Author Topic: this is gonna rufffle some feathers  (Read 20827 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2010, 06:31:04 AM »
yet when the people who live and work on the border report their experience all you care about are stats and whatever ultra-lib race-baiting op-ed "journalism" supports your claim?

you dismissing what border town (nogales) police chiefs say as race baiting op eds?  and even brewer is backing off on her mis speak  trying to put it off in the same file as her dad died fighting nazi's.

then there is this
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/Mike1633/79336


and not to leave mc cain out

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/scarborough-and-shadegg-bust-gut-after-wat
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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makattak

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I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Balog

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2010, 12:32:29 PM »
CSD: I note you only attempt to address one point. Shall we assume you concede the rest?

As for your "rebuttal" 1. the OP is race baiting OP-Ed 2. police chiefs and sheriffs are poli-critters just as much as Brewer et al 3. I note you don't mention the border sheriffs who don't agree with your position. Convenient, that.
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longeyes

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2010, 01:24:40 PM »
No, there's no threat from the drug cartels, just more overheated white racist conservative imaginings.  Okay, that's good news, I'll sleep better tonight.

And so will MS-13.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2010, 02:05:27 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/04/29/arizona.immigration.crime/index.html

(CNN) -- High levels of illegal immigration and crimes committed by unauthorized immigrants are among the key rationales cited by some supporters of a tough new immigration law in Arizona.

"Border violence and crime due to illegal immigration are critically important issues to the people of our state," Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer said at the signing of the controversial bill, SB 1070. "There is no higher priority than protecting the citizens of Arizona. We cannot sacrifice our safety to the murderous greed of the drug cartels. We cannot stand idly by as drop houses, kidnappings and violence compromise our quality of life."

Yet, a look at statistics from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency and the FBI indicate that both the number of illegal crossers and violent crime in general have actually decreased in the past several years.

According to FBI statistics, violent crimes reported in Arizona dropped by nearly 1,500 reported incidents between 2005 and 2008. Reported property crimes also fell, from about 287,000 reported incidents to 279,000 in the same period. These decreases are accentuated by the fact that Arizona's population grew by 600,000 between 2005 and 2008.

According to the nonpartisan Immigration Policy Institute, proponents of the bill "overlook two salient points: Crime rates have already been falling in Arizona for years despite the presence of unauthorized immigrants, and a century's worth of research has demonstrated that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born."

Backers of the bill maintain that crime is a key reason for the necessity of the tough immigration law.

Arizona state Sen. Russell Pearce this week told CNN's Tony Harris that half the murders in Phoenix are committed by unauthorized immigrants and that the city is the second in the world in kidnappings.

A CNN Fact Check found that the senator's claim about the murders in Phoenix cannot be proven, but he did have police statistics to back up his claims of the city's high number of kidnappings, although its exact standing in the world is not clear.
Video: Sheriff: New law will curb immigration
Video: Police on both sides of new Arizona law
RELATED TOPICS

    * Arizona
    * U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    * Crime Statistics
    * Illegal Immigration and Deportation
    * Federal Bureau of Investigation

In Maricopa County, which includes Phoenix, Sheriff Joe Arpaio has long been an advocate of tough measures against illegal immigration. His officers already check the immigration status of people they detain for other crimes, he said.

"We've been doing it for a long time, but this [law] gives us just a little more authority," Arpaio told CNN.

One way that Arpaio says he measures his success is that he hears that immigrants who entered the country illegally are leaving his county.

"It's a good indicator," he said.

Statewide illegal immigration trends are harder to gauge.

One aspect of it is the number of apprehensions of unauthorized immigrants made by the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency. Since a peak in 2000 of more than 600,000 illegal crossers apprehended, the number fell to 241,000 in 2009, Tucson Sector Public Affairs Officer Mario Escalante told CNN.

"We've seen a steady decline," he said.

Intelligence-driven operations have increased the effectiveness of the Border Patrol's efforts, he added.

Meanwhile, the cartel violence that has gripped Mexico for the most part has remained there, he said.

Human and drug smugglers are being "more aggressive because we're being successful," Escalante said, "But we've been lucky not to see that type of [violence] spill over here."
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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makattak

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2010, 02:09:50 PM »
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2010, 02:19:53 PM »
Quit butting your heads against a brick wall.
“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

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Balog

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2010, 02:22:39 PM »
He's a good guy overal, but this and cop threads are a "quit feeding the troll" situation.
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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

makattak

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2010, 02:29:27 PM »
He's a good guy overal, but this and cop threads are a "quit feeding the troll" situation.

Meh. He's as likely to change my mind as I am his.

I'd like as much information and perspective out there for others to be informed.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2010, 02:29:40 PM »
3. Care to answer why when cops in DC (or Maryland, I forget which) ghettos were doing illegal things in the name of "public safety" all you cared about was some vague anecdote about kids having to sleep in bath tubs because of all the shootings and you touted your own experience as the only valid argument; yet when the people who live and work on the border report their experience all you care about are stats and whatever ultra-lib race-baiting op-ed "journalism" supports your claim? Why is that? Oh, because you talk out of both sides of your mouth just like those poli-critters you talk such trash on.

  i don't think my experience is the only valid argument it just happened to be the only one i had.

