Author Topic: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans  (Read 15879 times)

roo_ster

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In Russia this universe, the laws of physics break you!

Note to self: never drive or ride in the Smartfortwo.



http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/14/iihs-finds-sub-compacts-fair-poorly-again/


New crash tests demonstrate the influence of vehicle size and weight on safety in crashes; results are relevant to fuel economy policies

ARLINGTON, VA - Three front-to-front crash tests, each involving a microcar or minicar into a midsize model from the same manufacturer, show how extra vehicle size and weight enhance occupant protection in collisions. These Insurance Institute for Highway Safety tests are about the physics of car crashes, which dictate that very small cars generally can't protect people in crashes as well as bigger, heavier models.

"There are good reasons people buy minicars," says Institute president Adrian Lund. "They're more affordable, and they use less gas. But the safety trade-offs are clear from our new tests. Equally clear are the implications when it comes to fuel economy. If automakers downsize cars so their fleets use less fuel, occupant safety will be compromised. However, there are ways to serve fuel economy and safety at the same time."

The Institute didn't choose SUVs or pickup trucks, or even large cars, to pair with the micro and minis in the new crash tests. The choice of midsize cars reveals how much influence some extra size and weight can have on crash outcomes. The Institute chose pairs of 2009 models from Daimler, Honda, and Toyota because these automakers have micro and mini models that earn good frontal crashworthiness ratings, based on the Institute's offset test into a deformable barrier. Researchers rated performance in the 40 mph car-to-car tests, like the front-into-barrier tests, based on measured intrusion into the occupant compartment, forces recorded on the driver dummy, and movement of the dummy during the impact.

Laws of physics prevail: The Honda Fit, Smart Fortwo, and Toyota Yaris are good performers in the Institute's frontal offset barrier test, but all three are poor performers in the frontal collisions with midsize cars. These results reflect the laws of the physical universe, specifically principles related to force and distance.

Although the physics of frontal car crashes usually are described in terms of what happens to the vehicles, injuries depend on the forces that act on the occupants, and these forces are affected by two key physical factors. One is the weight of a crashing vehicle, which determines how much its velocity will change during impact. The greater the change, the greater the forces on the people inside and the higher the injury risk. The second factor is vehicle size, specifically the distance from the front of a vehicle to its occupant compartment. The longer this is, the lower the forces on the occupants.

Size and weight affect injury likelihood in all kinds of crashes. In a collision involving two vehicles that differ in size and weight, the people in the smaller, lighter vehicle will be at a disadvantage. The bigger, heavier vehicle will push the smaller, lighter one backward during the impact. This means there will be less force on the occupants of the heavier vehicle and more on the people in the lighter vehicle. Greater force means greater risk, so the likelihood of injury goes up in the smaller, lighter vehicle.

Crash statistics confirm this. The death rate in 1-3-year-old minicars in multiple-vehicle crashes during 2007 was almost twice as high as the rate in very large cars.

"Though much safer than they were a few years ago, minicars as a group do a comparatively poor job of protecting people in crashes, simply because they're smaller and lighter," Lund says. "In collisions with bigger vehicles, the forces acting on the smaller ones are higher, and there's less distance from the front of a small car to the occupant compartment to 'ride down' the impact. These and other factors increase injury likelihood."

The death rate per million 1-3-year-old minis in single-vehicle crashes during 2007 was 35 compared with 11 per million for very large cars. Even in midsize cars, the death rate in single-vehicle crashes was 17 percent lower than in minicars. The lower death rate is because many objects that vehicles hit aren't solid, and vehicles that are big and heavy have a better chance of moving or deforming the objects they strike. This dissipates some of the energy of the impact.

Some proponents of mini and small cars claim they're as safe as bigger, heavier cars.

But the claims don't hold up. For example, there's a claim that the addition of safety features to the smallest cars in recent years reduces injury risk, and this is true as far as it goes. Airbags, advanced belts, electronic stability control, and other features are helping. They've been added to cars of all sizes, though, so the smallest cars still don't match the bigger cars in terms of occupant protection.

Would hazards be reduced if all passenger vehicles were as small as the smallest ones? This would help in vehicle-to-vehicle crashes, but occupants of smaller cars are at increased risk in all kinds of crashes, not just ones with heavier vehicles. Almost half of all crash deaths in minicars occur in single-vehicle crashes, and these deaths wouldn't be reduced if all cars became smaller and lighter. In fact, the result would be to afford less occupant protection fleetwide in single-vehicle crashes.

Yet another claim is that minicars are easier to maneuver, so their drivers can avoid crashes in the first place. Insurance claims experience says otherwise. The frequency of claims filed for crash damage is higher for mini 4-door cars than for midsize ones.

Here's how the pairs of cars fared in the Institute's new crash tests:

Honda Accord versus Fit: The structure of the Accord held up well in the crash test into the Fit, and all except one measure of injury likelihood recorded on the driver dummy's head, neck, chest, and both legs were good. In contrast, a number of injury measures on the dummy in the Fit were less than good. Forces on the left lower leg and right upper leg were in the marginal range, while the measure on the right tibia was poor. These indicate a high risk of leg injury in a real-world crash of similar severity. In addition, the dummy's head struck the steering wheel through the airbag. Intrusion into the Fit's occupant compartment was extensive. Overall, this minicar's rating is poor in the front-to-front crash, despite its good crashworthiness rating based on the Institute's frontal offset test into a deformable barrier. The Accord earns good ratings for performance in both tests.

Mercedes C class versus Smart Fortwo: After striking the front of the C class, the Smart went airborne and turned around 450 degrees. This contributed to excessive movement of the dummy during rebound - a dramatic indication of the Smart's poor performance but not the only one. There was extensive intrusion into the space around the dummy from head to feet. The instrument panel moved up and toward the dummy. The steering wheel was displaced upward. Multiple measures of injury likelihood, including those on the dummy's head, were poor, as were measures on both legs.

"The Smart is the smallest car we tested, so it's not surprising that its performance looked worse than the Fit's. Still both fall into the poor category, and it's hard to distinguish between poor and poorer," Lund says. "In both the Smart and Fit, occupants would be subject to high injury risk in crashes with heavier cars." In contrast, the C class held up well, with little to no intrusion into the occupant compartment. Nearly all measures of injury likelihood were in the good range.

Toyota Camry versus Yaris: There was far more intrusion into the occupant compartment of the Yaris than the Camry. The minicar's door was largely torn away. The driver seats in both cars tipped forward, but only in the Yaris did the steering wheel move excessively. Similar contrasts characterize the measures of injury likelihood recorded on the dummies. The heads of both struck the cars' steering wheels through the airbags, but only the head injury measure on the dummy in the Yaris rated poor. There was extensive force on the neck and right leg plus a deep gash at the right knee of the dummy in the minicar. Like the Smart and Fit, the Yaris earns an overall rating of poor in the car-to-car test. The Camry is acceptable.

Fuel economy implications: One reason people buy smaller cars is to conserve fuel. Gasoline prices skyrocketed last year, and there's no telling what the price at the pump might be next week. Meanwhile, the gears are turning to hike federal fuel economy requirements to address environmental concerns. The conflict is that smaller vehicles use less fuel but do a relatively poor job of protecting people in crashes, so fuel conservation policies have tended to conflict with motor vehicle safety policies.

A problem with the current structure of fuel economy standards for cars is that the target of 27.5 miles per gallon is applied to an automaker's whole fleet, no matter the mix of cars an individual automaker sells. This encourages manufacturers to sell more smaller, lighter cars to offset the fuel consumed by their bigger, heavier models. Sometimes automakers even sell the smaller - and less safe - cars at a loss to ensure compliance with fleetwide requirements.

In response, the Obama administration announced it is boosting the fuel economy standard for cars, beginning with 2011 models, and instituting a size-based system to set fuel economy targets like the one already in effect for SUVs, pickups, and vans. This system will mandate lower fuel consumption as cars get smaller and lighter, thus removing the incentive for automakers to downsize their lightest vehicles to comply. It also could mean that technology currently used to enhance horsepower would go instead to reduce gas consumption - a direct safety benefit because less powerful cars have lower crash rates.

Another way to conserve fuel, and serve safety at the same time, is to set lower speed limits. Going slower uses less fuel to cover the same distance. The national maximum 55 mph speed limit, enacted in 1974, saved thousands of barrels of fuel per day. It also saved thousands of lives. Highway deaths declined about 20 percent the first year, from 55,511 in 1973 to 46,402 in 1974. The National Research Council estimated that most of the reduction was due to the lower speed limit, and the rest was because of reduced travel. By 1983 the national maximum 55 mph limit still was saving 2,000 to 4,000 lives annually.

"Fifty-five was adopted to save fuel, but it turned out to be one of the most dramatic safety successes in motor vehicle history," Lund concludes. "The political will to reinstate it probably is lacking, but if policymakers want a win-win approach, lowering the speed limit is it. It saves fuel and lives at the same time."
Regards,

roo_ster

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Gewehr98

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2009, 02:27:40 PM »
Yup. It's a risk you take.

Ask all of us motorcycle riders. 

The cagers have physics on their side.  ;)
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2009, 02:31:02 PM »
I Googled Smart Car Wreck to see if I could find a pic for this thread.  After seeing the pics I think I won't and save you guys the queasiness.

Brad
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zahc

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2009, 03:06:49 PM »
Why do we have federal fuel economy standards?
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MechAg94

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2009, 03:09:01 PM »
Yup. It's a risk you take.

Ask all of us motorcycle riders. 

The cagers have physics on their side.  ;)
Which is better?

1.  Being strapped in side a small lightweight vehicle in a crash?
or
2.  Riding on top of a small lightweight vehicle in a crash? 

In some cases, I think neither is better.
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HankB

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2009, 03:20:53 PM »
This morning on the news they showed video of the SmartForTwo DumbForAll car in the IIHS collision testing - when I saw it collide with a mid-size sedan and go AIRBORNE, spinning away like Mike Tyson's ex-girlfriend after an uppercut, I just thought to myself "That's what happens when you put what amounts to an ENCLOSED GOLF CART on the road with real vehicles!"

An auto industry spokesman said the tests were "unrealistic" because small cars like this aren't meant to be on high-speed roads, just on neighborhood streets where the speeds are much slower.

IIHS ran their tests at, I believe, 40 MPH.

Funny thing - they just had an article in the local paper about a bank owner who's running a profitable bank today; he drives an Excursion, and bought himself a second one as a spare when he heard Ford was discontinuing it. Seems he was in a crash some years back and got banged up pretty bad, so now he's applying the principles of physics that he learned the hard way and is driving a big vehicle.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2009, 03:24:42 PM »
Quote
"Fifty-five was adopted to save fuel, but it turned out to be one of the most dramatic safety successes in motor vehicle history," Lund concludes. "The political will to reinstate it probably is lacking, but if policymakers want a win-win approach, lowering the speed limit is it. It saves fuel and lives at the same time."

What raw horse-pucky.

Modern vehicle fleets are optimized for about 65mph.  My truck gets worse fuel economy at 55 than it does at 70... its ideal cruise speed.  I get another 0.5mpg at a minimum there.

I even thought it just had to do with the overdrive gear kicking in...nope.  That happens at 60.  Fuel economy is a bit better at 60, but all my experimentation with my vehicle shows 70 to be the ideal cruise speed.  Dodge Ram 1500, 4.7L V8 with automatic transmission and onboard computer performing calculations.

It squishes bugs, too.  And smaller SUV's.  I had a guy rear-end me about a month ago.  Torqued my bumper, fudged up his front end royally.  He was in a Chrysler light SUV.  Pacifica, I think.  I can't remember the model name.

I think I'll stay on the heavy side of the equation.  And tall.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2009, 03:25:03 PM »
Regarding motorcycles vs. microcars - neither is better, but it appears one is ok, the other isn't.  ;/
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2009, 03:27:22 PM »
Quote
An auto industry spokesman said the tests were "unrealistic" because small cars like this aren't meant to be on high-speed roads, just on neighborhood streets where the speeds are much slower.

Haha!  I see so many of these ecotrendy weenie cars in Scottsdale, here.  They're wider than they are long.  They jump on the highway and cruise along at 70, oblivious to physics and happy to save $0.84 on their gas trip for the day.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2009, 03:29:57 PM »
Hey now, let's be civil here.

Spousal unit and I are considering getting one.

I'd drive one long before I bought a Pious.

If the walls and H3 drivers don't jump out at me any more than when I'm riding my Harley, I'm cool with it.
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Balog

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2009, 03:33:12 PM »
A lot less ability to avoid things than on a bike, I hear.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2009, 03:40:30 PM »
Yeah, but the little doobers are surprisingly nimble.

At least the ForTwo we test-drove in Milwaukee was.

I looked at it like a motorcycle with fewer bugs in your teeth, a better heater, a nice stereo, and my wife wouldn't get uppity about being called the "B**ch in the Back". 

It would fit in my garage next to the Harley with plenty of room to spare.   =D

"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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Balog

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2009, 03:43:00 PM »
Yeah, but the little doobers are surprisingly nimble.

At least the ForTwo we test-drove in Milwaukee was.

I looked at it like a motorcycle with fewer bugs in your teeth, a better heater, a nice stereo, and my wife wouldn't get uppity about being called the "B**ch in the Back". 
It would fit in my garage next to the Harley with plenty of room to spare.   =D



Somehow I think she still might object to being called that....  =D
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Gewehr98

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2009, 03:46:46 PM »
She's a Marine brat, and a former Marine herself.

She'll get over it, probably with some salty response in kind.   =D

She drives 1.5 miles to work, and doesn't want to ride the big or small Harleys in bad weather.

I don't blame her, and we both like the idea of the Daimler SmartCar for just buzzing around on short trips. 

Quote
Why do we have federal fuel economy standards?

It's an attempt to wean ourselves off of oil imported from Jihadistan. 

Problem is, when gas is at or below $2.00/gallon, nobody wants to think about it.

"With cake in vulgar surplus, we can have it, and eat it, too..."
"Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round...

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mtnbkr

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2009, 04:15:02 PM »
She drives 1.5 miles to work, and doesn't want to ride the big or small Harleys in bad weather.

If I lived that close to work, I'd walk or bike.  Except for the hottest part of summer, I could bike that distance and not break a sweat.

Quote
Problem is, when gas is at or below $2.00/gallon, nobody wants to think about it.

I did.  Made me feel like a chump for driving gas sippers (for the most part) all through HS and college when gas was less than a buck a gallon.  I liked my Bug, but a big V8 would have been nice too.

Chris

Iain

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2009, 04:20:50 PM »
Petrol prices being what they have been, and what they will be again, I can't say I'm convinced that the solution to this problem is some sort of arms race. You buy a sedan, I buy an SUV, you buy a Hummer, I buy a Winnebago...
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K Frame

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2009, 04:27:19 PM »
I had a big V8 in a little car, Ford Maverick, in high school.

I was traumatized when regular unleaded crested $1 a gallon. :D


I'm seeing more of those assinine "smart cars" on the road in my neck of the woods lately, too. All I can think of when I see one is "pre crushed." :)

What I don't understand, though, is why someone would buy one of those things for the money they want for them when the miles per gallon they get isn't any better than a lot of cars like the Toyota Carolla, and a lot worse than many others?
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mtnbkr

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2009, 04:31:11 PM »
What I don't understand, though, is why someone would buy one of those things for the money they want for them when the miles per gallon they get isn't any better than a lot of cars like the Toyota Carolla, and a lot worse than many others?

No clue.  You can get a 2-3yo Corolla with low miles for the same price or less than a new Smartcar and be able to carry multiple adults and their luggage.  Gas mileage will be worse, but not by a huge amount.

BTW, have you noticed the current Corolla is as large as the early 80s vintage Camry?

Chris

Iain

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2009, 04:34:29 PM »
Yep, cars are getting bigger.

In the early 90's I considered the Ford Granada to be an absolute monster, and it was. The present Ford Mondeo is pretty much the same size.
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mtnbkr

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2009, 04:36:38 PM »
Dunno if your Granada is the same as ours, but the 80s Granada (I think they stopped in the 80s) was a big, but not monstrous, car.  My grandparents had one.

Cars are getting bigger, but they're still getting better and better economy.  My 03 Camry gets better and more consistent mileage than my 72 Beetle while having more power, more comfort, and lower maintenance requirements.  Amazing what 30 years will do...

Chris

Brad Johnson

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2009, 04:41:09 PM »
Dunno if your Granada is the same as ours, but the 80s Granada (I think they stopped in the 80s) was a big, but not monstrous, car.  My grandparents had one.

Grenada and Mustang were both made on the Fox chassis.  Many of the suspension and driveline parts will interchange, including the aftermarket Mustang 460 swap kits. *evil laugh*

Brad
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Iain

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2009, 04:44:18 PM »
Granada probably was the same. Historically our cars have not been as big as yours, so the Granada was a big car at the time by the British standards of the day. The size of the present Mondeo did attract some comment, but when I compare my 97 Nissan to the modern versions of the cars it was a rival to, it also looks a lot smaller.

Engines are of course a lot better than they were, and with 2 litre diesels in Mazda 6 size cars getting 45+mpg then if I were to be buying a new car I'd be hard pushed to look past them. The little 1.4 diesels get significantly better mpg, but they do need to be in a Yaris-sized package.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2009, 06:50:30 PM »
Why do we have federal fuel economy standards?
Because enough people think that shooting oneself in the foot is a good idea.

roo_ster

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2009, 07:10:31 PM »
Why do we have federal fuel economy standards?

Because the busybody social engineers think they know better than you what is best for you.
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roo_ster

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Re: Dept of the Obvious: Sub-compacts fare poorly against mid-size sedans
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2009, 08:22:17 PM »
I'm sorry to hear about the Fit--I was looking at that for my next car.

Quote
What I don't understand, though, is why someone would buy one of those things (Smart Car) for the money they want for them when the miles per gallon they get isn't any better than a lot of cars like the Toyota Carolla, and a lot worse than many others?

1.  Their mpg is less than a Civic's
2.  They cost more than a Civic
3.  There is an 18 month waiting period
4.  The engine is carbeurated!  For all that money you'd expect to get the latest engine technology.

If you lived in SF or NYC or some other urban area where parking is impossible, it would make sense.  Otherwise, it fulfills the goal of appearing to be more green than you are.  Might as well get a Mini.
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