Author Topic: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...  (Read 31160 times)

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2010, 03:33:52 PM »
Why doesn't the .gov just print up $700 Trillion and dump it right on top of the well?

That should fix it.

jim
There we go, the perfect plan!  :lol:
Avoid cliches like the plague!

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2010, 03:37:23 PM »
How about blowing up a 15kt nuke on top of it?

Soviets did just that.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2010, 03:40:19 PM »
I'm beginning to like the Soviets, they don't screw around. ;)


Once again the answer is found in music... Kind of safe for work except it's from when KISS took their masks off and nobody knew who they were.  [barf]  :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGpBRyXapuA
Avoid cliches like the plague!

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2010, 04:22:16 PM »
Gene Simmons is a whole lot more forbidding without makeup that with it.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2010, 04:25:18 PM »
Right?  :lol:

Maybe he could just head down there and stick his tongue in it.  :O
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Mabs2

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,979
  • セクシー
    • iCarly
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2010, 04:58:45 PM »
That's the problem:   British Petroleum.  


 :angel: =D
Convince the oil that it's acting too much like American oil.  Then it'll furiously attempt to be different in every way possible.
Quote from: jamisjockey
Sunday it felt a little better, but it was quite irritated from me rubbing it.
Quote from: Mike Irwin
If you watch any of the really early episodes of the Porter Waggoner show she was in (1967) it's very clear that he was well endowed.
Quote from: Ben
Just wanted to give a forum thumbs up to Dick.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2010, 05:09:34 PM »
Convince the oil that it's acting too much like American oil.  Then it'll furiously attempt to be different in every way possible.

There is a good joke about UK elites, France, Cajuns, the EU, and the English channel in there, somewhere.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Gowen

  • Metal smith
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,074
    • Gemoriah.com
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2010, 05:28:22 PM »
That's the problem:   British Petroleum.  


 :angel: =D

I guess they are making up for that tea incident. :cool:
"That's my hat, I'm the leader!" Napoleon the Bloodhound


Gemoriah.com

Jimmy Dean

  • friend
  • New Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2010, 05:34:00 PM »
actually, I do have an idea that would probably work, however, they are not accepting outside ideas, even from engineers.....

to get an idea....think of a bunsen burner and it's air flow control...

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2010, 06:05:45 PM »
no, my idea is the best so there is no need to entertain others. You'll just have to be quicker next time.  :P

Avoid cliches like the plague!

Leatherneck

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,028
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2010, 06:06:49 PM »
Plan A: Insert a semi-rigid tube slightly smaller than the leaker, and wrapped in an inflatable bladder for a few hundred feet. Attach said tube to the surface container and figure out how to pressurize the bladder over its entire length. When you allow the oil and gas mixture to rise, the bladder can seal the pipe with no danger of further blowout in the riser under the seabed.

Plan B: drill a conventional hole next to the leaker and send down however much dynamite the engineers figure is needed to collapse the whole friggin thing.

Plan C: Tell the North Koreans they're welcome to all the oil they can salvage.

See? Easy-peasy!  =D

TC
TC
RT Refugee

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2010, 07:31:52 PM »
How long did it take to plan, design, build, and install the well in the first place?  A decade or more?

And they think we're going to be able to come up with a solution and implement it in just a few days?

The kind of engineering involved in a project like this is staggering.  This would be a tricky enough problem if it were on the surface, where we could reach it easily.  How long did it take us to put out all of Saddam's burning oil wells in Kuwait?  A coupla years?  

Add in the whole mile under the ocean part, the huge pressure bit, the freezing gasses, the mangled wreckage and debris from the explosion and failure of the rig, and, oh yeah, that mile under the ocean thing, and it's just not a problem that's going to be solved easily or quickly.  I'll be impressed with BP if they get the thing shut off within a year.

Why on earth are we drilling for oil 65 miles off shore and a mile down, when there's plenty of oil near the shore and on land that we could use instead?!

 =|
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 07:35:56 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

MicroBalrog

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,505
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2010, 07:34:07 PM »
Quote
And they think we're going to be able to come up with a solution and implement it in just a few days?

The soviets did.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2010, 07:35:43 PM »
I don't think nukes are an option in the BP toolbox.

vaskidmark

  • National Anthem Snob
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,799
  • WTF?
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2010, 07:37:45 PM »
The one thing I have not heard yet, with all the wailing and teeth-gnashing going on, is how slow the gooberment has been to do anything.

