Author Topic: United Airlines initiates self-immolation  (Read 43548 times)

Angel Eyes

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #225 on: April 13, 2017, 01:48:00 PM »
United Airlines:  We'll treat you like a king*










*Rodney King
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Angel Eyes

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #226 on: April 13, 2017, 01:59:51 PM »
Another reason to avoid UAL:

http://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/scorpion-bites-passenger-on-plane?xid=TrueAnthem_Twitter

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After spending two weeks on vacation in Mexico, Richard and Linda Bell were on a United Airlines flight home from Houston to Calgary on Sunday. They thought their adventure was over β€” until a scorpion fell from the overhead compartment and on to Richard.
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BobR

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #227 on: April 13, 2017, 02:35:13 PM »
Another reason to avoid UAL:

http://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/scorpion-bites-passenger-on-plane?xid=TrueAnthem_Twitter


I really don't think the scorpion actually delivered a "bite" to the passenger. But what do I know? ;)

bob

After reading, the article actually says "stings".  Although later it says "This is not the first time a scorpion had made its way onto the cabin and bit a passenger." Some people who write (web address title)  should be beaten just for the hell of it, just ask Irwin!

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KD5NRH

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #229 on: April 13, 2017, 02:49:28 PM »
I think their market share will do fine. The media and everyone and their brother are making a circus of this right now. In the end, United is a large carrier.
Southworst is notorious for overbooking.  Hence, my free $800 for my bump to Charleston flight.

However, they're carrying twice the passengers of United with vastly fewer complaints, so obviously they're handling the customer side of it a lot better.  SWA didn't get that big by chance, and this is a good opportunity for them to leverage their customer satisfaction record to pull in more customers, and thus eventually more hubs.  They're almost certainly figuring out more ways to do that right now, though IMO, hiring whoever came up with the "we beat the competition, not you" slogan within hours should be step one.

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Again, it's not overbooked.

If you can't fit something you know you're likely to need, then you're over capacity.  You might get lucky, but it's like a trip loadout that requires leaving your spare tire at home; if you get a flat, you have no one to blame but yourself, and you better be prepared to offer whatever it takes to get someone to help out with your screwup.

Fly320s

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #230 on: April 13, 2017, 03:59:17 PM »
However, they're carrying twice the passengers of United with vastly fewer complaints, so obviously they're handling the customer side of it a lot better. 

I wonder if passenger expectations has anything to do with that.  Southwest isn't known for frills.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #231 on: April 13, 2017, 04:47:53 PM »
I wonder if passenger expectations has anything to do with that.  Southwest isn't known for frills.

Entirely possible. It also helps that Southwest intentionally pokes fun at themselves, including flight crews and cabin personnel wading into the fray. In my experience their crews are usually the ringleaders when it comes to applying a little well-timed humor and snark. It lets pax "let their hair down a little" and un-stick whatever pickle has them puckered. Setting the tone that way makes folks a lot more tolerant of shortcomings.

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KD5NRH

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #232 on: April 13, 2017, 05:01:11 PM »
I wonder if passenger expectations has anything to do with that.  Southwest isn't known for frills.

More that they're not known for low-return-on-investment frills.  The kind of crap 90% of passengers don't even notice and 99% don't feel their experience is improved by gets axed first.  Even if a pretty framed motivational poster only cost $50, those things add up.  Frankly, a lot of that stuff is really as much for the employees as the customers; how much does the wood paneling and marble floor in a bank really matter to its customers?

The biggest part, IMO - and apparently in a huge number of air travelers' opinions too, is people that seem to genuinely enjoy and take pride in their jobs.  It's the same thing that works so well for QuikTrip, at least around here; when you feel like the guy at the counter is happy to be there, (and when he shows it by keeping the men's room spotless and fully stocked for your 5-hours-on-the-road emergency) it's a lot easier to be happy to be there yourself.

just Warren

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #233 on: April 13, 2017, 05:03:09 PM »
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how much does the wood paneling and marble floor in a bank really matter to its customers?

