Author Topic: From Winky to Mohammed: Free Speech and Comments on a Fabricated (un)Holiday  (Read 20599 times)

roo_ster

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The text of the article I reference below is good stuff, but the visuals really make hte impact stick:

Winky, from wayback in many comic book & magazine adertisements:



Mohammed, an advertisement for a new age:



And now, the text:



http://pajamasmedia.com/zombie/2010/05/20/the-new-free-speech-movement/

The New Free Speech Movement

Today is Everybody Draw Mohammed Day, a completely made-up satirical “holiday” dedicated to the concept of drawing Mohammed cartoons, as a way of making a statement about freedom of speech.

Not everyone agrees with this idea, however. And I’m not just talking about the expected naysayers — that is, fundamentalist Muslims (who demand that no one be allowed to depict their prophet) and progressive multiculturalists (who run interference for fundamentalist Muslims by insisting that we all obey Islamic demands or risk being branded racists).

No, even some level-headed conservative-leaning pundits have begun to cast aspersions on this whole Mohammed cartoon thing. Most notable among them is J.E. Dyer, whose recent article posted at HotAir entitled “Provocation isn’t the highest form of free speech” made the argument that mocking Mohammed is basically pointless “provocation” and that, although provocative speech is protected, is it the embarrassing step-child of the noble, high-toned political speech imagined by our forefathers, and as such should be avoided lest we come off as brutes and rubes. To quote the key passage of Dyer’s thesis,

Quote
    The right to offend others is something that gets a pass because of the good that comes from the better, higher, more important right to make our own philosophical decisions. The right to be deliberately offensive is a parasite, not a first principle.

I disagree. Strongly. And I’ll tell you why.

Who Decides What Is Provocative?
Protesters in Pakistan yesterday, angry about the Everybody Draw Mohammed Day Facebook page

This is not an argument over the right to be “provocative” or “offensive”; rather, is it something much more significant — an argument over who gets to determine what counts as provocative or offensive in the first place. The Western world dragged itself out of the church-dominated Dark Ages and into the Enlightenment in part over this precise issue: The freedom to engage in speech and actions which formerly had been classified as the crime known as “blasphemy.” It seems such a trivial and quaint issue in retrospect, and hardly worthy of note from our hyper-secularized 21st-century perspective, but tell that to the millions of people who for centuries lived under the yoke of governments which used accusations of blasphemy and other religious misbehaviors as a primary tool of tyranny and oppression. The modern world dawned with the American and French Revolutions and the emergence of the explicitly secular state — the Americans rejecting the Church of England as Britain’s legally enforced national religion, and the French shrugging off centuries of acquiescence to domination by the Catholic Church in civil affairs. In both cases, new governmental paradigms were established in which there was an inviolable separation of church and state, which in practice meant no civil laws enforcing religious doctrines and (most importantly for our discussion) no laws against blasphemy.

We’re now so accustomed to this liberated society that we have all but forgotten how horrible it was in the Bad Old Days before our Founding Fathers (wipes away tear) created a safe haven for the human mind, a place called the United States of America. The laws and punishments of the Puritans and of the Spanish Inquisition and all the rest were decisively and emphatically swept off the table and replaced with a simple principle: personal freedom. Freedom of conscience, freedom of thought, and freedom of speech.

Everybody Expects the Islamic Inquistion

Well, the Spanish Inquisition may be a distant memory now relegated to Monty Python skits, but the self-appointed Islamic Inquisition is threatening to take its place. Remember that the Spanish Inquisition (and the much larger papal inquisition which preceded it) existed for the purpose of enforcing religious dictates on the general populace, including and especially religious crimes such as heresy, blasphemy, and apostasy. Punishment for these deeds could be severe and often as not included torture or execution. This is exactly what the Islamic fundamentalists want to impose on us in the 21st century: Obedience to religious dictates, enforced where necessary by violence.

Luckily, outside of a few Middle Eastern countries, the Islamists do not have the power to enforce their hellish vision of society. But that doesn’t stop them from trying. Where they can’t impose their religious rules by force, they try to impose them by fear and intimidation. Since we have our freedoms permanently etched into our Constitution, the Islamists are going to have little luck getting blasphemy laws passed in the U.S. Yet they can achieve the same result if they can use terror to bring about our own self-censorship. Which is exactly what they have set about doing, the most recent round starting with the murder of Theo Van Gogh in 2004 and reaching the boiling point with the Danish Cartoon Controversy in 2006. The pot hasn’t stopped boiling since. The Islamists’ strategy is to kill, or threaten to kill, anyone who gets media attention for “disrespecting” Islam or Mohammed — thereby convincing the rest of us infidels to remain silent if we know what’s good for us.

