Author Topic: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...  (Read 31161 times)

roo_ster

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2010, 10:39:45 AM »
Regards,

roo_ster

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RocketMan

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2010, 12:43:59 PM »
Quote
Coast Guard is reporting they've stopped the leak.

Without the use of WD-40 or nukes.

Well, that was no fun.
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dogmush

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2010, 12:47:52 PM »
Without the use of WD-40 or nukes.

I'm sure there's WD-40 and duct tape on that ship.

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2010, 09:00:46 PM »
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-oil-spill-stopped-top-kill-link,0,1045555.story?track=rss

Hmmm...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/sns-graphics-oil-spill-estimate-gx,0,2477093.graphic

"Worst oil spill in US history," so they don't have to mention the mess the Mexicans made with IXTOC I.  Funny how nobody's brought it up in the mainstream media while they're saying we have nothing to go by on what sort of environmental catastrophe this will be.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2010, 09:08:40 PM »
By Tim Johnson | McClatchy Newspapers

MEXICO CITY — The Ixtoc 1 oil spill in Mexico's shallow Campeche Sound three decades ago serves as a distant mirror to today's BP deepwater blowout, and marine scientists are still pondering what they learned from its aftereffects.

In terms of blowouts, Ixtoc 1 was a monster — until the ongoing BP leak, the largest accidental spill in history. Some 3.3 million barrels of oil gushed over nearly 10 months, spreading an oil slick as far north as Texas, where gooey tar balls washed up on beaches.

Surprisingly, Mexican scientists say that Campeche Sound itself recovered rather quickly, and a sizable shrimp industry returned to normal within two years.

Luis A. Soto, a deep-sea biologist, had earned his doctorate from the University of Miami a year before the June 3, 1979, blowout of Ixtoc 1 in 160 feet of water in the Campeche Sound, the shallow, oil-rich continental shelf off the Yucatan Peninsula.

Soto and other Mexican marine scientists feared the worst when they examined sea life in the sound once oil workers finally capped the blowout in March 1980.

"To be honest, because of our ignorance, we thought everything was going to die," Soto said.

The scientists didn't know what effects the warm temperatures of gulf waters, intense solar radiation, and other factors from the tropical ecosystem would have on the crude oil polluting the sound.

There were political implications as well; the spill pitted a furious shrimping industry, reliant on the nutrient-rich Campeche Sound, against a powerful state oil company betting its future in offshore drilling, particularly the continental shelf in the Gulf of Mexico it began developing in the late 1970s.

In the months after Ixtoc 1 was capped, scientists trawled the waters of the sound for signs of biological distress.

"I found shrimp with tumor formations in the tissue, and crabs without the pincers. These were very serious effects," Soto said.

Another Mexican marine biologist, Leonardo Lizarraga Partida, said the evaluation team began measuring oil content in the sediment, evaluating microorganisms in the water and checking on the biomass of shrimp species.

As the studies extended into a second year, scientists noticed how fast the marine environment recovered, helped by naturally occurring microbes that feasted on the oil and degraded it.

Perhaps due to those microbes, Tunnell found that aquatic life along the shoreline in Texas had returned to normal within three years — even as tar balls and tar mats remained along the beaches, sometimes covered by sand.

"We were really surprised," Lizarraga said. "After two years, the conditions were really almost normal."

The Gulf currents and conditions of the Ixtoc 1 spill helped. Unlike the BP blowout, which has spewed at least 5,000 barrels of oil a day, and perhaps many times that, at depths near 5,000 feet, the Ixtoc 1 oil gushed right to the surface, and currents slowly took the crude north as far as Texas, killing turtles, sea birds and other sea life.

"I measured 80 percent reduction in all combined species that were living in the intertidal zone," said Wes Tunnell, a marine biologist at the Harte Research Institute of Gulf of Mexico Studies at Texas A&M University in Corpus Christi.