Historically, quite a lot.
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MechAg94

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #234 on: April 13, 2017, 05:59:34 PM »
I think expectations mean something when it comes to financial institutions.  You want your bank to look prosperous and professional and like it is expecting to still be there in 50 years.  A bank that looks like a pay day loan place in a temporary trailer will not give customers much confidence.
β€œIt is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

KD5NRH

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #235 on: April 13, 2017, 06:20:29 PM »
I think expectations mean something when it comes to financial institutions.  You want your bank to look prosperous and professional and like it is expecting to still be there in 50 years.  A bank that looks like a pay day loan place in a temporary trailer will not give customers much confidence.

Big difference between looking permanent and looking like Tony Stark's weekend home.  I've been in a few that were doing pretty good at a "classy but not wasteful" look.

Considering the number that have put in hanging ceilings that cover up gorgeous hand painted plaster ceilings and chandeliers, only to try to make up for it with glass, steel and artwork, it almost seems they're trying harder to spend money than to look nice.  Did a wiring job once in a bank that was built in the 1920s, and it had the hanging ceiling screwed to plasterwork that would have made it a tourist stop if they hadn't covered it. (And damaged it plenty in the process.) The chandeliers hidden in that space showed signs of having been reworked, probably around the 1960s judging from the wiring, but were almost certainly original.

freakazoid

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #236 on: April 13, 2017, 09:47:21 PM »
Look at the world around you.  When you go to buy a product or service do you factor in price?  Do you look for a cheaper option?  Do you use coupons or discount codes?  Maybe you don't, but I bet 90% of people do.

When buying a product I'm pretty sure most people factor in the quality of it, and coupons don't affect the quality.
I always look for the cheaper option when it comes to flights, but for my wife she has to be comfortable.

Not to mention that Doc *expletive deleted*bag was screwing with the 40-50 people on the plane he was on.  His antics caused a delay that may have costed those 40-50 people on his plane to miss connections.

Then you can blame every single other person on that flight. 40-50 people and all they needed was one more volunteer. They are just as guilty then for causing the delay.

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And yeah, he's a *expletive deleted*bag.  "I'm a physician."  I'm more important the the rest of you peons.  I'm ready to barf at the number of people that went into "They shouldn't bump a doctor, He's important !!"  Nope, he's just like everyone else on that plane, no better, no worst.  He played bump-off bingo and lost.

It's like he has patients or something to attend to.

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Plus, let's not lose sight of the entire Federal Felony he committed.  You know the one they clearly state before every flight.  About tampering with the bathroom smoke detectors not following the instructions of the crew.  That's why the police were called.  

I'm just going to go off on a limb here, but I'm betting that that is not absolute.

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and finally:

IT WAS NOT OVERBOOKED

Then what was the problem?

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contrary to what has been repeated in the media.   The airline needed to re-position a crew.  That takes priority over everything (if you read the fine print that you agree to when you click on "I accept", when you purchase your ticket.)   *expletive deleted*it happens, if they don't get enough people to accept the goodies offered to be bumped, then the computer gets to pick.  Those 40-50 people all took their chances, 4 lost.  3 accepted the results, grabbed their lovely parting gifts and went on their way.  One decided he was more damn important then everyone on at least 2 aircraft.   *expletive deleted*ck him.

Should of found some other way to do it besides *expletive deleted*ing over someone who paid for their ticket to get to a certain destination at a certain time.

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Oh, that's another thing.  All those people that are screaming "What about his patients on Monday".  Well, it's *expletive deleted*ing Thursday, and Doc Dumbass *expletive deleted*bag is still in the hospital here in Chicago.  So that's four day's worth of patients he's not seeing, screwing up their lives, instead of one days (or less). 

So that's four days that United and the cops that beat him has screwed over other peoples lives.


