law? 'Cause that would explain some things.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

when I was living off grid a couple hours north of Reno, the BLM arbitrarily revoked grazing that had been done for hundred or so yrs.
No reason was given, the Granite mountain range is harsh rangeland, no one camps there, no endangered species ( except for rural people, they're more and more endangered every year )  - so 6 months later into the growing season we had a huge fire, 700, 000 acres I think, severely burned animals seen fleeing the area - the cows used to eat all the brush and minimize the fire danger.

Thanks BLM, good job.

You tslking about the Yarnell fire?

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[gunsmith]

You tslking about the Yarnell fire?

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it was called the smoke creek fire but i can't find any links-it was in the middle of nowhere, but only one ranch suffered damage - no reason I can fathom other than stupidity to disallow the cows walking around eating fuel.

[gunsmith]

So, just so we're clear...

If i'm in danger of "going out of business," then it's OK for me to use property that doesn't belong to me without paying?

if you're a resident of NV or the USA - it can be argued it does belong to you- really its just a desert wasteland with some turtles rabbits and cows -

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

it was called the smoke creek fire but i can't find any links-it was in the middle of nowhere, but only one ranch suffered damage - no reason I can fathom other than stupidity to disallow the cows walking around eating fuel.

  no reason not to pay the fee. You know how much it is?

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[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if you're a resident of NV or the USA - it can be argued it does belong to you- really its just a desert wasteland with some turtles rabbits and cows -

Thats right its public land. Not to be confused with "his ranch"

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