While that was severe, Tunnell noted that natural oil that seeps from the seabed releases the equivalent of one to two supertankers of crude in the Gulf of Mexico each year.

"It's what I call a chronic spill," Tunnell said. "The good side of having all that seepage out there is that we've got a huge population of microbes, bacteria that feed on petroleum products in the water and on shore. So that helps the recovery time."

An expert on the biodegradation of petroleum, Rita R. Colwell, who holds posts both at the University of Maryland and Johns Hopkins University, said microorganisms are good at breaking down the short chain molecular compounds in crude.

"For the bacteria, they really chew it and release it as CO2," Colwell said. "The longer stuff that has long ring compounds, that's the stuff that remains."

A bloom in oil-consuming microorganisms turned out to be a boon to shrimp in the Campeche Sound, to the relief of the crews on the 650 shrimp boats that trawled in the sound back then.

"The shrimp fed on the bacteria. When you are making the chemical analysis of the shrimp, you obtain the fingerprint," Soto said, adding that petroleum compounds contain unique chemistry just as flora and fauna contain unique genes.

Just as a human body rallies its defenses to fight off invasive germs, Soto said, the microorganisms prevalent in warmer ocean waters help break down the crude.

"What we learned is that tropical environments have a better chance to recover equilibrium," Soto said, adding that he believes the Campeche Sound was largely back to normal "perhaps in a year and a half."

Crude oil does contain toxic compounds, known as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which aren't easily absorbed by bacteria. Scientists are still studying whether bacteria can be cultivated to break down them down.

"Fortunately, they don't bio-magnify in species as they go up the food chain. They seem to just get passed through and dropped out," Tunnell said.

Colwell, nonetheless, warned of eating shrimp harvested in the immediate area of an oil spill: "If you are eating shrimp during the current season or next season, I wouldn't recommend it."

Lizarraga, who works at the Center for Scientific Research and Higher Studies of Ensenada, on the Baja California peninsula, criticized the heavy use of chemical dispersants to break up the oil gushing from the BP spill into droplets, saying it isn't yet clear how the dispersants will affect the oil-degrading microorganisms.

In the Ixtoc 1 spill, "not so many dispersants were used," he said, allowing natural processes to take their course.

Some fundamental questions remain about the volumes of oil that microorganisms can break down in an oil spill. Tunnell said long-term comprehensive studies are rarely carried out after workers finish mopping up crude oil coating beaches.

"When its cleaned up, the studies stop," he said. "There's a lot that we don't have the real answers to."
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Bogie

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2010, 12:14:54 AM »
Really, the dome thing shouldn't be that hard...
 
Big dome. Big hole coming out the top, into fitting that can hold a big pipe...
 
Now, can you suck 60,000 psi of water through that sucker? PSI? how much of a cross-section? If not, you need more pumps.
 
Drop the cylinder. Weight it. Drop the top. With the top open. Idea: two valves... One to the -60,000 psi vacuum sucker pipe (that goes to Mr. Tanker...), and the other that is just flat huge and open... Get it cinched down, with Mr. Tanker doing his thing, and then start to close the "open to the sea" valve.
 
On time, under budget.
 
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2010, 01:58:45 AM »
Really, the dome thing shouldn't be that hard...
 
Big dome. Big hole coming out the top, into fitting that can hold a big pipe...
 
Now, can you suck 60,000 psi of water through that sucker? PSI? how much of a cross-section? If not, you need more pumps.
 
Drop the cylinder. Weight it. Drop the top. With the top open. Idea: two valves... One to the -60,000 psi vacuum sucker pipe (that goes to Mr. Tanker...), and the other that is just flat huge and open... Get it cinched down, with Mr. Tanker doing his thing, and then start to close the "open to the sea" valve.
 
On time, under budget.
 


Except the water pressure at 5000' below sea level compresses the methane gasses into crystallized methane hydrate.

