Biker gang shootout in Waco

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Found this
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article21513858.html

[Scout26]

When they throw out a number of "weapons" and list knives, brass knuckles, chains, and body armor (really?!?!) then you can be pretty sure that they didn't get many guns as they are trying to gin up the numbers.

If you arrest 170 people, and search them and their rides, then I wouldn't be surprised by anything they found. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The ones that are real interesting are the ones they found hidden


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[Ron]

Personally I don't know what to believe.

More eyewitness accounts, video and timelines of events from un-invested third parties would offer some clarity.

I find it hard to believe the police weren't recording the whole incident from multiple angles.

High quality video recording devices are cheap cheap cheap.  

The only weapons I care about are the ones brandished and used during the commission of a crime. 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

What benefit do the cops get from showing you and me the video? I notice twin peaks is showing only some video


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[brimic]

They have 100 guns seized? I haven't seen that yet. Granted you could find 100 guns by stopping 82 vehicles on 35, but I've yet to see a news report that 100 guns have been been collected. I've seen news reports that 100 "weapons" were found, and then number reduced to "50", and then news reports that "1,000 weapons" (about the amount that I'd expect to be in any large resturaunt at an Amish meeting), then reduced to "500", then "100" again, then "50".

They are just trying to figure out the proper level of disinformation to put out,  and failing miserably at it. The police and feds are probably still trying to get their storyline massaged perfectly before releasing any real info.

[Ron]

What benefit do the cops get from showing you and me the video? I notice twin peaks is showing only some video
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I don't need to see the video (except to actually form an intelligent opinion about guilt on this) but I hope the judge and jury see a lot of video.

[Balog]

Personally I don't know what to believe.

More eyewitness accounts, video and timelines of events from un-invested third parties would offer some clarity.

I find it hard to believe the police weren't recording the whole incident from multiple angles.

High quality video recording devices are cheap cheap cheap.  

The only weapons I care about are the ones brandished and used during the commission of a crime. 

The third party accounts I have seen corroborate the cop's story, of a violent brawl starting inside then spilling out with bikers shooting at each other. And unless they have since reversed it there were a bunch of folks stabbed as well. Did the cops do that too?

[Boomhauer]

The third party accounts I have seen corroborate the cop's story, of a violent brawl starting inside then spilling out with bikers shooting at each other. And unless they have since reversed it there were a bunch of folks stabbed as well. Did the cops do that too?

Whaaaaaatttt are you dare suggesting that opposing groups of hardened, violent thugs would go at each other at the drop of a hat like they have been known to do in the past? Surely that is not possible...

[Fitz]

Was this a bike night, or an actual COC&I meeting?

If the latter, I'm done with CVMA, because I've warned them before about participating (and the consequences)

ETA: Yeah, actual COC meeting.

Last one had a fight broke out too, i was there for that one.

If CVMA insists on attending these, I'm done. Don't need the association with this kind of activity. They would have been in Waco had it not conflicted with another event

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I don't need to see the video (except to actually form an intelligent opinion about guilt on this) but I hope the judge and jury see a lot of video.

Me too


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[wmenorr67]

Was this a bike night, or an actual COC&I meeting?

If the latter, I'm done with CVMA, because I've warned them before about participating (and the consequences)

ETA: Yeah, actual COC meeting.

Last one had a fight broke out too, i was there for that one.

If CVMA insists on attending these, I'm done. Don't need the association with this kind of activity. They would have been in Waco had it not conflicted with another event

Fitz it was a CoC meeting.

We have them in Oklahoma once a quarter or every other month.  As far as I know there may have been fights at these events but nothing like this.  The next scheduled one for here in in July and it is in Tulsa.  Too bad it happens to be on drill weekend or I would attend.

http://okcoc.com/ Link to Oklahoma's CoC page.

[bedlamite]

When they throw out a number of "weapons" and list knives, brass knuckles, chains, and body armor (really?!?!) then you can be pretty sure that they didn't get many guns as they are trying to gin up the numbers.

If you arrest 170 people, and search them and their rides, then I wouldn't be surprised by anything they found. 

It also wouldn't surprise me if they counted the standard armored motorcycle jacket as body armor, or something like this under a plain leather jacket:



http://www.amazon.com/Fox-Racing-Deflector-Motocross-Motorcycle/dp/B005G6469Y

[MechAg94]

Found this
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article21513858.html

Saw this quote in that article.  I am curious what evidence is required to prove this?  Guess it depends on the local jury.

The arrested bikers have all been charged with engaging in organized crime, and each is being held on $1 million bond. It is unclear how long they will remain in custody.

[KD5NRH]

The breakdown Wednesday evening was 118 handguns, 1 AK-47, 157 knives and 43 “others.”

Wonder if the AK was the one stuffed down a toilet, or if that was a bioweapon.

[wmenorr67]

Saw this quote in that article.  I am curious what evidence is required to prove this?  Guess it depends on the local jury.

Waiting for someone to get a big name attorney in there and start dropping motions.

How long can someone be held without an indictment in Texas.  Got to imagine that before long some of those arrested would have an attorney all over this.  Especially those that are guilty just by being there.   

[Fitz]

Apparently at least one of those killed was not affiliated with any of the clubs, but an association member, 65 year old ex-marine, no record, etc.

From what i understand the club that instigated the fighting was not part of the CoC meeting, but showed up. Some kind of long running beef.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

My understanding as well. The cossacks showed up in force. Make me think even more given their casualties that they jumped and the cops settled them.
As to the associate killed there is an expression.  " lay down with dogs you get fleas."
I had a 1%er move in next to me in 80. We had certain similar interests.  A loose neighborly relationship developed in spite of my collection of riceburners. We actually bonded over our dogs more than anything. I did a couple of small favors for him and he was appreciative .I got a chance to see how the lifestyle could suck you in.  I was fortunate that events conspired to end my association or mighta gotten in real deep. It was a big thrill to be 19 and a part of that group.  I lacked at that age the discernment to see the dangers

[Fitz]

My understanding as well. The cossacks showed up in force. Make me think even more given their casualties that they jumped and the cops settled them.
As to the associate killed there is an expression.  " lay down with dogs you get fleas."
I had a 1%er move in next to me in 80. We had certain similar interests.  A loose neighborly relationship developed in spite of my collection of riceburners. We actually bonded over our dogs more than anything. I did a couple of small favors for him and he was appreciative .I got a chance to see how the lifestyle could suck you in.  I was fortunate that events conspired to end my association or mighta gotten in real deep. It was a big thrill to be 19 and a part of that group.  I lacked at that age the discernment to see the dangers

According to some folks i know who are well connected with the waco situation, most of the clubs there were not even the ones with beef.

I'm starting to think that this was an invasion by cossacks, that police were aware of / deliberately awaiting, and that a lot of people were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.


But yeah, good reason to either A.) not go to a CoC meeting, or B.) as a CoC, stop having meetings in public open to everyone. Each club sends one rep.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Clubs can be tricky. I would not put it past the bandidos to have set up the Cossacks and used the cops to do some of their trigger work. The machinations of the outlaw world are convoluted even by my standards


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[MillCreek]

ATF report on LE and military members of OMG.  Interesting.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/05/22/atf-report-warned-military-government-membership-outlaw-motorcycle-gangs/

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

The pagan killed in Delaware was,a marine

[Strings]

And BACA is listed as one of the CoC member clubs. SERIOUS criminal organization

In many states, we're required to join the CoC to fly our colors. And yes, given what our colors represent, they ARE kinda sacred to us

[MechAg94]

There was mention earlier of head and torso shots on the deceased.  I thought someone (probably one of the links) was using that to suggest intent to kill bikers.  Do any of you think that is true?  With medical care theoretically close by, there are not many other parts of the body you can get shot where you will die quickly.  Not to mention that most people are trained or taught to aim for center of body mass.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Be interesting to see a diagram. If the cops were really set up head shots might be what they got if the bandidos were taking cover and shooting from behind cars. They were 8 of the 9 fatalities. Be interesting to see what the breakdown of the wounded's affiliations were


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