Author Topic: Fountain Pens  (Read 4950 times)

BridgeRunner

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Fountain Pens
« on: August 13, 2008, 05:41:06 PM »
In an attempt to avoid excessive thread drift:

Out of curiosity, do you find there is a noticeable difference when using a fine writing instrument vs. a disposable or an inexpensive Cross pen?  I know a guy who loves pens and owns some incredibly expensive ones.  I just have yet to get interested enough to dive in.

I wouldn't know.  I don't use a fine writing instruments.  I use a pretty decent pen.  But, yes, I do.

I first got into fountain pens as a kid because I didn't like the poor quality line of a ballpen.  I didn't have access to decent ones and so I abandoned it for a while.  But then I hurt my shoulder and it start deteriorating pretty badly.  Writing was very painful.  I turned back to fountain pens because they require absolutely no downward pressure.  I don't mean only a little pressure, as with most rollerballs, I mean none.  First is was a throwaway, a Varsity, those disposable, non-fillable pens with fountain pen nibs and feeds.  It fixed the ergonomic problem, but the line was not very subtle.  It was prone to leaking.  It was too light--like virtually all throwaway pens.  It was ugly.  I got a fairly cheap fountain pen from Levenger--$60 or so.  It was poorly weighted.  Writing with the cap posted was impossible.  It was a fine nib, and it clogged easily.  Poorly made nib.  The section (the area the write grips) was coated with an enamel that was not pleasing to the touch.  However, it took cartridges or a converter to allow bottle filling, and it worked for a time.

At least it produced a more attractive line than a Bic, gave me more ink choices, was a little heavier, was more attractive. 

When I started law school I got a Cross ATX.  Still a converter filler, which meant relatively small ink capacity.  But, much better nib.  More carefully made, less clogging.  Well, no clogging.  Much more pleasant to grip section--made of brushed metal, with an enameled body.  The line wasn't fine enough for me, though, and I found the ink capacity deficient.  I tried a low-end Shaeffer too, decent in most respects, but a more crude nib, too broad and imprecise for my tastes, and a cheap plastic section.

My current pen is a Pelikan m215, the black one with the diamon pattern.  http://www.fahrneyspens.com/Item--i-36364S.  It's a very entry level decent pen.  Still a steel nib, but that works well for me.  Metal body, higher quality plastics for the other parts, so less sticky/slick feeling section.  It's a true bottle-filling pens, so no messing around with converters.  Since I can't afford to buy the pens I'd like, I've gotten into inks quite a bit.  My favorite label over all is Diamine, although there are a half dozen I really enjoy, and many have really wonderful, subtle qualities of color, texture, interaction with the paper in various ways.  More of a challenge for me because I am a lefty and I prefer Clairefontaine paper, which is coated and very smooth, so I need a quick-drying ink, but I also demand a very line with no feathering, and so some inks marketed as quick-drying don't work for me at all. 

It's just no fun playing with inks with a converter pen.  The Pelikan makes it all a lot more fun.  It feels perfect. 

A few criticisms:  The classic Pelikan clip is prone to catching on things and getting bent if one is fairly active.  I was always tossing it in my back pocket, and it caught on my seat belt several times.  After the third time I disassembled the whole thign to fix the clip, I just ditched it.  Works fine without.  Some days it feels a little too small.  I really have my eye on one of the LEs: http://www.fahrneyspens.com/Item--i-363129S.  It's a little bigger, and I like the clip design better.  Way, way out of my budget though.  Right now, I'm just hoping to be able to buy a term's worth of paper in the next couple of weeks. 

I also have a couple of vintage Esterbrooks, with very fine, very stiff steel nibs.  My writing, when I pay attention, is much more beautiful and much more legible that it could be with a Bic or similar.  My hand doesn't get cramped.  It's easier on my healing shoulder.  It's more enjoyable.  I prefer that things that I do every day be delightful.  If I can spent $100 (or, maybe, in a few years $300-500) for a pen and $200-500 on paper and ink over the course of couple of years for an instrument I will hold and use constantly, I'll go with that.  Writing is a pleasure with a decent pen. My husband used to think I was nuts, until I took him to a pen store and got him to try out some decent pens.  (I won't let him use mine because a nib because worn to fit the owner's hand, and mine more pronouncedly because of my left-handed, so it wouldn't work well for him and could damage my nib if he wrote extensively.) Now he wants a pen too, and I'll probably pick one up for him at the local pen show in September.

Those $30 Crosses are a travesty of a pen.  Those slick, shiny, slim bodies are designed not for people who want a nice pen but for people who don't know anything but a Bic.  They are poorly balanced, they are kind of on the heavy side--not generally a good quality in a very slim pen, contributes to hand fatigue.  They are just a way for folks to get a decent-looking pen without investing much time or effort. 

