maricopa voters get the checkbook out again

[Ryan in Maine]

I see I see.

[BReilley]

pshaw  why go and bring facts into it
http://ndn.org/blog/2010/06/crime-down-border

""It's not spilling over to our side of the border," said William Lansdowne, police chief in San Diego, where violent crime has dropped 8% in the last three years. "We police it really well."

Which all goes to show that, as is so often the case with immigration and politics and crime, perception is a powerful thing."

ndn.org front page's title: NDN - A Progressive Think Tank and Advocacy Organization.
As to San Diego: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060913/news_7m13ncsafe.html

Seems like Lansdowne is correct, perception is indeed a powerful thing.  Can you find *any* objective report?

n Phoenix, police spokesman Trent Crump said, “Despite all the hype, in every single reportable crime category, we’re significantly down.” Mr. Crump said Phoenix’s most recent data for 2010 indicated still lower crime. For the first quarter of 2010, violent crime was down 17% overall in the city, while homicides were down 38% and robberies 27%, compared with the same period in 2009

So is M.C. crime down or not?

[seeker_two]

Thing is....a crime doesn't make the crime report unless it's listed as a crime and arrests and prosecutions are made...M.C. is making more arrests and prosecutions, so the crime stats are up....Phoenix is ignoring a lot of crimes (like illegal entry into the country), and their stats look better....kinda like the Black Panthers not having a record of voter intimidation because they were never convicted of it....

[longeyes]

Crime stats have long been politicized.  They get people hired, fired, promoted.  Increasingly they are detached from realities on the ground and the people who suffer at the hands of the dangerous.  Politics today is built on mendacity, and crime statistics are not exempt.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

Thing is....a crime doesn't make the crime report unless it's listed as a crime and arrests and prosecutions are made...M.C. is making more arrests and prosecutions, so the crime stats are up....Phoenix is ignoring a lot of crimes (like illegal entry into the country), and their stats look better....kinda like the Black Panthers not having a record of voter intimidation because they were never convicted of it....

how they hiding the bodies?  vis a vis the murder rate?  and that leaves that pesky recidivism rate that the "toughest sheriff in america" seems to be screwing the pooch on

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

ndn.org front page's title: NDN - A Progressive Think Tank and Advocacy Organization.
As to San Diego: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060913/news_7m13ncsafe.html

Seems like Lansdowne is correct, perception is indeed a powerful thing.  Can you find *any* objective report?

So is M.C. crime down or not?

are you attempting to refute either the police chiefs statement?  or the phoenix  reps statement?  i missed how unless the mayors political position has some bearing

[longeyes]

So you think the Powers That Be want the American people to see the magnitude of this problem, whether reflected in crime statistics or financial cost?  You can't be serious.  Illegal immigration's impact is an insidious as the money-printing tricks they use to disguise crime, waste, and exploitation in the financial arena.

[MillCreek]

Crime stats have long been politicized.  They get people hired, fired, promoted.  Increasingly they are detached from realities on the ground and the people who suffer at the hands of the dangerous.  Politics today is built on mendacity, and crime statistics are not exempt.

And I would say only that the statistics generated from some of the conservative sources are just as suspect as the statistics generated from some of the liberal sources. 

[BReilley]

are you attempting to refute either the police chiefs statement?  or the phoenix  reps statement?  i missed how unless the mayors political position has some bearing

I am discounting the validity of the San Diego Police Chief's statement.  A Chief of Police is a political appointee who serves at the pleasure of his Mayor.  His job is to be the police force's public figurehead and to direct department policy to suit the mayor/city council's direction.  I wouldn't expect to hear a spokesman for a self-proclaimed sanctuary city say "Yeah, crime has sure gone way up lately".  Would you?

