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The Roundtable / Re: Heads Up: New residential HVAC refrigerant come Jan 01, 2025
« Last post by Brad Johnson on October 23, 2024, 12:25:55 PM »
As far as making the best decision as to wait versus do it now, there are other factors besides future labor costs. Thee's also the expectable decline in "real" costs of making the new equipment and refrigerant as demand and production increases,.This, as well as esrimating the value of what we call "money" in the future (that means infaltion, folks). and your own income possibiities --retiring soon?

Possily most important is the fact that it's easier to get it done now than some unforeseeable and awkward time in future.

Terry, 230RN

Biggest factor for me is the potential for expensive "repairs" (i.e. full system replacement) in the short term.

Both our compressors and one evaporator are 24 years old. The other evaporator is original to the house (1984, modified for 410A at some point). This means a high likelihood of major component failure in all units over the next five years. R-454B systems are incompatible with 410A system components, so any failure of any pressurized component will necessitate complete replacement of the system. Such replacement will be rushed, beholden to whatever equipment is available on short notice, and during a period where the systems are still relatively new and expensive. Those factors combined, it makes sense to go ahead and replace the units now while I can take advantage of existing equipment prices, sidestep future labor rate inflation, and with the luxury of sufficient time to consider options. It also gets me into equipment which is warranted for a minimum of ten years, can be serviced at the component level using much more common parts and methods, and is more efficient than our current systems.

I'm not a "wait until it breaks then fix it because" person, the kind who biases heavily to up-front expense and what-ifs away potential future financial detriments. Dad is like that and it cost us far more than it ever saved, plus usually resulting in significant and often costly inconvenience. I'm big on being proactive when it's advantageous. This is one of those times. I did the same with our water heater, a Rheem I picked up on a killer sale a couple years ago and tucked away in the garage. Our existing unit is 21 years old, double and then some the usual life span for water heaters in our area, so purchasing the unit while it was heavily discounted made sense. Glad I did, too, as the same unit today is most of twice what I paid. It will probably be installed soon.

Brad
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The Roundtable / Re: Heads Up: New residential HVAC refrigerant come Jan 01, 2025
« Last post by K Frame on October 23, 2024, 12:24:00 PM »
And how do we know you're not just an agent provocateur, flying your false flag to redirect blame away from the true party?

Hum?

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

I KNEW I didn't trust you, you and your sneaky skullduggery!
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Yes, I use primarily ground turkey. I've not bought actual ground beef (80/20 for burgers) for going on 2 years or longer. The last time I bought actual beef was a rib roast for our Christmas dinner last year.

That said, ground turkey is a lot more like ground beef in consistency, and an pretty far away from ground chicken. I don't use ground chicken, I don't like the consistency. It is way too mushy for me.

That said, the only advice I can give you is, because chicken is perhaps the blandest meat there is, you're really going to need to ramp up the spices and experiment, especially if you normally eat ground beef.

Mentally you're comparing what you're used to with ground beef against the chicken and no matter what you're going to be disappointed until you get used to it. So, again, ramp up the spices.
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The Mess Hall / How to cook ground chicken so it doesn't taste like disappointment?
« Last post by zxcvbob on October 23, 2024, 12:17:12 PM »
I bought a couple of pounds of close-dated fresh ground chicken recently.  I made taco meat with one, and it's edible but not great. (rather than the MSG in the taco packet enhancing the taste of the chicken, the chicken seems to have enhanced the MSG 🤣)  The other pound needs to be cooked soon or frozen or given to the dogs.  I'm not sure if it's all white meat or mixed white and dark; it's very light colored (of course) and 93% lean.

Something Asian-ish?  Especially SE Asian.  It also might be good made into patties (but what kind of sauce?) as long as you don't accidentally try to make a hamburger with it  :laugh:

I suspect it's a terrible substitute for ground beef and a poor sub for ground pork or even turkey, but probably good in its own right if I knew how to cook it.

I think Mike uses a lot of ground turkey...
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Politics / Re: The 2024 Circus
« Last post by RocketMan on October 23, 2024, 12:11:12 PM »
If he shoots a few more reporters, I may vote for him.

That's funny right there.   =D
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The Roundtable / Re: Heads Up: New residential HVAC refrigerant come Jan 01, 2025
« Last post by 230RN on October 23, 2024, 11:44:38 AM »
Nope, nope nope.

This is a cabal... a CONSPIRACY!!!! by all of the HVAC technicians in the United States designed to drain your bank account and enrich them!

Perfidy!

PPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

Acknowledged without comment.

The other money trails are also valid.  What's interesting is how my remarks ended up with others pointing out the deeper money trails.  The expression "follow the money" was apparently coined early on, but in my home town, one might  frequently ask about what another person does for a living with "What's your racket?"

Once again, not to disturb an ongoing relationship.

As far as making the best decision as to wait versus do it now, there are other factors besides the cited future labor costs. There's also the expectable decline in "real" costs of making the new equipment and refrigerant as demand and production increases. This, as well as estimating the value of what we call "money" in the future (that means inflation, folks) versus your own income possibilities --retiring soon?

Possibly the  most important is the fact that it's easier to get it done now than some unforeseeable and awkward time in future.

Incidentally, I agree with the "kicking the *expletive deleted*it out of" sentiment expressed above.

Terry, 230RN
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The Roundtable / Re: Heads Up: New residential HVAC refrigerant come Jan 01, 2025
« Last post by Bogie on October 23, 2024, 11:40:58 AM »
My residential central air system started making horrid noises, and had unreliable gas ignition... Probably just needed massive cleaning, but there was a connection charge whether I used any gas or not, and... my increased electric usage is close to what that would have cost, and isn't likely to blow me up. So I quit using it, and will eventually remove it. The AC (in hot and humid St. Louis) is a single LG window unit that is some sort of "dual inverter" thing... It was on all summer in the rear bedroom (shotgun house), kept the whole house livable, and my highest electric bill was $135ish... I figure cost/month in the heat was about $60ish... If the house was bigger, I'd buy a second one. Winter-wise, I have a couple of the oil-filled radiator space heaters - I set them to the lowest wattage, and just let them go after things get reliably under freezing. Cheap then... House generally stays around 55 (which I prefer), and when it gets REALLY cold, I add a third one - also set for just a few hundred watts. All on different circuits. One of them is on a dreaded extension cord. A 10 gauge extension cord... Planning purchase of a pellet stove in the spring after I can figure out how to plumb the chimney...
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Politics / Re: The 2024 Circus
« Last post by Perd Hapley on October 23, 2024, 11:40:34 AM »
Yeah, well, at least no humans were injured.

If he shoots a few more reporters, I may vote for him.
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The Roundtable / Re: Heads Up: New residential HVAC refrigerant come Jan 01, 2025
« Last post by Bogie on October 23, 2024, 11:31:38 AM »
1234yf is also... flammable.
40
Politics / Re: The 2024 Circus
« Last post by WLJ on October 23, 2024, 11:22:06 AM »
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