And here we come to the crux of the matter. Which side in this conflict gets to determine what counts as “disrespectful” (a contemporary euphemism for “blasphemous”)? In the jihadists’ view, any depiction of Mohammed — even a positive or honorific depiction — is deemed blasphemous. It’s our religion, they say, so we get to say what’s offensive. Yet if we grant them this inch, they’ll take another inch (it’s also disrespectful to write Mohammed’s name without a worshipful “PBUH” after it), and another inch (it’s disrespectful to criticize Islam in any way), and before long it’s the whole mile, and we once again will be living in an intellectual Middle Ages in which religious tyrants dictate our every thought and action.

So you can see the urge of every sane-minded Westerner to say a hearty *expletive deleted*ck you! to anyone who tries to erode away the bedrock of our free society. The more insistent (and violent) these attempts at erosion, the less civil the resistance will become. Which is exactly as it should be. If the Islamists want us to to stop mocking (or even questioning) Mohammed, they can achieve this goal quite simply: Just go away and leave us alone. Don’t bother us, and we won’t bother you. Seriously, 99% of non-Muslims don’t give a good goddamn about Mohammed one way or the other, and we’d gladly ignore him and his followers til the end of time – if they’d just stop trying to boss us around. But if someone comes to our safe haven and tries to impose a repressive or restrictive rule on us, then that is the exact rule we’re going to flout until the interlopers learn their lesson: We don’t take kindly to bullshit medieval religious oppression in these parts.

And so we return to J.E. Dyer’s essay, where she essentially argues that freedom of speech is simply the vehicle through which we can express our political ideals without fear of reprisal. While that may be true, it leaves out the final piece of the puzzle: Freedom of speech itself is our highest political ideal. We need freedom of speech not merely so we can discuss Aristotle and the Teapot Dome Scandal and non-proliferation treaties, but more importantly we need freedom of speech so we can defend the unconditional right of freedom to speak — or think, or draw, for that matter. As soon as someone comes along as says (as Dyer does) that some forms of speech are “better” or “higher” than others, the implication is that the the low-class expressions are somehow less worthy of defending. But that way lies the road to ruin. We would soon begin to slide down what I call Niemöller’s Slippery Slope, which in this instance would begin, “First they came for the cartoonists….”

It is precisely the most offensive speech which needs to be defended, because that is the only speech which ever gets challenged in the first place. If we cave in on this seemingly trivial issue, we have already lost.
Mario Savio in 1964 helped launch the Free Speech Movement into national consciousness by climbing atop a police car at U.C. Berkeley and denouncing campus rules which prohibited political speech

The New Free Speech Movement

And it is often on the most trivial of points that history pivots. Take, for example, the original Free Speech Movement of the mid-1960s, which was the fuse that ignited the social transformations in the second half of that decade. At first, the initial dispute was over something as ridiculous as which student groups were allowed to have a literature table on U.C. Berkeley’s Sproul Plaza, and whether or not the sidewalk bordering the campus counted as university property (where leafletting would be banned) or city property (where it would be allowed). Hardly something worth getting worked up over. But the students pressed the issue, and pressed, and eventually an utterly trivial local dispute became a not-so-trivial local dispute, and when the University caved in, it opened the floodgates to student activism and social upheaval first at Berkeley and eventually across the nation (and world, for that matter).

I posit that this cartoon fiasco may look as trivial now as did the silly Berkeley sidewalk dispute back in 1964, but it could very well morph into a new Free Speech Movement which could affect the course of history just as much as did the first one.

The Mohammed cartoons — whether they appear in a Danish newspaper, on South Park, on Everybody Draw Mohammed Day, or anywhere else, are basically our way of saying, Bring it on. They are an intentional goading to accelerate the inevitable clash of civilizations: totalitarianism vs. democracy, religion vs. secularism, repression vs. freedom, Islam vs. the liberal West — choose your definitions. It’s coming, whether we like it or not. And it’s quite apparent to the Mohammed cartoonists and their supporters that, currently, Team Islam does not have the tools to win. Philosophically, militarily, financially, analytically, morally and in just about every other way they have a losing hand. But the crazy part is, they don’t seem to realize it quite yet. So, from a strategic standpoint, if your opponent is overconfident and bound to lose yet still itching for a fight, it’s best to let him engage now and get defeated, than wait for some future day of conflict where the outcome may be in doubt.