I prefer to hear from elected officials, so I'll look for statements from sheriffs instead.  Here are a couple of articles regarding the San Diego Sheriff's Office:
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/article_7bbfd569-fdba-50c0-aed0-dc19f7871441.html
Real People, including the Sheriff(an elected official) seem less than happy about illegals' "contributions" to the community.  However, that article is from 2006 - maybe the voters didn't like hearing that, and elected this guy instead:
http://www.sdnn.com/sandiego/2010-07-15/local-county-news/sd-sheriff-gore-rails-against-arizona-immigration-law
Seems like a really reasonable, apolitical guy, committed to law enforcement. :rolleyes:
San Diego is clearly not a qualified example.

As for the Phoenix rep, he's kind of like the police chief... except for lower on the food chain.  Maybe he's looking at the NDN numbers, too.

And I would say only that the statistics generated from some of the conservative sources are just as suspect as the statistics generated from some of the liberal sources.

Nobody's denying that.  I asked for an objective source, not an equal-but-opposite source :I
I'm just tired of clicking C&SD's links, then going up a few levels to see "advocacy group", "immigration policy center", etc.  I don't think it's honest to present them as valid sources of objective statistics.

By the way, I meant to mention earlier but forgot: the Phoenix New Times has a MAJOR ax to grind against Arpaio.  There were some possibly politically-motivated arrests made on New Times staff(publishers, maybe?) - which again, I do not defend - but the New Times has declared itself an enemy of Sheriff Joe.  They will not be a reliable source of news relating to him or his causes.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

so the folks quoting the doj and fbi stats make the stats suspect?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

He said:

n Nearly 80 percent of gang-related crimes in North County involve illegal immigrants, either as suspects or victims.

n Day laborers and their migrant encampments are a burden on law enforcement. Residents call deputies about day laborers' aggressive work solicitation, drinking in public and using parking lots as restrooms.

n A recent operation in North County resulted in the towing of more than 100 vehicles due to traffic violations. The majority of the drivers were believed by deputies to be illegal immigrants.

n Protests supporting and opposing illegal immigration cost the Sheriff's Department $489,000 in 2005.

"The cost of staff hours, equipment and administrative work associated with the detention and/or arrest of undocumented, foreign-born citizens is difficult to approximate, but the figures are in the millions," Kolender said.

Horn told the congressional panel that the county Board of Supervisors commissioned a study to estimate the cost of illegal immigration on the county's coffers. His office later clarified that the board has not commissioned such a study but has authorized county staffers to investigate the cost of such an investigation.

"While current law and circumstance make it very difficult to accurately quantify the impact of the problem, it is immense," Horn said at the hearing


is pretty long on supposition and low on facts  and even they admit it

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

you didn't like the second link? gee why?  or you didn't approve of the will of the people that elected him?  is it just some elected folks you like?  the second article was real impressive vis a vis the 90 days from crime to capture and conviction on the one double murder.

also feel free to address the 25 year low in crime in san diego, or not. and try to square that with the number of immigrants both legal and illegal in that area

[BReilley]

you didn't like the second link? gee why?  or you didn't approve of the will of the people that elected him?  is it just some elected folks you like?  the second article was real impressive vis a vis the 90 days from crime to capture and conviction on the one double murder.

also feel free to address the 25 year low in crime in san diego, or not. and try to square that with the number of immigrants both legal and illegal in that area

Well, no, I don't like the second link, because I disagree with the Sheriff's position.  Don't really approve of the will of the electorate there, either(clearly you do not approve of the will of the people who keep voting for Arpaio), but whatever, it's their party - I'm just commenting from a state away, much like you're doing about Arizona.  I thoroughly believe that he is telling the truth as he sees it, though, and he will enforce the law as he wishes to - because he is beholden to the people who elected him, not a few higher-ups who tell him what to say.
 
Look, the people of San Diego County put that dude in office.  Sooner or later they'll get what they're asking for.

I'll comment on the crime rate there when I find real numbers.  That's not an invitation for an argument or links or anything, I just can't speak to that claim until I do some reading, which I'll do when I get home this afternoon.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

if you get real number please share  there is much chaff to wheat when one looks and much is contradictory

[Jamisjockey]

Okay,  we get it. Enough is enough.  If ya'll want to keep hitting each other with the stick, take it to PM.