Without control of the water pressure surrounding the pump, you still get essentially methane ice that clogs up the pipe.  You have to decrease the water pressure immediately surrounding the leak.  The dome itself doesn't do that.  It has to be built to contain a positive pressure differential from the outside sea water environment, such that the methane crystals no longer form from pressure.

Pressure increases by 1 atmosphere every 33 feet underwater you go.  At 100 feet, you are at 4 air atmospheres of pressure.

This depth is 150 atmospheres.  Air pressure at sea level is about 15psi.  Crushing pressure of the ocean at 5000 feet is therefore about 2250 PSI.

Such a concrete dome has to withstand 2250 crushing PSI, then withstand the blast of 60,000 PSI inside and vent it appropriately while otherwise settling/sealing to the ocean bed, then support some sort of positive pressure mitigation sufficient to eliminate the methane crystallization due to the 2250 PSI crushing ocean pressure, and withstand the pressure differential between inside/outside ocean water, then have a valve to cut off the 60,000 PSI vent and start sucking up oil... while maintaining a positive pressure differential with the 2250 PSI external pressure that causes crystallization.

And be able to be suspended by a 5000 foot cable from a ship without snapping.

That's some serious engineering.
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Azrael256

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2010, 12:03:18 PM »
The water pressure is actually the least of the enginering challenges.  2500psi of water is nothing compared to the pressure from the well itself.

Also, there is no "seafloor" down there.  This is not a clean hole drilled in a granite countertop.  The actual drilled hole starts about 1000' below the top of the well.  The first 1000 feet of the "seafloor" is a layer of sediment that's something like cheesecake.  Dropping a giant cube of dense material would crush the pipe running through this layer and cause a leak below the surface that  would just find it's own way out.  That's why sinking a tanker full of concrete won't fix it.

Head over to theoildrum.com for some commentary by folks with detailed knowledge of undersea drilling.

Bogie

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2010, 12:11:41 PM »
Quote
That's some serious engineering.

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280plus

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2010, 02:40:18 PM »
America, *expletive deleted*ck yea:cool:
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vaskidmark

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2010, 02:51:04 PM »
There are reports that the hole has been plugged.

But then The Obama said in comments being reported early today by NPR (really, I just tune it in for the classical music [tinfoil]) that the stuff is still leaking at "a tremendous rate."  [I understood that to be faster than he is spending the money the Treasury cannot print fast enough to keep up with him.]

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2010, 03:50:03 PM »
Last I heard, all that was coming out of the hole was mud, and not oil.  That's a decent sign, but hey.

I still dunno why we just don't light a 15-30kt nuke under the sea.  I'm sure whatever fallout would be will kill less sealife than whatever the oil has already done.

I also have no idea how a small atomic detonation would affect the water and coastline nearby, that could be another thing.  It can't be any worse than what the oil has already done, though.
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Bogie

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2010, 05:15:02 PM »
Idea: We make a ten ton thermite bomb, steer it on top of the thing, and let 'er rip? Put a buncha scrap iron on top of it...
 
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2010, 05:41:15 PM »
Idea: We make a ten ton thermite bomb, steer it on top of the thing, and let 'er rip? Put a buncha scrap iron on top of it...
 


thermite = magnesium.

magnesium = burns in contact with water.

The second you put the thermite into the water, and long before it gets to 5000 feet depth, it will ignite.

Then you will have no thermite.  And no plug.

But, good idea if the liquid were other than H2O.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2010, 05:45:51 PM »
magnesium = burns in contact with water.  ?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Regolith

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2010, 06:03:08 PM »
thermite = magnesium.

magnesium = burns in contact with water.

The second you put the thermite into the water, and long before it gets to 5000 feet depth, it will ignite.

Then you will have no thermite.  And no plug.

But, good idea if the liquid were other than H2O.

Uh....I think your thinking about potassium, sodium or lithium. 

Magnesium does not burn on contact with water. It will burn IN water once ignited, which is why it's useful in a survival kit, but it won't burn on CONTACT with water.