Yes, I know there is absolutely nothing the gooberment could do, with the possibility of throwing FEMA traiulers overboard in hopes of hitting a 5,000-foot "swish" goal that miraculously caps the sucker.

But all the "dem-Libs" that demamded that the goobermint under Bush "do something" every time Momma Gia had a hissy fit are astoundingly quiet now that the gooberment is the other party.

What gives?  (rhetorical question, for the most part.)

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2010, 07:40:11 PM »
By Tim Johnson | McClatchy Newspapers

MEXICO CITY — The Ixtoc 1 oil spill in Mexico's shallow Campeche Sound three decades ago serves as a distant mirror to today's BP deepwater blowout, and marine scientists are still pondering what they learned from its aftereffects.

In terms of blowouts, Ixtoc 1 was a monster — until the ongoing BP leak, the largest accidental spill in history. Some 3.3 million barrels of oil gushed over nearly 10 months, spreading an oil slick as far north as Texas, where gooey tar balls washed up on beaches.

Surprisingly, Mexican scientists say that Campeche Sound itself recovered rather quickly, and a sizable shrimp industry returned to normal within two years.

Luis A. Soto, a deep-sea biologist, had earned his doctorate from the University of Miami a year before the June 3, 1979, blowout of Ixtoc 1 in 160 feet of water in the Campeche Sound, the shallow, oil-rich continental shelf off the Yucatan Peninsula.

Soto and other Mexican marine scientists feared the worst when they examined sea life in the sound once oil workers finally capped the blowout in March 1980.

"To be honest, because of our ignorance, we thought everything was going to die," Soto said.

The scientists didn't know what effects the warm temperatures of gulf waters, intense solar radiation, and other factors from the tropical ecosystem would have on the crude oil polluting the sound.

There were political implications as well; the spill pitted a furious shrimping industry, reliant on the nutrient-rich Campeche Sound, against a powerful state oil company betting its future in offshore drilling, particularly the continental shelf in the Gulf of Mexico it began developing in the late 1970s.

In the months after Ixtoc 1 was capped, scientists trawled the waters of the sound for signs of biological distress.

"I found shrimp with tumor formations in the tissue, and crabs without the pincers. These were very serious effects," Soto said.

Another Mexican marine biologist, Leonardo Lizarraga Partida, said the evaluation team began measuring oil content in the sediment, evaluating microorganisms in the water and checking on the biomass of shrimp species.

As the studies extended into a second year, scientists noticed how fast the marine environment recovered, helped by naturally occurring microbes that feasted on the oil and degraded it.

Perhaps due to those microbes, Tunnell found that aquatic life along the shoreline in Texas had returned to normal within three years — even as tar balls and tar mats remained along the beaches, sometimes covered by sand.

"We were really surprised," Lizarraga said. "After two years, the conditions were really almost normal."

The Gulf currents and conditions of the Ixtoc 1 spill helped. Unlike the BP blowout, which has spewed at least 5,000 barrels of oil a day, and perhaps many times that, at depths near 5,000 feet, the Ixtoc 1 oil gushed right to the surface, and currents slowly took the crude north as far as Texas, killing turtles, sea birds and other sea life.

"I measured 80 percent reduction in all combined species that were living in the intertidal zone," said Wes Tunnell, a marine biologist at the Harte Research Institute of Gulf of Mexico Studies at Texas A&M University in Corpus Christi.

While that was severe, Tunnell noted that natural oil that seeps from the seabed releases the equivalent of one to two supertankers of crude in the Gulf of Mexico each year.

"It's what I call a chronic spill," Tunnell said. "The good side of having all that seepage out there is that we've got a huge population of microbes, bacteria that feed on petroleum products in the water and on shore. So that helps the recovery time."

An expert on the biodegradation of petroleum, Rita R. Colwell, who holds posts both at the University of Maryland and Johns Hopkins University, said microorganisms are good at breaking down the short chain molecular compounds in crude.

"For the bacteria, they really chew it and release it as CO2," Colwell said. "The longer stuff that has long ring compounds, that's the stuff that remains."

A bloom in oil-consuming microorganisms turned out to be a boon to shrimp in the Campeche Sound, to the relief of the crews on the 650 shrimp boats that trawled in the sound back then.

"The shrimp fed on the bacteria. When you are making the chemical analysis of the shrimp, you obtain the fingerprint," Soto said, adding that petroleum compounds contain unique chemistry just as flora and fauna contain unique genes.