[And this, my friends, is why I have an Apple:  Pens, paper, ink, and talking about them are all in the list of the 200+ things I'd rather do than build and customize a computer.  grin]

K Frame

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2008, 05:45:57 PM »
I've used fountain pens on and off for many many years.

In college almost all of my notes were taken with fountain pen.

I used to seek out Sheaffer Snorkels, because I found that they allowed me to write for long periods of time without hand fatigue.

The only ballpoint that was even remotely suitable were the Pilots. Very smooth writing.
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zahc

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2008, 06:16:44 PM »
My friend has a schaffer desk pen. I don't like it because it writes too thick. I have a couple of the Platinum Preppy pens. They aren't too bad if you buy a few and sort out the good ones, write with them a lot to get them broken in, and do NOT use the stock ink. I use waterman ink (injected into the factory cartridges via syringe). Much better. If I'm not using pencil, I pretty much use these. I don't like ballpoint pens anymore.
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K Frame

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2008, 06:24:54 PM »
I have very tight handwriting, so I need fine nibbs/points/tips on any pen that I use.

Sometimes I would luck out and find extra fine nibs, what were known as bookkeeper's nibs.
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Standing Wolf

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2008, 06:29:11 PM »
I've had good success with the folks at Fahrney's.
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2008, 06:30:21 PM »
Pick up a restored Esterbrook with a #1550 nib.  Spidery-writing heaven.  Gotta pick your ink and paper carefully though, or it'll be illegible.  Should be able to find it for under $40.

BridgeRunner

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2008, 06:34:04 PM »
I've had good success with the folks at Fahrney's.

I actually make most of my actual purchases from Pendemonium. Their website is kinda' really amatuerish, but they have a nice mailing list, really nice, old-fashioned service, and they let me pay by check, which ordinarily would not be an issue, but for a pen/ink/paper purchase, I rather like sitting down and writing out a check and using a nice envelope to mail it in.  Very civilized transactions over at Pendemonium.

wmenorr67

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2008, 08:23:27 PM »
Quote
In an attempt to avoid excessive thread drift:

Wow someone forgot the rule number 65982: The more thread drift the better. grin

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Regolith

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2008, 09:54:40 PM »
$60 for a pen....and that's entry level?   shocked


I think I'll stick with my $1.25 Bics....
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wmenorr67

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2008, 10:06:30 PM »
$60 for a pen....and that's entry level?   shocked


I think I'll stick with my $1.25 Bics....

You are still spending too much.  I go and borrow these ones at work that say Skilcraft.  Any government or military person knows of what I speak.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Regolith

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2008, 10:11:29 PM »
$60 for a pen....and that's entry level?   shocked


I think I'll stick with my $1.25 Bics....

You are still spending too much.  I go and borrow these ones at work that say Skilcraft.  Any government or military person knows of what I speak.

Heh.  I remember those Skillcraft pens.  My father works for the BLM, and every once in a while he'd leave one of those pens at home.   

Don't have the option of snagging one of those anymore, though, since I left home.  That, and I think he's stopped using them, and went with a more expensive ballpoint.  I don't think he liked the way they wrote.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

wmenorr67

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2008, 10:13:31 PM »
Well you do get what you pay for. laugh
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Regolith

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2008, 10:20:01 PM »
Well you do get what you pay for. laugh

True, which is I guess the hole point of this thread.  Cheesy


Still, $60 is way too expensive for my blood.  Only thing I use a pen for these days is writing checks and filling out forms, and SOMETIMES taking notes (I prefer taking notes with a mechanical pencil, but sometimes I'll forget to bring one and have to use the pen).  All of my serious writing is done on the computer; hell, if I had a laptop, I'd probably use THAT to take notes.

That, and I lose writing implements like the Mariners lose ball games.  I either misplace them or let someone borrow them and forget to get it back.  I buy those cheap Bic mechanical pencils by the dozen because of this.  If I were to buy a $60 or a $100 fountain pen, I'd probably lose it within the month.  cheesy
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. - Thomas Jefferson

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt the Younger

Perfectly symmetrical violence never solved anything. - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

wmenorr67

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2008, 10:22:39 PM »
Well you do get what you pay for. laugh

True, which is I guess the hole point of this thread.  Cheesy


Still, $60 is way too expensive for my blood.  Only thing I use a pen for these days is writing checks and filling out forms, and SOMETIMES taking notes (I prefer taking notes with a mechanical pencil, but sometimes I'll forget to bring one and have to use the pen).  All of my serious writing is done on the computer; hell, if I had a laptop, I'd probably use THAT to take notes.

