Author Topic: TEA Party losses  (Read 20229 times)

Scout26

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Re: Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2014, 01:44:59 AM »
No, I see a slew of them not making it past primaries. And if you don't see it, then see my previous comment.

I'm not cheerful, particularly about this. The GOP and conservatives have blinders on.


Or , we see them get torpedoed and marginalized, and their supporters blamed when they lose.

And that's because the vast majority can't pull in the funding like the incumbent RINO's can.  
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roo_ster

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2014, 01:53:40 AM »
I'm not so sure. After all, wasn't Ron doing better in the preference pools against Obama than any other GOP choice?

Indeed.  Ron was both the most interesting candidate and the only candidate able to bridge political divides and have some truly diverse support.

It has come down to who can rally the base and get turnout.  The party that rallies the base, wins.

The Dems will get 90%+ of the black vote even if Obama & Hilary & Biden are filmed sacrificing black babies to Moloch on the White House lawn.  And the "war against women" deal had almost all the single women looking for a sugar daddy in Uncle Sam to protect their right to erase the mistake they made after drinking too much and sleeping with a loser in a state of inebriation.  And the cries of "Racist!" are never ending.  And they are the generals of the FSA.

And how did the GOP rally the base?  2008: McCain, who despises the base and has made no secret of it.  2012: Romney, who has video evidence of him debating Ted Kennedy as the "almost as liberal" candidate and set up socialized medicine in Taxachussetts.

McCain and Romney and the like may be in-line with teh big donors to the GOP, but they will never turn out enough of the base to win POTUS.
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Fitz

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Re:
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2014, 02:02:48 AM »
Meanwhile... The GOP establishment and a lot of republicans said things like "I'd like Ron, but he's kinda crazy with the drugs and the foreign policy"

Sigh.
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Balog

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2014, 03:03:01 AM »
Indeed.  Ron was both the most interesting candidate and the only candidate able to bridge political divides and have some truly diverse support.

It has come down to who can rally the base and get turnout.  The party that rallies the base, wins.

The Dems will get 90%+ of the black vote even if Obama & Hilary & Biden are filmed sacrificing black babies to Moloch on the White House lawn.  And the "war against women" deal had almost all the single women looking for a sugar daddy in Uncle Sam to protect their right to erase the mistake they made after drinking too much and sleeping with a loser in a state of inebriation.  And the cries of "Racist!" are never ending.  And they are the generals of the FSA.

And how did the GOP rally the base?  2008: McCain, who despises the base and has made no secret of it.  2012: Romney, who has video evidence of him debating Ted Kennedy as the "almost as liberal" candidate and set up socialized medicine in Taxachussetts.

McCain and Romney and the like may be in-line with teh big donors to the GOP, but they will never turn out enough of the base to win POTUS.

Don't forget Bush the First and Dole. And Dubya expanded the fed.gov more than Clinton.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2014, 04:12:51 AM »
Don't forget Bush the First and Dole. And Dubya expanded the fed.gov more than Clinton.

Dubya won reelection, so you can't list him among GOP failures to rally the base.
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Ron

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Re:
« Reply #80 on: May 24, 2014, 08:53:22 AM »
Meanwhile... The GOP establishment and a lot of republicans said things like "I'd like Ron, but he's kinda crazy with the drugs and the foreign policy"

Sigh.

and our establishment approved drug policy and foreign policy is going along so swimmingly...

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roo_ster

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #81 on: May 24, 2014, 09:34:00 AM »
Dubya won reelection, so you can't list him among GOP failures to rally the base.

GW one first against Al Gore and did seem to combine some socon and fiscon chops in the same package.  Gore was sort of "Clinton III: Charismatic Vacuum."  Then he won in the middle of the GWOT Global War To Civilize Goat Herding Pederasts against Kerry.  While GWB was mishandling the strategy and objectives, Kerry looked ready to hand over foreign policy to our enemies.
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roo_ster

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Balog

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #82 on: May 24, 2014, 11:05:13 AM »
Dubya won reelection, so you can't list him among GOP failures to rally the base.

9/11 got him re elected.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #83 on: May 24, 2014, 11:15:56 AM »
9/11 got him re elected.


