I just changed my oil and used a FRAM filter...

[digitalandanalog]

The oil thread got me to really wondering if I am doing a great disservice to my engine by using a FRAM Tough Guard filter. I used to pay to have my oil changed until the cost couldn't be justified. It was time to go back to doing it myself.

I bought a FRAM filter last time and this time. The exception to this time was that I found a filter size that was identical except that this other one is about 50% longer. My logic concluded that more filter surface area is better.

Do I need to get rid of that FRAM ASAP? If yes, who makes good filters that won't make me decide that it is worthwhile to overpay the "insti-lube" place for a basic oil change and Penzoil brand filter?

[never_retreat]

Wix filters are the schiznits. They make them for napa also.

Although I usually use motorcraft filters on my truck because they are half the price. With a filter bigger than a coffee can it has plenty of surface area inside. I put more oil in the new filter than some cars hold.

[Hawkmoon]

Do I need to get rid of that FRAM ASAP? If yes, who makes good filters that won't make me decide that it is worthwhile to overpay the "insti-lube" place for a basic oil change and Penzoil brand filter?

YES! You need to get rid of the &^$#@*&% Fram filter yesterday. Today is already too late. They are JUNK!

Purolator, available from both Advance Auto (or Checkers/Shucks, depending on your part of the country) and Pep Boys.

[Ben]

Thanks to Brad Johnson for posting the link I couldn't remember in the oil thread. This has some good info on filters:

http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=309304#Post309304

[K Frame]

I used Fram filters exclusively on my 1991 Plymouth and got 161,000 miles out of it before the head gasket failed and I decided to get a new car instead of repairing it.

I wasn't using any oil at that point, either.

[Paragon]

I used to use FRAM filters all the time, until I did the first oil change on the truck I have now.  I had such a bad valve tick that I changed it immediately.  I now stick to Purolator or WIX.  I don't think FRAM is so horrible that you need to take it of right away, though.

[MechAg94]

What filters did the oil change place use?  I am sure they used the most expensive they could buy.

[bedlamite]

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/reference.html#fram

[Boomhauer]

Take the money you save by not going to the oil change place and buy a quality filter.

Oh, and don't let the quick change places near your car. You'll do the job right because you give a damn, they don't.

[AZRedhawk44]

Ditto on staying away from the Jiffy Lubes.

Not once, but twice, I've had them leave the filler cap off the engine, resulting in a hood liner drenched in oil and needing replacement.  They fixed it both times, but since then I've never let the monkeys touch my cars.

I use K&N oil filters.  Oil comes out 3-4k miles later, still golden brown.  Lets me push it to about 5K if I want.

I've heard Purolators are very good.  Never knew about Wix or Napa though.

[roo_ster]

Throughout HS & college, I would go to K or Wal-mart, buy 4 or 5 quarts of 10W40 Quaker State and a Fram filter.

Not sure when Fram went south, but nowadays, I like the stuff NAPA carries (WIX oil filters).

[jackdanson]

meh, fram oil filters, cheap oil, and changing only every 5 or 6k miles didn't do my civic any disservice.  Had 180k on it when it was wrecked.  Maintenance is overrated.

[Balog]

meh, fram oil filters, cheap oil, and changing only every 5 or 6k miles didn't do my civic any disservice.  Had 180k on it when it was wrecked.  Maintenance is overrated.

I lol'ed.

[CNYCacher]

Point of interest: Purolator invented the oil filter, and enjoyed a brand recognition similar to kleenex or band-aid for many years.

I used Fram filters exclusively on my 1991 Plymouth and got 161,000 miles out of it before the head gasket failed and I decided to get a new car instead of repairing it.

I wasn't using any oil at that point, either.

Fram filters are like buying a ticket in the catastrophic engine failure lottery.  Just because you didn't win yet doesn't mean you won't.

[Lennyjoe]

Interesting. I've used Fram for over 22 years now and never had a problem. Also use Castrol oil exclusively and change oil every 3,000 miles. Guess I'm the lucky one.

[K Frame]

"Fram filters are like buying a ticket in the catastrophic engine failure lottery.  Just because you didn't win yet doesn't mean you won't."

 

Yeah, it's a locked in, gold plated, 100% guarantee that that couldn't happen with any other oil filter.  EVERYONE knows that Fram oil filters use old underwear (with HOLES!) for filter media, while every other manufacturer uses solid gold filter screens in housings designed to withstand a direct hit by a 50 megaton nuclear device...


The same can be said for ANYTHING, such as...

"BUYING A FORD IS LIKE BUYING A TICKET IN THE 'SITTING YOUR ass ALONG THE SIDE OF THE ROAD' LOTTERY! JUST BECAUSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET DOESN'ST MEAN IT WON'T!"

"BUYING A GUN IS LIKE BUYING A TICKET IN THE 'SLAUGHTERED BY YOUR OWN GUN IN YOUR BED BY A DISAFFECTED FAMILY MEMBER LOTTER!' JUST BECAUSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET DOESN'T MEAN IT WON'T!"

And so forth and ludicrously so on.

Do you, or anyone else, have HARD numbers and proof cases demonstrating exactly how many cars have suffered engine failures attributable DIRECTLY to a Fram oil filter?

And, to make any such numbers meaningful, do you, or anyone else, have hard numbers and proof cases demonstrating exactly how many cars have suffered engine failures attributable directly to filters from other manufacturers?

No?

Didn't think so.

Hyperbole aside, is the Fram the best filter out there? No, pretty evidently not. Does it do the best filtration job? Apparently not. Are they as durable as other filters? Apparently not.

On the other hand, are other filters absolutely 100% bullet proof and remove 100% of all oil contaminants? No.

Keep the hyperbole to a minimum, please.

[AZRedhawk44]

One mistake I made almost a year ago... I used cheap "house brand" oil at Autozone for my oil change.

Got that yellow goo indicating moisture in the oil.  Got REALLY scared that I had oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil...bad head gasket and all that.

Coolant levels were fine, though.  Changed the oil with good oil (nothing crazy, just name brand - I bounce between Castrol, Penzoil and Chevron as prices float), ran the engine 500 miles while monitoring fluid levels, then changed the oil again.  Nice and clean.  It's been about 10K miles since then and never a problem.

Damn cheap oil.  Never again.  Grr.  Argh.  

[Boomhauer]

My father still uses Fram filters on his Suburban (and just about everything else we own). I don't think he's doing the wrong thing, but I'd rather spend a little money and rest a bit easier.

I put my money with K&N filters for my truck. I really like the nut they put on it so I can put a 1" wrench on it and easily get it off without screwing around with a strap or band wrench.

Oh, and to digitalandanalog, I'd just leave the Fram on there for now and change with a better one at the 3000 mile mark.

[K Frame]

I use only Valvoline 5w-30 in my Subaru. The only times I've ever put anything different in it was when I was low and near the oil change interval and I didn't have any Vavoline available.

The same in my Plymouth.

In my old Maverick I started out with Catrol, but then the place where I bought my oil by the case stopped carrying Castrol and switched to Valvoline.

[Firethorn]

Hyperbole aside, is the Fram the best filter out there? No, pretty evidently not. Does it do the best filtration job? Apparently not. Are they as durable as other filters? Apparently not.

I'll note that digitalandanalog got a toughguard filter.  Those are the ones I get.  FRAM 'extraguard' filters are much crappier, I'd rather spend the extra $2-3 for the better FRAM filter, in my area it's actually tough finding a filter that fits that isn't a FRAM.  Rather than being the same price as the toughguard, Wix/NAPA filters are $5-10 more.

If you read the review mentioned, they only really had 1 complaint for the toughguard, and most filters had at least 1 complaint.

I wouldn't worry about the FRAM toughguard.  It's what I normally use.  I wouldn't get the cheap one(bypasses too easily), or the 'doubleguard', which is the cheap filter +teflon, which doesn't belong in engines.

[CNYCacher]

Keep the hyperbole to a minimum, please.

Hate to tear down the straw man that you spent so much time building up, but I was merely responding to your anecdotal "evidence" about using Fram without a problem.  Gradual engine wear isn't the issue that Fram's critics point to.  The issue is that every once in a while, people get a bad filter that causes immediate and severe damage..

[Tuco]

That, and they have no built in mechanism to maintain pressure (aka anti-siphon). 
This may or may not matter, depending on many things, including:

Type of engine (technology, not brand)
Health and type of oil pump
Oil transport plumbing (can vary from model to model) 
e.g.  the oil filter on my F150 4x4 is about 8" higher in elevation than on a 4x2.

An oil filter on a 1995 Honda 1.5 DOHC, screwed to the block, will require less rigorous adherence to specification than a 1962 Buick Special 215 pushrod V8 with the oil filter attaching to the suck side of a pump housing.

Additionally, those of us who maintain our own vehicles (for reasons of pride, economic or leisure) may care to know that a hand tightened fram oil filter will deform when fitted with a wrench for removal.  The cases are very thin. 

Are you ready to make an informed decision regarding your oil filter?  I am.  I choose to avoid fram.

[K Frame]

If you TRULY knew what you were talking about, you'd recognize that I never posited my experiences with Fram filters as anything other than MY experiences with my Plymouth over a period of 15 years. Personal experiences are hardly scientifically based fact derived in a calculated, experimental fashion. That's why it's called personal experience; that's why recounting such experiences isn't a straw man.

In order for my argument to be a fallacy (and I'm not surprised you don't know this), I would have had to have met TWO criteria:

1. My statement of experience;

2. An ancillary claim that because of my experiences with said filters, every other filter produced by the company would act the same way and every other consumer would experience what I experienced.

If offered NO refutation to the claim that Fram filters are of poor quality based on my experience, I only stated my experience. How you chose to misinterpret it based on your own experiences and prejudices is your fault, not mine.

But, then again, your admonition IS fact, right? It's SUCH hard hitting scientific fact that it's backed up with studies and data disks and computer models to what, 9 decimal places?


"The issue is that every once in a while, people get a bad filter that causes immediate and severe damage." Yeah, no "straw man" argument there, right?

Here, also, is a PERFECTLY valid correlary to that statement:

"Every day, thousands of people use Fram filters that NEVER fail and never cause immediate, severe damage."

[CNYCacher]

And every day, thousands of people buy lottery tickets that don't NEVER win.

Sheesh.

[K Frame]

"Additionally, those of us who maintain our own vehicles (for reasons of pride, economic or leisure) may care to know that a hand tightened fram oil filter will deform when fitted with a wrench for removal.  The cases are very thin."

UH OH! DANGER! Another straw man coming! (is that anything like the Wicker man?)

The design on my Plymouth was such that I never had to use an oil filter wrench on the filter. It was on the side of the engine facing the front of the car with enough space around it that I could grab it with both hands and turn it off without any trouble.

Because of the horizontal aspect I normally would put a small pan under the filter and puncture it with a screw driver on the side and on the top to let the oil drain before I unscrewed it.

The casings on Fram filters did seem to be a bit thinner than on other brands, but is that really an important performance mark? Oil filters should be screwed on slightly more than finger tight on installation, and when removing it it shouldn't matter how much the filter case crunches becuase it's going to be tossed.