You know, when people book a flight it's generally because they need to get somewhere fast by a certain time. If not you would have people jumping at the opportunity every time their is an offer to be bumped off with compensation.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #237 on: April 13, 2017, 10:04:51 PM »
I get that there are all sorts of caveats and disclaimers and legalese in the fine print and that by buying an airline ticket you are basically giving the airline the right to deplane your ass at 30,000 feet for any reason or no reason at all. (Which is why I don't fly)
When I pay for a service and my money has been accepted I do not think is is unreasonable to expect to receive that service more or less in the manner it was sold.
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Scout26

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #238 on: April 13, 2017, 11:02:07 PM »
If you can't fit something you know you're likely to need, then you're over capacity.  You might get lucky, but it's like a trip loadout that requires leaving your spare tire at home; if you get a flat, you have no one to blame but yourself, and you better be prepared to offer whatever it takes to get someone to help out with your screwup.

Are you dense or just being obtuse ??  So you're suggesting that the airline set aside ~10 seats (average crew for a 747) "Just-in-case" on every flight.   Tell me again about your background in the Aviation industry.  Because you obviously are smarted then everyone else who worked in it.  There was a saying we had in the Army.  "Stay in your lane."   And your are way, way outside of yours. 



When buying a product I'm pretty sure most people factor in the quality of it, and coupons don't affect the quality.
I always look for the cheaper option when it comes to flights, but for my wife she has to be comfortable.

Then you can blame every single other person on that flight. 40-50 people and all they needed was one more volunteer. They are just as guilty then for causing the delay.
   IIRC, they got zero volunteers.  SO the computer held a lottery.  4 people lost, 3 accepted the results and Doc *expletive deleted*bag decided he was "too special" to lose. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJU4PfbcjtM

It's like he has patients or something to attend to.

And nobody else had important things to attend to ??  There could have been people going to visit a dying relative.  Company sales reps that need that sale tomorrow to get that big sale to make their quarter, or beat the competition and keep their company solvent.    Guess what, he could get another doc to cover for him.   I've been seen by all three nephrologists in my doctor's practice.  He and his kids have been sick on the days I have appointments, or he's been called into the hospital for this, that or other emergency.  Guess what?  I'm still here.  I still get seen, and we continue to march. [


I'm just going to go off on a limb here, but I'm betting that that is not absolute.

Give it a test on you next flight and report back on your findings. .

Then what was the problem?
Last minute need to reposition a crew.   The flight was full.  Not overbooked.  Overbooked means they sold more tickets then they had seats available.  Up until the need to reposition the crew occurred, which could not be foreseen when they started selling tickets.
 
Should of found some other way to do it besides *expletive deleted*ing over someone who paid for their ticket to get to a certain destination at a certain time.

BZZZZZZZZZZZT   WRONG.    Again read the fine print.  The airline agrees to move your carcass from point A to point B.  You get there, when you get there.  There's no guarantee as when that will be.  (See weather, especially in Chicago, and how it screws up flights schedules royally.)   Again, all that's in the fine print above the "I accept" button when you buy your ticket.

So that's four days that United and the cops that beat him has screwed over other peoples lives.

Point of Order.  United employees never touched him.    And had he cooperated, he'd have been seeing his patients since sometime Monday or Tuesday at the latest.   Watch the video.  When officer friendly says it's time to go, it's time to go.   No here on the board shows any pity to some douchbag out on the street that decides he's not going to obey the cops and gets tuned up in the process.   The reason five days (it's now Friday) of patients haven't been seen is because of the Doc *expletive deleted*bag.   He needs to take responsibility for what happened.  His refusal to cooperate is what got his ass beat.  Notice that the other 3 passengers who complied did NOT get their asses beat.  Only Doc "I fly from LA 12 hours" Special *expletive deleted*bag Snowflake.

You know, when people book a flight it's generally because they need to get somewhere fast by a certain time. If not you would have people jumping at the opportunity every time their is an offer to be bumped off with compensation.