That, and I lose writing implements like the Mariners lose ball games.  I either misplace them or let someone borrow them and forget to get it back.  I buy those cheap Bic mechanical pencils by the dozen because of this.  If I were to buy a $60 or a $100 fountain pen, I'd probably lose it within the month.  cheesy

Kind of like sunglasses.  The more you spend the quicker they are broken or lost. laugh
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Waitone

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2008, 02:56:34 AM »
At one time I was into fountain pens.  I decided to spend my money on guns so I quit.  IIRC the Japanese make some bang-up fountain pens at a "reasonable" price.
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The Annoyed Man

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2008, 04:36:35 AM »
At one time I was into fountain pens.  I decided to spend my money on guns so I quit.  IIRC the Japanese make some bang-up fountain pens at a "reasonable" price.

That says it all.  It's all about what you are into.  I have a couple of nicer (Cross level) pens I carry when I wear a suit, etc.  But as much as I write on a daily basis, I use the cheap pens (Pilot and Bic) the court has available.  My judge, however, is a pen nut (like I'm a gun and watch nut) and he uses high end fountain pens for everything.  Buys everything on his own, not out of Court funds.

It's all what you like...

roo_ster

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2008, 06:08:18 AM »
Writing for me is a utilitarian task and I want a tool that does the job with little fuss.

I did the fountain pen thing for a bit in college.  Worked pretty well if you bought a quality tool.

Fountain pens were not practical in the service and really are not at my present occupation.  My usual carry location is my front left pocket.

I do take a lot of notes and have some definite preferences:
1. Retractable
2. Sturdy Clip
3. Smooth writing
4. Leak-free
5. Fine point
6. Black ink

And some things that I do not like:
1. Pen caps
2. Rubbery-gripper surfaces integrated into the pen (grab on to pocket material)
3. Leaks
4. Large & heavy
5. High center of gravity

My favorite for many years has been the original Pilot Retractable, fine point, black ink:


Getting harder to find, these days.

If I am doing a LOT of writing, I will add a triangular pen grip:
http://www.amazon.com/Maxi-Aids-Triangular-Pen-Pencil-Grips/dp/B00011R44S


I also have definite preferences when it comes to writing pads...
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roo_ster

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MillCreek

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2008, 06:44:46 AM »
I have to admit that I cheap out as well.  Periodically, I go to Staples and buy a box of Bic round stic grip in fine red ink and a box of Pilot G2 red fine tip gel pens.  After years of having people 'borrow' writing instruments from me and forget to return them, I decided to go with a cheap solution that I still liked.

A few decades ago, I used to do calligraphy and had some nice pen and nib sets for that.
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Tallpine

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2008, 07:06:48 AM »
I can hardly read my own writing.  It doesn't matter what pen I use. Sad
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2008, 07:09:05 AM »
I've used fountain pens before.  They're very nice, but not terribly convenient.  I find that gel pens and roller balls are almost as nice to write with, while being far, far more convenient.

zahc

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2008, 07:38:21 AM »
I would like to take this opportunity to praise the original Bic Clickster mechanical pencils, which though now impossible to find, were easily the height of mechanical pencil technology. I mourn their passing.  Papermate makes a similar, cheaper Clickster variant now, but it doesn't have a rubber grip and the pocket clips break off super easy.
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41magsnub

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2008, 07:43:11 AM »
I can hardly read my own writing.  It doesn't matter what pen I use. Sad

I'm that way now as well, too dependent on the computer.  However, I am using a tablet now and am having to practice decent handwriting again.

coppertales

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2008, 10:37:17 AM »
I grew up with fountain pens.  Having used many different brands, I like BIC Velocity Gel the best.  As posted above, I have a Cross set for dress up.  However that is a real rare experience now a days............chris3

BridgeRunner

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2008, 10:52:09 AM »
$60 for a pen....and that's entry level?   shocked

Nah, I don't think so.  My $60 fountain pen was a cheapo mistake.  Entry level for a decent pen is, imho, closer to $90 or so.  But, then, I haven't tried a Sailor (probably the nice but inexpensive Japanese pens Waitone mentioned).

Tallpine

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Re: Fountain Pens
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2008, 03:26:00 PM »
I can hardly read my own writing.  It doesn't matter what pen I use. Sad

I'm that way now as well, too dependent on the computer.  However, I am using a tablet now and am having to practice decent handwriting again.

What ruined me was taking notes in college.  If I slow down it looks okay, but after two or three words I alwaysstartwritingasfastaspossible  sad
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin