Inexpensive Furnaces

[Desertdog]

Sounds like a good deal.  I do have a question though.  Does it have a standing pilot or an electronic ignitor?   Being made in America it should have the electronic ignitor.

Many makes of furnaces now are 90 - 95% efficient which can save you 10 - 15% on the gas bill compared to your new furnace.

The smoke ring around your water heater does not mean as much, since the door was off, as smoke stains around the tope of the vent stack.  Smoke at the top of the vent means your water heater is not burning clean, which also means it is generating some carbon manoxide.

[Nick1911]

Sounds like a good deal.  I do have a question though.  Does it have a standing pilot or an electronic ignitor?   Being made in America it should have the electronic ignitor.

Hot-surface igniter - no standing pilot.

Many makes of furnaces now are 90 - 95% efficient which can save you 10 - 15% on the gas bill compared to your new furnace.

That's true, and if I were buying these at market value, I'd probably opt for a 95% unit.  There are tax credits available for those, too!

But as it stands, this unit is $1000 cheaper then a 95% unit.

The smoke ring around your water heater does not mean as much, since the door was off, as smoke stains around the tope of the vent stack.  Smoke at the top of the vent means your water heater is not burning clean, which also means it is generating some carbon manoxide.

Yea - no carbon buildup on the top end.  I'm not overly concerned.

[Desertdog]

Yea - no carbon buildup on the top end.  I'm not overly concerned.

As long as there are no carbon buildup at the top of the stack there is no reason to worry.

[geronimotwo]

doesn't carrier needed a factory authorized installer to make use of the warrenty?

[280plus]

I'm not sure how they would handle it. My impression is that you would have to have an account with them or at least be able to prove you are in the HVAC business. Letterhead, business check or business card is usually enough to get wholesale at most places. But then again, that's just for getting the wholesale price. You may be able to buy there but if you're not a business you will (or should) be charged retail.

As far as warrantee, you don't HAVE to be an authorized dealer. I'm not even though I sell them and can get warrantee parts etc. I tried the AD route but I felt it was more of a ploy to get more $ out of my wallet. It's actually more of an advertising gimmick, and a $100 a month fee that was sucking the life out of me with little to no income generated in return. If you check their AD list my area you'll find at least 10 contractors all calling themselves authorized dealers. Uh, how many do you need?  My business was just one of at least 10 that showed up on a list when you searched for ADs for the HArtford area, so already the best I'll do is MAYBE garner 10% of the traffic that is actually interested in doing any work. My experience was to garner 0% for my $100 monthly investment. I did it for a year, I figured that was enough to spend on nothing.

I caught the regional manager in the office today. He was looking pretty green after I told him the story of the $942 wholesale furnace going for $399 shipped. 

[Nick1911]

I registered the furnace with Carrier, online.  I didn't see anything about installation by authorized dealer in the warranty information, although I'm sure that would come up if something were to fail and I pressed them for a replacement on warranty.

[280plus]

Nah, nothing says an "Authorized Dealer" has to do anything. It's just a tag they pay for so they can put it on their trucks and in their advertisement and believe it gives them an edge.

If you ever have to make a warrantee claim I'm not sure if they'll deal with you directly. If they won't you just have to find any old HVAC company to get the parts and do the job, but you'll end up paying labor which Carrier doesn't pay after 30 days anyways. Your service company is the one who warrantees labor after 30 days. Some do, some don't. I do and I don't really put a time limit on it. 2 years maybe but if I feel you got a bum deal cause something crapped out prematurely I'll take care of it. That's why I am so loved around here. I don't screw people like a lot of guys do.

Chances are you'll never have to make a claim anyways. I can't recall any I've done on any carrier furnace. A compressor or two over the years yes but the furnaces for the most part are pretty well built and with good parts.

[CNYCacher]

Presumably with the right ductwork, you could use one of these to replace any natural gas forced-air furnace right?

Like my 1960's behemoth with the cast-iron heat exchanger in the basement?

It just looks small to me and the inside view seems weird.

[Nick1911]

Presumably with the right ductwork, you could use one of these to replace any natural gas forced-air furnace right?

Like my 1960's behemoth with the cast-iron heat exchanger in the basement?

It just looks small to me and the inside view seems weird.

1.  This is a natural gas forced-air furnace.

2. I am using it to replace a 1960's behemoth who's heat exchanger's material I can't identify due to all the rust.

3. It is physically quite a lot shorter then my current furnace.  I think it owes that to the draft inducer, which pulls the hot combustion gases through a convoluted heat exchanger - which is why the inside looks weird.  I think you can get a lot more surface area using this design, and it's not a straight up and out approach.

[Nick1911]

Hey 280 - is there any kind of recommended flexible duct material you guys use?

It would be nice to connect the return air with some kind of flexible connection, but I've heard of that stuff failing after only a few years. 

[CNYCacher]

Hey 280 - is there any kind of recommended flexible duct material you guys use?

It would be nice to connect the return air with some kind of flexible connection, but I've heard of that stuff failing after only a few years. 

What about those round elbows that are rotate to get the right angle?

[KD5NRH]

Hey 280 - is there any kind of recommended flexible duct material you guys use?

It's all flexible if you push hard enough.

[Balog]

That's what she said...

[CNYCacher]

Can you vent these horizontally?  I would love to tear out the old chimney in my basement (wall, attic and roof).

[Desertdog]

Go here and read the specs or call them and talk to them.
http://www.alpinehomeair.com/viewcategory.cfm?categoryID=470

[280plus]

Hey 280 - is there any kind of recommended flexible duct material you guys use?

It would be nice to connect the return air with some kind of flexible connection, but I've heard of that stuff failing after only a few years. 

I'm not sure what you mean. There is "flexible duct' which closely resembles a slinky with a plastic coatng and insulation over that. It comes in diameters from like 4" all the way up to I think 18", maybe larger. It does last a while. It also only comes in 25' pieces.

 Then theres what we call a "flexible connector" which is two strips of sheetmetal joined by canvas and it's about 12" in width. It can be purchased in rolls and shaped to fit any duct. We use it to make the final connections at the furnace because nothing else will move so it gives you the slack you need to make the final connections. It also helps stop noise and vibration from being transmitted down the duct from the furnace.

THEN there is what we call "ductboard" which is high density fiberglass that is coated on one side by aluminum foil type stuff and is raw fibergalss on the other. The aluminum goes to the outside and the exposed fiberglass is on the inside where it is continually eroded by the airflow and introduces glass fibers to the living areas. Eventually all the fiberglass erodes away leaving only an aluminum foil shell. THIS stuff I would avoid like the plague.

Hope that answers your question?

[Nick1911]

Then theres what we call a "flexible connector" which is two strips of sheetmetal joined by canvas and it's about 12" in width. It can be purchased in rolls and shaped to fit any duct. We use it to make the final connections at the furnace because nothing else will move so it gives you the slack you need to make the final connections. It also helps stop noise and vibration from being transmitted down the duct from the furnace.

This!  Thank you!

I need to find me some.  I'm hoping it can it be used on the supply side... ie: it can deal with the output temperatures?

Thanks for helping me out with this stuff.   

[280plus]

Not a prob, just don't blow yourself up! 

Yes, we use flex duct on the supply all the time.

[280plus]

Oh, wait a minute! 

I wouldn't use flex duct to make the connection from the furnace supply to the extsting ductwork because the temps directly off the top of the furnace ARE too high for it. We only use "flex" to connect the furnace on the return side and from the supply side trunk to the outlets.

My suggestion would be to find a local HVAC company and have them make up the flexible connector and a "transition" or "plenum" for you. Measure both the furnace outlet and the existing duct opening as well as the distance between the two. Sketch a diagram of what it looks like. I would hope they'd be able to put what you need togather for you. Plenum goes on the furnace first abd then the flexible connector gets weaseled in there to finish it off. Good luck!

[Jim147]

Did you get this thing in yet?
I know a sheet metal guy in Lenexa if you need him.

And how many people did it take to get that old Fedders out? Or is it just shoved in the corner?

jim

[Nick1911]

Did you get this thing in yet?
I know a sheet metal guy in Lenexa if you need him.

And how many people did it take to get that old Fedders out? Or is it just shoved in the corner?

jim

Haven't got it in yet.

Mrs. Nick1911 is somewhat concerned that we need a permit from the city to do this... I don't think that's the case, but we'll probably hold off until I can verify that.  We don't want something like that to bite us in the butt later on.

I could see it requiring an inspection or some-such silliness. 

[Nick1911]

Huh.  Gas furnace replacement DOES require a building permit, and final inspection.

How about that.

[CNYCacher]

Huh.  Gas furnace replacement DOES require a building permit, and final inspection.

How about that.

Dangit.

[Scout26]

Huh.  Gas furnace replacement DOES require a building permit, and final inspection.

How about that.

Big Brother can't allow you to accidently blow yourself up... :rolleyes:

[mtnbkr]

Huh.  Gas furnace replacement DOES require a building permit, and final inspection.

How about that.

The final inspection isn't a big deal.  I had to do that when Mike and I replaced my gas water heater (more than 6 years ago).  The inspection took 2 minutes and consisted of the inspector visually making sure the connections were connected properly, the heater wasn't in a bad location, and there was no gas smell.

Chris