Why does the AMA support socialized medicine?

[Fly320s]

From the website http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/17712.html.

The AMA says this:

Dramatic
improvement is possible by making better use of
existing government resources devoted to health care
and health care coverage, which include support for
private insurance, public programs such as Medicaid
and the State Childrens Health Insurance Program,
and payments toward unpaid hospital bills. These
resources should be drawn upon to, in essence, give
people money to pay for a health plan of their choosing,
with the amount of money they receive based on
their income.

The AMA proposal would expand health insurance
coverage and improve fairness by shifting government
spending toward those most likely to be uninsured
people with lower incomes.

Continued here: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/478/2008brochure.pdf

What benefit does the AMA and it's members receive from socialized medicine?  Is it all about money and increased business?

[Bogie]

power

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The AMA is a hive of socialists.

[Standing Wolf]

Free gummint money.

[Iain]

Something to do with black helicopters and UN invasions, JFK was an inside job.

[Paddy]

The AMA is a hive of socialists.

Really?  Then why have they donated significantly more to Republican candidates over the past 18 years?   Since 1990, 62% to Republicans, only 38% to Dems? 

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.asp?ID=D000000068

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The AMA is a hive of socialists.

Really?  Then why have they donated significantly more to Republican candidates over the past 18 years?   Since 1990, 62% to Republicans, only 38% to Dems? 

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.asp?ID=D000000068

Perhaps in an attempt to sway Republicans towards socialized medicine?

Maybe calling them socialists was premature.  I striongly suspect that they're socialists, but I don't know for sure, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  For now.

They are definitely nanny-statists, though.  Recall that the AMA thinks gun ownership is a public health issue.  They think doctors should quiz patients about their gun ownership during routine physicals.  The AMA wants doctors to counsel their patients not to own guns, and certainly not to store them loaded and accessible for self defense.

"We're doctors, we know better than you."

[De Selby]

It's more likely that they realize that medicare, and government programs, are much more financially stable and efficient from a doctor's point of view.

The health insurers add levels of bureacracy, micro-management, and second-guessing that have to be seen to be believed.  I'm not surprised that Doctors hate it.  They've got insurers breathing down their necks for every single medical decision, squeezing every last cent of premium out of them, and then forcing them to go through an enormous middle management bureacracy to finally get paid whatever it is the insurance company will grudgingly hand out.

[wooderson]

Maybe calling them socialists was premature.  I striongly suspect that they're socialists, but I don't know for sure, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  For now.

Never let facts get in the way of a good argument, eh?

[jefnvk]

That way they are guaranteed payment in a timely matter from everyone who gets attention?

[Paddy]

I don't see anything wrong with expanding Medicare into a single payer system of universal healthcare.  You still have private docs and private hospitals.  You just eliminate that 20-30% raked off the top as profit for insurance companies, thus getting more bang for the healthcare buck.

Po folk get medical treatment anyway; all they have to do is show up in the ER where treatment is way more expensive than the doctor's office.  Who do you think pays for that 'free' ER treatment?  We all do.  Better to deduct some healthcare premium dollars from the po workin' folks paycheck, dontcha think?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Maybe calling them socialists was premature.  I striongly suspect that they're socialists, but I don't know for sure, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  For now.

Never let facts get in the way of a good argument, eh?

Facts, eh?  The fact that they support socialized medicine, and the fact that they're demonstrated nanny-staters, makes for a pretty good argument that they are in fact socialists. 

More facts?  Milton Friedman and other free market advocates have criticized the AMA for being a doctors union, for preventing members from engaging in advertising and free competition with other doctors, for price collusion, for arbitrarily limiting the number of docotrs to drive prices up, and for fighting alternatives to traditional medicine such as chiropractic.

Sounds like they have some strong socialist leanings.  At the very least they have a strong hunger for power and control over other folks' lives.  Seems perfectly natural that they'd want socialized medicine.

[De Selby]

That way they are guaranteed payment in a timely matter from everyone who gets attention?

You got it.

[wooderson]

"Milton Friedman said they're a bunch of Stalinists who just happen to overwhelmingly donate to Republicans!"

Yeah, like I said - don't let facts get in the way.

[Firethorn]

I don't see anything wrong with expanding Medicare into a single payer system of universal healthcare.  You still have private docs and private hospitals.  You just eliminate that 20-30% raked off the top as profit for insurance companies, thus getting more bang for the healthcare buck.

I don't think you have that, and you'd still have the problems, if reduced, of medicare declaring the prices somewhat in isolation of actual costs.

Still plenty of opportunities for fraud, waste, and abuse though.

Personally, If I was a doc I'd be looking at the problems docs over in England are having, not at the rest of Europe.  We seem to fall into their models a lot.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

"Milton Friedman said they're a bunch of Stalinists who just happen to overwhelmingly donate to Republicans!"

Yeah, like I said - don't let facts get in the way.

"They donate to Republicans, so all of their leftist tendencies don't count." 

Who's ignoring the facts here?

[Sergeant Bob]

"Milton Friedman said they're a bunch of Stalinists who just happen to overwhelmingly donate to Republicans!"

Yeah, like I said - don't let facts get in the way.

"They donate to Republicans, so all of their leftist tendencies don't count." 

Who's ignoring the facts here?

Yep! It's a duck!

[Fly320s]

If those doctors know better than me, then why in the hell do they want to add a government bureacracy to their business?  I can't believe that involving the feds will streamline anything.

I don't see anything wrong with expanding Medicare into a single payer system of universal healthcare.  

I sure do.  Tell me why you think I should pay for your medical care.

[Paddy]

Tell me why you think I should pay for your medical care.

If I'm uninsured, you pay for my medical care now.  I can go to any emergency room and by law, I can't be refused treatment.  Of course, I never pay the bill, so it gets passed on to you in the form of higher taxes, medical costs and insurance premiums.  And, if I'm poor enough, my family might qualify for some healthcare welfare program.

If OTOH, everybody pays healthcare premiums through payroll tax deductions, to a single non-profit payer, like Medicare, nobody carries anyone else's burden. It's a win win.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If OTOH, everybody pays healthcare premiums through payroll tax deductions, to a single non-profit payer, like Medicare, nobody carries anyone else's burden. It's a win win.

You honestly believe this?  You truly think that if FedGov deducts money from your paycheck to fund some sort of single payer government health care system that you wouldn't be carrying anyone else' burden?

Are you daft?

[wooderson]

"They donate to Republicans, so all of their leftist tendencies don't count."

Leftist tendencies are not socialist tendencies. Hence two different words - you might have noticed?

Who's ignoring the facts here?

What facts? They're a bunch of Stalinists because they support nationalized healthcare... like Wal-Mart and a growing number of large businesses.

Right. Uh-huh.

[Paddy]

If OTOH, everybody pays healthcare premiums through payroll tax deductions, to a single non-profit payer, like Medicare, nobody carries anyone else's burden. It's a win win.

You honestly believe this?  You truly think that if FedGov deducts money from your paycheck to fund some sort of single payer government health care system that you wouldn't be carrying anyone else' burden?

Are you daft?

If you're paying insurance premiums now, in excess of your claims, you're ALREADY carrying someone else's burden. PLUS you're lining the pockets of others with the excess portion of your premium that is profit.

[Fly320s]

True.  Same thing with auto insurance and life insurance.  But the difference is that I am paying for someone who already has a medical insurance policy, not someone who does not pay anything into his policy.  That is a huge difference.

As for profits, I have no trouble with that.  Neither do you, in spite of what you post here.  You do have more income than expenses, right?  That's a profit.

[Paddy]

But the difference is that I am paying for someone who already has a medical insurance policy, not someone who does not pay anything into his policy.  That is a huge difference.

I guess you're missing that everybody pays through payroll deductions.  Everybody has a 'policy'. 

[Bogie]

Guys, you also need to be aware that doctors are highly specialized, and are not necessarily intelligent beings... In fact, they tend to be viewed as easy targets for a LOT of scams/cons... I know one who actually sent money to a "Russian girl who just needed plane fare so that she could be with him."

And that was a small one... Some of the investment scams that they get snagged in are unreal... They put in a lot of hours on their "business," and they don't pay a lot of attention to their investment stuff... And when they get a stroker coming in, telling them how smart they are, they tend to go with the flow...