Just as a human body rallies its defenses to fight off invasive germs, Soto said, the microorganisms prevalent in warmer ocean waters help break down the crude.

"What we learned is that tropical environments have a better chance to recover equilibrium," Soto said, adding that he believes the Campeche Sound was largely back to normal "perhaps in a year and a half."

Crude oil does contain toxic compounds, known as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, which aren't easily absorbed by bacteria. Scientists are still studying whether bacteria can be cultivated to break down them down.

"Fortunately, they don't bio-magnify in species as they go up the food chain. They seem to just get passed through and dropped out," Tunnell said.

Colwell, nonetheless, warned of eating shrimp harvested in the immediate area of an oil spill: "If you are eating shrimp during the current season or next season, I wouldn't recommend it."

Lizarraga, who works at the Center for Scientific Research and Higher Studies of Ensenada, on the Baja California peninsula, criticized the heavy use of chemical dispersants to break up the oil gushing from the BP spill into droplets, saying it isn't yet clear how the dispersants will affect the oil-degrading microorganisms.

In the Ixtoc 1 spill, "not so many dispersants were used," he said, allowing natural processes to take their course.

Some fundamental questions remain about the volumes of oil that microorganisms can break down in an oil spill. Tunnell said long-term comprehensive studies are rarely carried out after workers finish mopping up crude oil coating beaches.

"When its cleaned up, the studies stop," he said. "There's a lot that we don't have the real answers to."
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #41 on: May 25, 2010, 07:45:14 PM »
The one thing I have not heard yet, with all the wailing and teeth-gnashing going on, is how slow the gooberment has been to do anything.

Yes, I know there is absolutely nothing the gooberment could do, with the possibility of throwing FEMA traiulers overboard in hopes of hitting a 5,000-foot "swish" goal that miraculously caps the sucker.

But all the "dem-Libs" that demamded that the goobermint under Bush "do something" every time Momma Gia had a hissy fit are astoundingly quiet now that the gooberment is the other party.

What gives?  (rhetorical question, for the most part.)

stay safe.
They got the explosives to seal that bad boy up tighter then a ducks rear end?

Seriously. Send a couple subs and torpedo the thing. Yes I realize that's likely an over simplification, but I'm sure the military would be more then happy to rig something up that can get to the right depth and explode with enough force to collapse the well.

And agree, had Bush been in the WH when this happened they'd be all over his ass about not doing anything.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

geronimotwo

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,796
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2010, 08:00:56 PM »
actually, I do have an idea that would probably work, however, they are not accepting outside ideas, even from engineers.....


but thier pr people do have a great web form to make people believe they're listening!

http://www.horizonedocs.com:80/artform.php

make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

Bogie

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,261
  • Hunkered in South St. Louis, right by Route 66
    • Third Rate Pundit
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2010, 10:47:48 PM »
Hmmm... Another idea... Pump a lot of high pressure air down to the area, and strike a match... Heck, add a little O2 and acetylene while you're at it...
 
Blog under construction

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2010, 06:52:48 AM »
You forgot the det cord and duct tape.
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2010, 09:00:13 PM »
Use the detcord to set off the Soviet nukes.

 :P

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2010, 10:56:37 PM »
Just get a whole bunch of people to chew up some bubble gum, and then stuff it down the pipe  :P
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,936
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2010, 09:28:05 AM »
RTV Silicone cement, duct tape, and WD-40 will solve any mechanical problem.

Between these three items, I have saved 23,842 man-hours over my lifetime.
WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

AZRedhawk44

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,987
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2010, 10:18:17 AM »
Idea:

Given the following two factors:
-This well is at 5000 feet below sea level.  Water pressure is enormous.
-This well is a high pressure leak.  Back pressure is enormous.
-The "dome" that was put in place allowed water pressure to still cyrstalize the methane gas, meaning it did not use positive pressure to its own best interests.

Re-do the dome.  But:
-Make it heavier.  Put 20,000 pounds more cement into its base.  Make it sink into the mud REAL good.
-Make it air/water-tight.  Except for the pipe to pump the crude up, of course.
-Run a 5000 foot air hose to it, capable of exceeding the PSI strength of the crush pressure of the ocean.  Run a positive air feed into there.
-Lower the acting pressure inside the dome so that the methane hydrate no longer crystalizes.
-Suck the oil up.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

makattak

  • Dark Lord of the Cis
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,022
Re: Now, I'm no oil-well drilling engineer...
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2010, 10:35:07 AM »
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought