Giant stick mags

[AZRedhawk44]

The evil 33rd Glock stick mag is being blamed for murder.

Should we:

1.  Care at all?  Is the political climate likely to result in a ban of rounds greater than "X" rounds?
2.  If "X" rounds are found to be evil, is the number likely to be 10? 15? 20? or Stick mags greater than 170mm?
3.  I've been wanting XD long mag body magazines.  The IPSC/USPSA ones that hold about 25 rounds or so.  I don't care if the ProMag craptastic ones get taken off the market, but I have a hint of worry for the quality ones for pistol run-n-gun competitions.  I'd like a set for my XD, as well as for my CZ-75.  Buy now?  Wait to see legislation (if any)?
4.  Implement plausible deniability (relocate/hide/bury) for our current standard capacity normal magazines, or a small subset of them?


Sounds like Giffords is alive because she was shot in the head by a 9mm (and then had the holes plugged by a fast-acting pair of hands and a butcher's apron from the grocery store) rather than a 40 or 45. 

I'm not trying to open the 9/45 debate for lethality in this case, but the capacity/power debate comes into play in the context of magazine size bans.  This guy chose max rounds, and it may be that there are more injured and less killed as a result of that (and probably used FMJ rather than JHP since filling multiple 33rd mags with JHP is damned expensive).

I carry a 9mm.

But I doubt Congresswoman Giffords would be alive if shot in the head with a 45acp.

Mag restrictions make EVERYONE look at either:
-more concealable guns, or
-greater power per trigger squeeze in a service-sized handgun.

The 1994 AWB taught us that.

The "service nine" came back into public demand after the AWB sunset.  Prior to that, the '94 AWB brought new prominence to the old 1911 platform.

[Ben]

The "service nine" came back into public demand after the AWB sunset.  Prior to that, the '94 AWB brought new prominence to the old 1911 platform.

I believe that's when very compact .45s also became more popular.

My guess is that if they go to a capacity ban, they'll go for ten again. What I'm really interested in / afraid of is what they'll come up with if they attempt an ammo stockpiling ban. What's a stockpile?

[AJ Dual]

Most of the arsenal laws and stockpile laws are just so unworkable it dies every time.

The one saving grace even during the worst part of the '94 AWB is that functionally, (despite complaining later about using the "loopholes) we never lost any functionality, and the normal-capacity magazine supply was such that we were never in danger of not having them for anyone who REALLY wanted to have them.

Even during the last years of the ban, AR and AK and Glock mags could be had. It was onerous, but not impossible to get them.

This is ALL from the fact that the most anti-gun legislators who come up with these bills know nothing about firearms in general.

Carolyn is the infamous "Shoulder thing that goes up?" member of Congress as it is.

[red headed stranger]

What I'm really interested in / afraid of is what they'll come up with if they attempt an ammo stockpiling ban. What's a stockpile?

Yeah. there are so many ways that that could go really wrong.  It would almost definitely become a backdoor registration scheme, since you have to keep track of how much people are buying.  What is really odd, is they keep on talking about his "stockpile", yet as far as i can tell they are only referring to the multiple loaded mags he had on his person as a "stockpile."

I hope they come up with a really ridiculous low number for what constitutes a stockpile, so that the law can be laughed out of committee.  

[Fly320s]

1.  If you want those mags, buy them now. This incident may not lead to a ban, but the next one might. A bird in the hand...

2.  The congressman is alive because of shot placement and luck, not caliber. The bullet passed through the upper portion of her brain, not the lower portion where the main body-control functions are located.

[mtnbkr]

1.  If you want those mags, buy them now. This incident may not lead to a ban, but the next one might. A bird in the hand...

And possibly add handloading and maybe even casting to your repertoire.  Don't tell me you can't load because you live in an apartment, that's where I got started (Lee turret mounted to board that I c-clamped to my computer desk). 

Chris

[Ben]

Most of the arsenal laws and stockpile laws are just so unworkable it dies every time.

This will be a time to keep eyes on the new CA handgun ammo law set to take effect in FEB. Thumbprint and record for all handgun ammo purchased. The final lawsuits (for now) get ruled on in a couple of weeks, but if it goes through, the tracking method could be the groundwork for monitoring "stockpiles".

Not that there aren't a dozen ways around it, but the getting caught would suck.

The problem is that your average citizen probably thinks 100-200 rounds of ammo is a lot. When I'm good about going to the range, I go through at least double that in a month. Even 2000 rounds is a pretty low stock of ammo for someone that shoots on a regular basis.

I agree that when you look at it, any sane person can see that it's unworkable, but it's not like Congress is overflowing with sanity.

[grampster]

Has it occurred to anyone else that when you listen to the drivel promulgated by lawmakers regarding any type of legislation geared to "control" things it's like they think that we live in a village of a couple hundred people, not a nation of 300+ million people?  One more reason to believe that "Liberalism is a mental disease."

[lee n. field]

Hard to say, right now, how it will all play out.  

Some of us say, "we're winning".  We will not have won, until folks like Rep. Carolyn "shoulder thing that goes up" McCarthy and her ilk are viewed with the same general distaste as we would have for racist peckerwoods from the bad old segregationist South.

Most of my gun related purchasing, since GWB's second midterm election, has been based on the assumption that we'll be facing some problems.  I've been trying to get away from oddball stuff, into standard chamberings, and into guns I can get parts for.  Bullet casting, and more handloading bits.  Buy more ammo than I shoot.

I'm not where I want to be.  We gunnies never quite are.  And,  there's always that pesky money thing.  But I'm in a fair bit better shape than I was 4 years ago.

I think I'll rustle up some more AK magazines soon.  They're cheap.