Which is why they have processes that they use (let the computer pick) if they don't get volunteers.   Does it suck.  Yeah, when it happens.  But it doesn't happen all that often.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #239 on: April 13, 2017, 11:41:50 PM »
The overbooked thing has made its way permanently into the popular lore, along with George Zimmerman hunting black kids, and "I can see Russia from my house."
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KD5NRH

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #240 on: April 13, 2017, 11:49:29 PM »

freakazoid

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #241 on: April 14, 2017, 06:48:14 AM »
IIRC, they got zero volunteers.  SO the computer held a lottery.  4 people lost, 3 accepted the results and Doc *expletive deleted*bag decided he was "too special" to lose. 

And no one volunteered. I guess all those *expletive deleted*bags thought they were too special.

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Give it a test on you next flight and report back on your findings.

They would have to give the order in order to test it.

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BZZZZZZZZZZZT   WRONG.    Again read the fine print.  The airline agrees to move your carcass from point A to point B.  You get there, when you get there.  There's no guarantee as when that will be.  (See weather, especially in Chicago, and how it screws up flights schedules royally.)   Again, all that's in the fine print above the "I accept" button when you buy your ticket.

No, not wrong. They should of found some other way besides *expletive deleted*ing over someone who paid for their ticket to get to a certain destination at a certain time. Weather wasn't the reason for this one.

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Point of Order.  United employees never touched him.

Clearly they didn't have to touch him.

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And had he cooperated, he'd have been seeing his patients since sometime Monday or Tuesday at the latest.   Watch the video.  When officer friendly says it's time to go, it's time to go.

Respect my authoritah!

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His refusal to cooperate is what got his ass beat.

He got his ass beat... and a broken nose, a concussion, and two missing teeth; because the airlines *expletive deleted*ed up and decided the best way to correct their mistake was to *expletive deleted*ck over some paying customers.

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But it doesn't happen all that often.

Shouldn't ever happen.
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makattak

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #242 on: April 14, 2017, 08:05:25 AM »
https://www.inc.com/cynthia-than/the-controversial-united-airlines-flight-was-not-overbooked-and-why-that-matters.html

A take I've been seeing in other places as well.

Seems United might not have the right to bump you for their employees. Since the flight wasn't "overbooked" AND the doctor clearly had an assigned, reserved seat, they had to prioritize him over employees. **(In this take: I'm no lawyer, so this is a summation of what I've read, not an endorsement of it.)**

If that is the case, this incident just got worse. Not only are they going to take the public relations hit that has already started, the legal fees will be significant, and it would even be possible that criminal charges could be brought.

I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Fly320s

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #243 on: April 14, 2017, 08:54:09 AM »
https://www.inc.com/cynthia-than/the-controversial-united-airlines-flight-was-not-overbooked-and-why-that-matters.html

A take I've been seeing in other places as well.

Seems United might not have the right to bump you for their employees. Since the flight wasn't "overbooked" AND the doctor clearly had an assigned, reserved seat, they had to prioritize him over employees. **(In this take: I'm no lawyer, so this is a summation of what I've read, not an endorsement of it.)**

If that is the case, this incident just got worse. Not only are they going to take the public relations hit that has already started, the legal fees will be significant, and it would even be possible that criminal charges could be brought.

Well, that is an interesting twist.  I wonder how it will play out in court.  Every airline I have worked for has had to bump passengers for last-minute crew movement.  I've bumped passengers this year for that problem.  It happens often after a big weather system cancels hundreds of flights and it takes us days to get back to normal operations.  We also have to bump passengers going to Caribbean islands when the flight is planned to take longer than the pilots are allowed to fly, so we have to carry extra pilots.

Look at it from this perspective.  UAL bumped and inconvenienced four passengers on one flight instead of 50-70 on another flight.  If the crew didn't make it to Louisville for the next flight, would those passengers get the same compensation as the four bumped from ORD?  Would they understand and be patient?  In my experience, no. 
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makattak

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #244 on: April 14, 2017, 08:58:04 AM »
Well, that is an interesting twist.  I wonder how it will play out in court.  Every airline I have worked for has had to bump passengers for last-minute crew movement.  I've bumped passengers this year for that problem.  It happens often after a big weather system cancels hundreds of flights and it takes us days to get back to normal operations.  We also have to bump passengers going to Caribbean islands when the flight is planned to take longer than the pilots are allowed to fly, so we have to carry extra pilots.