and i do listen to what folks on the border say i also notice some of the more virulent folks aren't near any border.  its an unfortunate side effect of this kinda issue folks are drawn to it for a variety of reason some very good some ugly.  much like those folks in the minute men who were self sacrificng and sincere got betrayed this cause has great potential for even worse.  when i see admitted nazis organizing armed patrols with the tacit cooperation of local law enforcement it raises big red flags for me.  
 my experiences in the great state of texas lead me to believe that todays new term "immigrant lover" has replaced "*let's not go there* lover" as we usher in a new proud epoch in our history. i found that while the vast majority of folks in texas were great  there was a not insignificant number who were down right hostile at first meet.  a number of those folks changed remarkably when they found out i was japanese and irish and to quote one "not another damn mojado!"
i will admit those experiences do color my thinking.  in much the same way the no indians signs and attitudes a lil furthur north when i hitch hiked cross country left an impression.

 its kinda funny on a couple occasions folks would say "oh  your japanese and irish? and get all happy  .
now as noterd i aknowledge racism my own for sure and that that i think lurks in most adults at some level so these folks are allowed to be as trifling as they wanna be so long as they comply with the law.  and strangely from me about the law? hitching through texas we got pulled over and i remember the cop crossing the line with the young black marine that i was riding with "boy  this is texas you ain't got no rights!"
couple that with a history of judicial peculiarites rivaled only by my home state of va  it does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling for how things are gonna play out.  and in these things the old african proverb  "When elephants fight only the grass suffers" comes to my mind
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2010, 02:36:14 PM »
Meh. He's as likely to change my mind as I am his.

I'd like as much information and perspective out there for others to be informed.

me too and i had a sorta "come to jesus " moment a few months back when i got followed/chased by two carloads of latinos over a perceived slight on the road. i was fortunate that 6 0n 1 turned into 7 on 6 with some real beefy boys packing heat as part of the 7 and no one got hurt. my racist side reared its pointy lil head some and then when a couple months later the cops raided a ms 13 hangout a couple miles from here it gave me the chills. there is definitely a problem that needs fixing but be  careful the cure isn't fatal.  and to me anytime i'm hanging with nazis and the like one of us is in the wrong place and that needs to change.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2010, 02:53:14 PM »
and in a perverse role reversal can anyone come up with a reason the shot cop woulda acted the way he did other than the assesment offered by the detective at the end?
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Balog

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bRe: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2010, 05:36:13 PM »
I heard some skinheads joined the NRA. Obviously a racist .org there. :rolleyes:
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2010, 05:51:13 PM »
readys got a support group

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t718755-26/   start at the first page of the thread its interesting reading and the star makes an appearance
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2010, 11:17:50 PM »
Reading this thread, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Does anyone actually care if Jan Brewer is making s&$# up tp sell her/our policies?  This is the kid of crap, if true, that the left does.  Shouldn't we hold "our guys" to a higher standard?  Shouldn't we be able to sell our policies honestly, without having to resort to this kind behavior?  And if we can't/won't, what does that mean?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 11:25:31 PM by Headless Thompson Gunner »

Perd Hapley

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2010, 11:26:10 PM »
Does anyone actually care if Jan Brewer is making s&$# up tp sell her/our policies?  This is the kid of crap, if true, that the left does.  Shouldn't we hold "our guys" to a higher standard?  Shouldn't we be able to sell our policies honestly, without having to resort to this kind behavior.

Indeed "we" can sell our policies without misinformation.  As matter of fact, the policy is quite a bargain with or without the crime statistics put forth by some. 

Of course you are correct that the left engages in a lot of "crap."  Apparently so does our resident apologist for illegal migration. Then he pretends he wants to talk facts.  Um, yeah, OK.   ;/
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MicroBalrog

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2010, 01:49:45 AM »
Reading this thread, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Does anyone actually care if Jan Brewer is making s&$# up tp sell her/our policies?  This is the kid of crap, if true, that the left does.  Shouldn't we hold "our guys" to a higher standard?  Shouldn't we be able to sell our policies honestly, without having to resort to this kind behavior?  And if we can't/won't, what does that mean?

Uh, I for one do care. Have you noticed my posts above?
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2010, 11:10:13 AM »
Uh, I for one do care. Have you noticed my posts above?
Yes, I have.  You and mak seem to be the only ones interested in the facts of the matter. 

Indeed "we" can sell our policies without misinformation.  As matter of fact, the policy is quite a bargain with or without the crime statistics put forth by some. 

Of course you are correct that the left engages in a lot of "crap."  Apparently so does our resident apologist for illegal migration. Then he pretends he wants to talk facts.  Um, yeah, OK.   ;/
Look, fisty, I respect you and your opinions.  That's why it startled me to see you engaging in this "crap" yourself.  You seem to want to stick you head in the sand regarding the allegations that Brewer is making up the facts as she goes.  You just wanted to write off her potential misinformation as no big deal, to dismiss it because of biases and agendas from those presenting the info.

Rather than focus on the supposed biases and agendas of the authors and APS members, focus on the facts.  It should be an easy matter to verify or refute Brewer's beheading claims.  Despite any agenda on the part of the authors, the author did take an honest stab and getting to the facts.  And the facts don't look pretty for Brewer and us.  If there really were beheadings, someone in officialdom (coroners, po-po, border service agents, someone) would have taken notice and been able to document it.

The crime stats thing is a bit trickier, given the complexity of the numbers and the need to draw inferences and interpretations, but to dismiss that stuff as biased because you don't like the source, without even trying to look at the numbers, just ain't cool.

Jamisjockey

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Re: this is gonna rufffle some feathers
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2010, 05:02:04 PM »
Indeed.  This has gone way past the validity of Jan Brewers statements.  Once again, a politics thread gets out of hand.  Sigh.
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