 :facepalm: He won two elections, so you can't demonstrate from that any failure to rally the base. As for 9/11, it also set the stage for everything that turned so many against him, or at least weakened his appeal. The Patriot Act, the Iraq war, the non-capture of bin Laden, the TSA, Dept of Homeland Color-coded Threat Levels, and so on.

Roo_ster was talking about RINO candidates failing to rally the base. We can speculate about how Bush may have performed in that other, non-9/11 universe, or whether he would have had a better re-election through moar conservatism, but that's just talk.
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MillCreek

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2014, 11:43:32 AM »
Reading these comments make me wonder: how do people here define the Republican or Democratic base? 
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charby

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2014, 11:50:14 AM »
Reading these comments make me wonder: how do people here define the Republican or Democratic base? 

Ditto, probably personally biased as all get out.

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Perd Hapley

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2014, 12:03:38 PM »
Ditto, probably personally biased as all get out.

Sure.


But it's also based on the fact that McCain, Romney, et al, lost. So either the base didn't turn out, or the swing voters didn't go for them. Either way, a losing strategy.
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MillCreek

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2014, 12:50:48 PM »
Maybe Mr. Santorum's new book (which I will look for at the library) is correct: the new base of the Republican party is blue-collar whites in the South and Midwest.
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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Perd Hapley

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2014, 12:55:58 PM »
How much does the candidate, or his position, really matter though, and how much of it is about what the establishment press thinks we should talk about? I think the E.P. still decides what news we're going to discuss, even if they no longer have a monopoly on how it's reported.

Would Paul, or anyone else, have been sabotaged just as effectively as Romney? Here's just one example. The "war on women" meme began with Stephanopoulos asking a question, from the clear blue, about regulating birth control. Could he not just as easily have started the ball rolling, had Paul been sitting there, instead of Romney? All they found on Romney was "binders full of women." Surely, they could have found something equally as nontroversial and non-misogynistic from Ron Paul.
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Re:
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2014, 06:24:18 PM »
Question: Even if the Establishment Repubs won the primaries, what guarantees that the winner will get the Tea Party votes needed to win the election?

The Tea Party may yet flex their strongest muscles by staying on the couch....

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Perd Hapley

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Re:
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2014, 08:06:00 PM »
Question: Even if the Establishment Repubs won the primaries, what guarantees that the winner will get the Tea Party votes needed to win the election?

The Tea Party may yet flex their strongest muscles by staying on the couch....

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Obviously, nothing. Anachronism notwithstanding, the Tea Party has been sitting out presidential elections since 2008. 
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Re: Re:
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2014, 09:21:53 PM »
Question: Even if the Establishment Repubs won the primaries, what guarantees that the winner will get the Tea Party votes needed to win the election?

The Tea Party may yet flex their strongest muscles by staying on the couch....

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


And then the establishment blames voters for not getting excited about their guy
Fitz

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Scout26

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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Balog

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2014, 04:17:19 PM »
It's almost as if we shouldn't make sweeping generalizations about a national movement based on local elections that may or may not be decided based on the national movement angle...
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

brimic

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2014, 04:17:47 PM »
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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charby

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #95 on: May 28, 2014, 04:39:40 PM »
It's almost as if we shouldn't make sweeping generalizations about a national movement based on local elections that may or may not be decided based on the national movement angle...

Lets see what happens after next weeks primaries. I know some are going to be interesting, like Iowa where one person has to get at least 35% of the vote to declared the winner if there is more than two on the ballot. If not then it goes to convention.

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2014, 06:36:28 PM »
Conjecture:
What I hear some saying is that the Republican party is simply too dumb to actually put forth candidates which are as conservative as the voting public really wants.  That the weak centrist RINO's they field get weak votes, but a strong conservative would get a stronger vote.

This is wrong.

The Republican party studies their market carefully, just like any sensible business does.  And they have determined the opposite - that strong conservative candidates are less electable then weak willed centrists.  Their leadership aren't idiots - they field candidates who have the best chance of being elected.  Consider it a reflection of the state of the modern American voting public.
Ayup.  Successful politicians are not stupid.  They know their trade well.  They know which voting blocks can be relied on to win elections.  And they know which blocks can't be relied on.  Increasingly, as conservatives, we're moving ourselves into the 'unreliable' category.