Islamic extremists still seem to think that banning Facebook or threatening to kill the Everybody Draw Mohammed Day organizers will somehow make the problem of blasphemy go away. They don’t yet understand that we in the West have spent the last 600 years not merely earning the right to be blasphemous, but more importantly creating a society and a worldview in which there is no such thing as blasphemy, because all forms of speech are permitted and religious bullies no longer get to determine what is forbidden.

Now get out your pencils and start drawing.
Regards,

roo_ster

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Now get out your pencils and start drawing.

You heard the writer!
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Mabs2

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I really never understood people who made it their mission to go around offending peoples' religions.
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OK, that explains this morning's Over the Hedge comic strip . . .

Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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AZRedhawk44

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Most notable among them is J.E. Dyer, whose recent article posted at HotAir entitled “Provocation isn’t the highest form of free speech” made the argument that mocking Mohammed is basically pointless “provocation” and that, although provocative speech is protected, is it the embarrassing step-child of the noble, high-toned political speech imagined by our forefathers, and as such should be avoided lest we come off as brutes and rubes.

Paul Revere's 18th century illustrations were hardly high-toned political speech.
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I really never understood people who made it their mission to go around offending peoples' religions.

Quote from:  the article in the Original Post
.... we in the West have spent the last 600 years not merely earning the right to be blasphemous, but more importantly creating a society and a worldview in which there is no such thing as blasphemy, because all forms of speech are permitted and religious bullies no longer get to determine what is forbidden...
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I thought this was going to be about boxers. Winky Wright and Mohammed Ali.

roo_ster

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I really never understood people who made it their mission to go around offending peoples' religions.

From the article:
Quote
So you can see the urge of every sane-minded Westerner to say a hearty *expletive deleted* you! to anyone who tries to erode away the bedrock of our free society. The more insistent (and violent) these attempts at erosion, the less civil the resistance will become. Which is exactly as it should be. If the Islamists want us to to stop mocking (or even questioning) Mohammed, they can achieve this goal quite simply: Just go away and leave us alone. Don’t bother us, and we won’t bother you.

The mission is not to insult Islam.  The mission is to preserve our tradition of free expression in the face of those who would deny us that freedom by threats of violence.

In this case, the idea is to spread the risk.  Mark Steyn makes hte point fairly well:
Everybody Draws Mohammed Day   [Mark Steyn]

Veronique, I initially had mixed feelings about Everybody Draws Mohammed Day. Provocation for its own sake is one of the dreariest features of contemporary culture, but that's not what this is about. Nick Gillespie's post reminds us that the three most offensive of the "Danish cartoons" — including the one showing Mohammed as a pig —were not by any Jyllands-Posten cartoonists but were actually faked by Scandinavian imams for the purposes of stirring up outrage among Muslims. As Mr Gillespie says:

    It is nothing less than amazing that holy men decrying the desecration of their religion would create such foul images, but there you have it. It is as if the pope created “Piss Christ” and then passed it off as the work of critics of Catholicism.

So, if it really is a sin to depict Mohammed, then these imams will be roasting in hell. (Unless, of course, taqqiya permits Muslims to break their own house rules for the purpose of sticking it to the infidels.)

But, that aside, the clerics' action underlines what's going on: the real provocateurs are the perpetually aggrieved and ever more aggressive Islamic bullies — emboldened by the silence of "moderate Muslims" and the preemptive capitulation of western media. I was among a small group of columnists in the Oval Office when President Bush, after running through selected highlights from a long list of Islamic discontents, concluded with an exasperated: "If it's not the Crusades, it's the cartoons." That'd make a great bumper sticker: It encapsulsates both Islam's inability to move on millennium-in millennium-out, plus the grievance-mongers' utter lack of proportion.

I'm bored with death threats. And, as far as I'm concerned, if that's your opening conversational gambit, then any obligation on my part to "cultural sensitivity" and "mutual respect" is over. The only way to stop this madness destroying our liberties is (as Ayaan Hirsi Ali puts it) to spread the risk. Everybody Draws Mohammed Day does just that. Various websites are offering prizes. I only wish we could track down those sicko Danish imams* who drew their prophet as a pig, and send them the trophy.

(*PS If I seem somewhat obsessed by this point, it's because the Government of Alberta spent three years investigating my friend Ezra Levant for publishing the (authentic) Motoons, and, despite the cost to taxpayers, assigned a halfwit apparatchik to grill him about the cartoons who didn't even know that what she called the three "worst" ones were fakes.)


No matter how many times "artists" dunked the crucifix in urine or speared feces on images of the Virgin Mary, the most ardent watchdogs of anti-Roman Catholic expression manage to NOT threaten torture & death:
What Does the Catholic League Do?

    * When slanderous assaults are made against the Catholic Church, the Catholic League hits the newspapers, television, and radio talk shows defending the right of the Church to promote its teachings with as much verve as any other institution in society.
    * When Catholics are the victims of a bigoted portrayal by the media, the Catholic League issues news releases bringing the matter to the attention of the public. It may also encourage a boycott of the program's sponsors.
    * When Catholic students or employees are denied their rights in school or on the job, the Catholic League makes a formal response to the guilty parties; the league response may include litigation.
    * When the religious freedom rights of any American are threatened, the Catholic League stands ready to fight for justice in the courts.
    * When Catholics are slighted by public officials, the Catholic League calls press conferences alerting the public to the unacceptable behavior of their servants.
    * When Catholic interests are unfairly represented by public policy initiatives, the Catholic League offers testimony before legislative bodies to set the record straight.
    * When officials in government, the media and education need an informed perspective on Catholic civil rights issues, the Catholic League provides a quick and effective response.

Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Mabs2

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That does nothing but further confuse me.  Why people think that it's ok to actively offend other people just because they have different worldviews.  Just because a certain percentage of a certain religious group goes nutters when something offends them doesn't mean we should go out of our way to offend them.  That's just immaturity.
From the article:
The mission is not to insult Islam.  The mission is to preserve our tradition of free expression in the face of those who would deny us that freedom by threats of violence.
Call it what you want, it's just plain rude and immature.
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taurusowner

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I get that if someone is threatening violence if you don't curtail your thoughts or speech, they deserve ridicule.  But Mabs does have a point.  There are people, a lot of "artists" come to mind, who make it their sole purpose to offend religion, and not just when people are using the religion as a stepping stone for violence.

Marnoot

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Many atheists (certainly not all, and more true of politically liberal atheists in my experience) think that because you believe in something they think to be hogwash, it gives them the greenlight to mock, ridicule, and offend. After all, how can it be wrong to mock someone for believing something you don't? It is right to mock the poor uneducated rednecks that believe in a God rather than solely in the deity of Infallible Science.

This can range anywhere from the dunking a crucifix in urine for "art" to comments (occasionally found here on APS, unfortunately) referring to someone's God as your "imaginary invisible friend in the sky" and other denigrating remarks.

I find many atheists to proselytize their faith more than those who believe in a deity, but rather than holy writ their tract material generally consists of juvenile name-calling and crude mockery.

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Many atheists (certainly not all, and more true of politically liberal atheists in my experience) think that because you believe in something they think to be hogwash, it gives them the greenlight to mock, ridicule, and offend. After all, how can it be wrong to mock someone for believing something you don't? It is right to mock the poor uneducated rednecks that believe in a God rather than solely in the deity of Infallible Science.



And many Deists believe that if you don't believe in thier chosen god/religion/path, that you deserve open ridicule and mocking.  I've sat in on some of those sessions in churches where non believers are mocked and ridiculed from the pulpit. 
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taurusowner

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And many Deists believe that if you don't believe in thier chosen god/religion/path, that you deserve open ridicule and mocking.  I've sat in on some of those sessions in churches where non believers are mocked and ridiculed from the pulpit. 

The key phrase being "in churches".  I don't give 2 shiats what some hippies in a cafe in San Francisco say about my faith to each other.  I do care when they come in my face and ridicule me.  Or try to get their version of what is "right" adopted by every school in the country.

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The key phrase being "in churches".  I don't give 2 shiats what some hippies in a cafe in San Francisco say about my faith to each other.  I do care when they come in my face and ridicule me.  Or try to get their version of what is "right" adopted by every school in the country.

Something we do agree on, and why I'd love to see the death of the public school system. 
JD

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And many Deists believe that if you don't believe in thier chosen god/religion/path, that you deserve open ridicule and mocking.  I've sat in on some of those sessions in churches where non believers are mocked and ridiculed from the pulpit. 

As sad as it is, some of those in the pagan "Freedom of religion means any religion" camp are under the mistaken impression that it's OK to take potshots at (usually) Christians.

After the ritual leader of one local group pulled a stunt like that during a ceremony at an open-to-the-public event I was attending, I read him the riot act and withdrew further invitation from him to perform the main ritual that he had been performing annually at another event that I co-chair.

There's no place for that sort of crap in any group that purports to be a positive influence on people.  My group's pagan, but we have Christians who stand in Circle with us, and they're as much a part of the community as anyone else; I won't have anyone's faith being ridiculed on my own sacred ground.
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I agrgee with the non-ridiculing other religions. Vehement disagreement or ridiculing certain laughable positions is ok when done properly, imho.