Look at it from this perspective.  UAL bumped and inconvenienced four passengers on one flight instead of 50-70 on another flight.  If the crew didn't make it to Louisville for the next flight, would those passengers get the same compensation as the four bumped from ORD?  Would they understand and be patient?  In my experience, no. 

Honestly, as I've said before, I thought the decision to put the crew in place was a correct one.

The problem was the implementation. Yes, MOST TIMES, forcing people from the plane works well enough, but is not optimal. People should go voluntarily.

THIS time, it was particularly bad. For this reason, it ought always to be "Volunteers" not "Voluntolds".
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Fly320s

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #245 on: April 14, 2017, 09:16:38 AM »
Honestly, as I've said before, I thought the decision to put the crew in place was a correct one.

The problem was the implementation. Yes, MOST TIMES, forcing people from the plane works well enough, but is not optimal. People should go voluntarily.

THIS time, it was particularly bad. For this reason, it ought always to be "Volunteers" not "Voluntolds".

I agree 100%.  The sticky wicket comes into play when an airline is correct in its decision to remove a passenger, but the passenger refuses to leave.  That will lead to a physical confrontation, and for that the police will need to be involved.  How much force should be used then?  What is reasonable?  I guess that is for the courts to decide.
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lupinus

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #246 on: April 14, 2017, 10:15:56 AM »
I agree 100%.  The sticky wicket comes into play when an airline is correct in its decision to remove a passenger, but the passenger refuses to leave.  That will lead to a physical confrontation, and for that the police will need to be involved.  How much force should be used then?  What is reasonable?  I guess that is for the courts to decide.
I would say the correct response is to keep upping the offer until you have enough takers. More flies with honey than vinegar and all that. If the highest usual offer isn't enough, get someone up the food chain on the phone to authorize upping the offer. Hell, take bids from the folks that would consider it and toss those out for authorization when making said phone call. At some point either you'll find the right bait or it'll be worth switching fishin holes.

Yes, *expletive deleted*it happens. Yes, they probably had the technical right to tell the guy to get off the plane or you'll be removed. And yeah, arguing with popo was pretty stupid but police shouldn't have been involved in the first place. They (probably) had the right to be dicks, opted to be dicks instead of playing nice, and are now calling foul when people are calling them for being dicks. If you're gonna be a dick, don't bitch when you're called on it.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #247 on: April 14, 2017, 10:52:47 AM »
I would say the correct response is to keep upping the offer until you have enough takers. More flies with honey than vinegar and all that. If the highest usual offer isn't enough, get someone up the food chain on the phone to authorize upping the offer.

I'm seeing conflicting info on it, but it appears that might be kiboshed by gov regs on what the maximum is, and/or how it is offered. I agree that the above is probably the most efficient way to do it when considering the big picture, but it sounds like gov would have to get out of the way first.
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makattak

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Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #248 on: April 14, 2017, 11:02:37 AM »
I'm seeing conflicting info on it, but it appears that might be kiboshed by gov regs on what the maximum is, and/or how it is offered. I agree that the above is probably the most efficient way to do it when considering the big picture, but it sounds like gov would have to get out of the way first.

What I'm seeing is (SURPRISE!) no one really understands what the regulations mean and people are arguing about it.

Good job on clarity, .gov!
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

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  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: United Airlines initiates self-immolation
« Reply #249 on: April 14, 2017, 11:21:31 AM »

...
It lets pax "let their hair down a little" and un-stick whatever pickle has them puckered.

...

Brad

OK, I've seen "pax" before in that odd usage in this thread, had to look it up, found this:
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/25162/where-does-pax-word-come-from

I may actually join that site.

Just FYI.

Terry, Groundlubber
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.