Put yourself in the politcritter's shoes.  Take a good look around on conservative forums, or blogs, or whatever, and ask yourself if these are the voters you'd want to stake your career (and reputation, and family fortune) on as a politician.  The answer, if we're being honest, is probably a great big NO.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 06:41:44 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

Balog

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2014, 12:05:02 AM »
Ayup.  Successful politicians are not stupid.  They know their trade well.  They know which voting blocks can be relied on to win elections.  And they know which blocks can't be relied on.  Increasingly, as conservatives, we're moving ourselves into the 'unreliable' category.

Put yourself in the politcritter's shoes.  Take a good look around on conservative forums, or blogs, or whatever, and ask yourself if these are the voters you'd want to stake your career (and reputation, and family fortune) on as a politician.  The answer, if we're being honest, is probably a great big NO.

Indeed. Politicians are amoral creatures concerned only with gaining power and the fortunes and privilege it brings.
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roo_ster

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2014, 09:22:38 AM »
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/207443-is-it-ted-cruzs-texas-now

Quote
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) wasn’t up for reelection this year, but his presence was felt up and down the GOP primary ballot in the Lone Star State.

The only candidate Cruz endorsed won her primary fight on Tuesday, while incumbent candidates he ignored went down to defeat.

More generally, the upstart candidates who toppled Lieutenant Gov. David Dewhurst and 91-year-old Rep. Ralph Hall appealed to the same state conservatives who see Cruz as a hero.

“[Cruz] provided a playbook for conservative candidates to overcome the establishment,” said Texas-based GOP strategist Matt Mackowiak, who advised John Ratcliffe’s campaign, who beat Hall. “In every race, there was a Cruz dynamic.”

“He showed that if you raise enough money to be competitive, and if you run a good campaign and really mobilize the conservative base in Texas, that it can be done,” Mackowiak continued.

Yeah, that is about it.

Also helps if the IRS doesn't leak your tax records.

Quote
Longtime Texas GOP observers have noticed the sea change, too. They say the grassroots now controls the GOP.

“Things certainly have changed. The conservative grassroots activists have come to dominate the party establishment, offsetting or pushing aside some of the more traditional business/donor community,” said Texas Republican strategist Ray Sullivan, a former top aide to both Gov. Rick Perry and former President George W. Bush.

Sullivan said grassroots groups are much more organized and unified than in the past. They can also depend on help from national groups like the Senate Conservatives Fund and the Club for Growth.

“The conservative factions largely within Tea Party brands have become very well organized and have a significant amount of influence in Republican primary elections,” he added.

Still gotta do the work.

Quote
Sen. John Cornyn was another member of GOP leadership who initially seemed ripe for an upset. Instead, he never attracted a serious challenger.

Still, some say Cornyn has changed since Cruz arrived in Washington, which would be another testament to how he is changing his state’s political leadership.

Cornyn moved to polish his conservative credentials and became more intractable on areas he once reached across the aisle on, such as immigration, as his primary approached.
 

And here is the kicker: Even limited success and the threat of a TEA Party challenge puts some steel in the spine of the GOP invertebrates.



=============

The funny thing is, if the news media gave the news straight, Texas's views and politics would be the median for the USA(1).  As it is, Iowa's views & politics are smack dab in the middle.  What that means, of course, is that the more MSM influence erodes, the less they can skew the country leftwards. So there is some hope.



(1) Interesting study done to see how news media bias effects views.  Conclusion: MSM bias is effective.  Those who got politically neutral / objective news views' were significantly to the right of those who got undifferentiated MSM news content.

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roo_ster

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charby

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Re: TEA Party losses
« Reply #99 on: May 29, 2014, 09:30:01 AM »
=============

The funny thing is, if the news media gave the news straight, Texas's views and politics would be the median for the USA(1).  As it is, Iowa's views & politics are smack dab in the middle.  What that means, of course, is that the more MSM influence erodes, the less they can skew the country leftwards. So there is some hope.



(1) Interesting study done to see how news media bias effects views.  Conclusion: MSM bias is effective.  Those who got politically neutral / objective news views' were significantly to the right of those who got undifferentiated MSM news content.



Texas is only part of the country, don't forget about the New England Republicans.
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