As for the Mohammed thing, you kinda lose your right to not be mocked when you try to use death threats and violence to enforce your religious beliefs.
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roo_ster

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Call it what you want, it's just plain rude and immature.

Have you not been paying attention the last ten years? 

The usual plot goes like this:
1. Someone comments on or criticizes Islam or some aspect of Islam.
2. They are denounced and threatened with violence.
3. Some screaming beard kills them. 

In Theo van Gogh's case, the screaming beard shot him off his bike, disemboweled Theo as he lay writhing in agony on the ground, attempted to saw Theo's head off (but was confounded by neck bones and only got 3/4 the way through),  and then used the knife to pin his note on Theo by running the knife through the note and Theo's heart.

In the case of the Mohammed cartoons, the screaming beards rioted and killed hundreds.

And your complaint is that it would be rude to the head-choppers?   :facepalm:

Again:
If many draw Mo in their favorite fashion, the risk of any particular person being killed and tortured for free expression is spread to the point where it is pretty much worthless to kill any one person over it.

I get that if someone is threatening violence if you don't curtail your thoughts or speech, they deserve ridicule.  But Mabs does have a point.  There are people, a lot of "artists" come to mind, who make it their sole purpose to offend religion, and not just when people are using the religion as a stepping stone for violence.

Yes...and the proper response in a civilized nation is to speak out against that, use social approbation to ridicule and isolate them, etc.  See what the Catholic League does in my previous post.  They are labeled  "far right Christians" in America.

Once people threaten violence, they have forfeited the restraint and limitations civilized folk place on discourse and should reap the whirlwind and have it shoved back in their face.



Something we do agree on, and why I'd love to see the death of the public school system. 

This would go a long, long way to reduce tension between the various camps. 


Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Marnoot

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I agrgee with the non-ridiculing other religions. Vehement disagreement or ridiculing certain laughable positions is ok when done properly, imho.

So which is it? Do you approve of ridicule of others for their sincerely held beliefs or not? You believe ridicule is acceptable so long as you think the belief is laughable? How is that any different than atheists mocking you because they think your beliefs are laughable?

Are you referring to private mockery amongst those of your persuasion, or open mockery of someone who holds said laughable belief? If someone sincerely believes God has commanded they wear pink tutus, one may understandably snigger in private, but open mockery is another thing entirely.

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That does nothing but further confuse me.  .....

Let me say it again, louder.

Quote
...religious bullies no longer get to determine what is forbidden...
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If one believes that soldiers dying is punishment because God hates fags, and further believes that the appropriate venue to display this belief is picketing soldier's funerals: yeah, I'm all for public ridicule of their belief system.
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I'm all for ridicule of those who believe that dissent deserves execution.
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HankB

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As for the Mohammed thing, you kinda lose your right to not be mocked when you try to use death threats and violence to enforce your religious beliefs.

Quoted in previous posts, but worth quoting again . . .

Quote
So you can see the urge of every sane-minded Westerner to say a hearty *expletive deleted* you! to anyone who tries to erode away the bedrock of our free society. The more insistent (and violent) these attempts at erosion, the less civil the resistance will become. Which is exactly as it should be. If the Islamists want us to to stop mocking (or even questioning) Mohammed, they can achieve this goal quite simply: Just go away and leave us alone.

Mocking one's enemies is an old tradition . . . humor directed at the "Nips" and "Krauts" during WWII ranged from overly stereotypical cartoons directed at the Japanese to the Spike Jones song Der Fuehrer's Face, complete with Bronx cheers, aimed at Hitler. (I think it was featured in a Donald Duck cartoon of the period.)

I'm not going to lose sleep over offending the sensibilities of someone who considers me an infidel, fit ONLY to be killed or subjugated into dhimmitude.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 10:27:03 PM by HankB »
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
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If one believes that soldiers dying is punishment because God hates fags, and further believes that the appropriate venue to display this belief is picketing soldier's funerals: yeah, I'm all for public ridicule of their belief system.

Point taken. Agreed it's not necessarily a black and white issue; though I doubt the sincerity of their belief. Their whole thing seems more like a money-making-by-lawsuit venture.

MicroBalrog

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Quote
In the case of the Mohammed cartoons, the screaming beards rioted and killed hundreds.

1. Actually, far more anti-cartoon rioters were killed than vice versa.

2. The problem is that the majority of Muslims are not screaming beards. To insult their faith in this manner is about the same as drawing a 'Piss Jesus' to try and annoy, say, Fred Phelps.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Jamisjockey

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I'm all for ridiculing anyone and everyone that doesn't believe the way I do.  Stick your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalala" if you don't like it. 
Unpopular speech is still protected. 
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”