Edit:  just did some research.  It will burn, but it's very, very slow, and since magnesium usually has a non-reactive oxidized coating, it will only do so if the layer is removed.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 06:08:15 PM by Regolith »
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Azrael256

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2010, 07:28:43 PM »
Quote
Idea: We make a ten ton thermite bomb, steer it on top of the thing, and let 'er rip? Put a buncha scrap iron on top of it...
 

Melt the riser pipe into the semi-fluid sand and then have the flow blow it off...  We could just shear the whole thing off at the seabed and let it gush unabated.  It would be faster.

Ten tons of thermite would float like a balloon over a 10,000psi gusher unless it had a cross section of less than two inches presented to the flow.  You need just this side of three million pounds if you're going to drop an object on top of it and not have it blown off.  And then there's the problem of crushing the top 1000' of drill pipe when you do it.

This isn't so simple.

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2010, 08:48:30 PM »
3 million pounds, hmmm. Ok, now we need a really big rock.  =)
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Bogie

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2010, 08:56:05 PM »
I once saw this movie with an asteroid...
 
(seriously, tho, wouldn't it be kinda kewl if an interwebz bs session came up with an idea that would work?)
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Azrael256

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #69 on: May 28, 2010, 09:54:02 PM »
I actually came up with a good idea that would plug it, but there are some practical problems.

What we need is to design and build a stellar scoop and a faster-than-light drive.  A plug of neutron star material, at the required 18" diameter, would only need to be a few microns thick to provide more than enough pressure to plug the well, the volcano in Iceland, and Joe Biden at the same time.

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2010, 02:10:04 AM »
I once saw this movie with an asteroid...

That's it!  We just shove enough nukes down the hole to blow the planet into small pieces!  No containment, no pressure; no pressure, no leak.

eyebrows

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2010, 08:45:23 AM »
Quote
thermite = magnesium.

magnesium = burns in contact with water.

The second you put the thermite into the water, and long before it gets to 5000 feet depth, it will ignite.

Then you will have no thermite.  And no plug.

But, good idea if the liquid were other than H2O.

Magnesium is a common ignition source for thermite but is by no means required for the reaction. There are many different types of thermite that are not reactive to water.
Besides its not like you would just dump it over the side of the boat, you would have it in some sort of container to help control the reaction of the thermite.

I ain't no engineer but why don't they take a threaded cone(much like a step bit) attached to a rigid shaft and thread it down inside the well shaft. They know the diameter of the well so if the bit grew to only slightly bigger than the diameter of the well it shouldn't stress the pipe to much and still be able to lock itself in place with the threads. The bit could have ports that could be opened to relieve the pressures while inserting the bit and closed to block the flow once the bit is inserted. Would require removing the riser from the BOP or the BOP from the wellhead.

lupinus

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2010, 09:05:58 AM »
You're talking about a specially designed bit that would probably take a couple of months to design and machine.

You are then talking about threading a needle, btw with thread bigger then the eye, from a mile away. Oh yeah, and with several thousand PSI of force pushing against it to wiggle it around and currents to push it around.
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eyebrows

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2010, 09:58:59 AM »
You're talking about a specially designed bit that would probably take a couple of months to design and machine.

You are then talking about threading a needle, btw with thread bigger then the eye, from a mile away. Oh yeah, and with several thousand PSI of force pushing against it to wiggle it around and currents to push it around.

You could rig a support structure on the sea floor that holds a hydraulic drive system over the well. Then the boat at the surface simply powers the drive system. That way you oonly have to deal with the distance from the drive system to the well and you would get better leverage on fighting the pressure. Would not be easy and you're right it would take awhile to prove the concept and design the stuff.

Another idea. Why don't they inject the BOP with all the human hair they have collect and decided not to use in the booms. Might clog it better than golfballs.

dogmush

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Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2010, 10:03:06 AM »
You could rig a support structure on the sea floor that holds a hydraulic drive system over the well.

The seafloor is 1000' of very watery mud.  Won't support any weight.