[BridgeRunner]

Hasn't the evil Glock 33 round mag now been used in several shootings?  Seems like Glock would stop selling them just because it seems in bad taste to keep doing so.  The one guy I know who owns one got it solely because it was so evil it's cool. 

I don't think much of mag size enforced by law, but I do think that it's more than a little grotesque to keep making and selling an object that seems to have become a symbol of mass murder.  I mean, Zyklon B may be really good at killing bugs, but I'd still rather not use it, or see it on store shelves. 

Yeah, so, I just Godwin-ed Glock.  I didn't do it on purpose, it was just the first analogy I thought of. 

[Nick1911]

Hasn't the evil Glock 33 round mag now been used in several shootings?  Seems like Glock would stop selling them just because it seems in bad taste to keep doing so.  The one guy I know who owns one got it solely because it was so evil it's cool. 

I don't think much of mag size enforced by law, but I do think that it's more than a little grotesque to keep making and selling an object that seems to have become a symbol of mass murder.  I mean, Zyklon B may be really good at killing bugs, but I'd still rather not use it, or see it on store shelves. 

Yeah, so, I just Godwin-ed Glock.  I didn't do it on purpose, it was just the first analogy I thought of. 

FWIW, Zyklon B is still apparently being produced. 

Zyklon B is still in production in the Czech Republic in the factory Draslovka Kolín a.s. in the city Kolín under the tradename Uragan D2, sold for eradicating insects and small animals.

[Viking]

FWIW, Zyklon B is still apparently being produced. 

It was used for a murder/attempted murder here just 2-3 years ago IIRC.

[lee n. field]

Hasn't the evil Glock 33 round mag now been used in several shootings? 

This is the only one I can think of.

I have half a mind to get one.  Even though, to me, a standard 15 round mag seems endless.
 

I don't think much of mag size enforced by law, but I do think that it's more than a little grotesque to keep making and selling an object that seems to have become a symbol of mass murder.  I mean, Zyklon B may be really good at killing bugs, but I'd still rather not use it, or see it on store shelves. 

Yeah, so, I just Godwin-ed Glock.  I didn't do it on purpose, it was just the first analogy I thought of. 

1) Who's making the Glock 3x round magazine a symbol of anything? It's an option, not a symbol.

2) If Zyklon B is that good, it'd still be out there, rebranded.  

[Fly320s]

Hasn't the evil Glock 33 round mag now been used in several shootings?  Seems like Glock would stop selling them just because it seems in bad taste to keep doing so.  The one guy I know who owns one got it solely because it was so evil it's cool. 

I don't think much of mag size enforced by law, but I do think that it's more than a little grotesque to keep making and selling an object that seems to have become a symbol of mass murder.  I mean, Zyklon B may be really good at killing bugs, but I'd still rather not use it, or see it on store shelves. 

Yeah, so, I just Godwin-ed Glock.  I didn't do it on purpose, it was just the first analogy I thought of. 

Oh, come on, BW!  What kind of namby-pampy line-of-thinking is that?  You sound like a bed-wetting liberal instead of an attorney with deductive reasoning skills. 

Let's replace "Glock 33 round mag" with "handgun" and see how your first sentence reads. "Hasn't the evil handgun now been used in several shootings?"  Is that how you really view this mass murder event?  Do you really think that restricting by law an inert object will fix anything?  Would you feel better if the shooter had used two 17-round magazines instead of one 33-round mag?  Or two 15 round handguns instead of one 33-round Glock?  There is no way in Hell, Michigan, that anyone can blame Glock or the large magazine capacity for this event.  If the shooter had used a single-shot .22, the freaking crybaby leftisits would still be calling for the ban of handguns, Nerfguns, and squirt guns.

As to Glock stopping the sales of their guns and accessories just because some nutjob used one to murder people, that is just a retarded idea.  Can you name one commercially sold product that has not been misused?  Should every manufacturer of every product on this planet stop the sale of that product once it has been misused, just in case the product develops some sort of weird cult following?

Good-freaking-grief.

[BridgeRunner]

Who said anything about restricting it?  I just don't think they are very tasteful at this point.

Good grief, can one dislike something without wanting to outlaw it? Can one dislike something without blaming bad stuff on it?

The guy I know who has one got it after VA Tech, because apparently that made them cool.  I found his enthusiasm off-putting.

[mtnbkr]

Most of my gun related purchasing, since GWB's second midterm election, has been based on the assumption that we'll be facing some problems.  I've been trying to get away from oddball stuff, into standard chamberings, and into guns I can get parts for.  Bullet casting, and more handloading bits.  Buy more ammo than I shoot.

As long as you're not buying stuff you wouldn't otherwise buy just because "it might get banned/regulated".  There was a guy on THR years ago (before 2004) whining because of the health and financial hardships he suffered because he poured his wealth into ARs and AKs just before the ban went into effect.  Then he didn't want to sell any to pay for the health/dental care he needed.

I'm not buying anything I wouldn't buy otherwise myself.  I might buy a bit more of it, but rather than buying a Glock, I'll just buy another vintage revolver.  That way, if no bans materialize, I have stuff I'm more likely to enjoy.

Chris

[Fly320s]

Seems like Glock would stop selling them just because it seems in bad taste to keep doing so. 

To me, that is pushing the pebble down the hill.  It could start an avalanche. 

The above plus this:

I mean, Zyklon B may be really good at killing bugs, but I'd still rather not use it, or see it on store shelves.

equates, in my mind at least, to a de facto willingness to submit to mob rule.  Or, to write more clearly, it reads to me like you wouldn't mind the ban on evil Glock 33-round magazines if the majority of US citizens thought that the mags are distasteful and as long as there was a suitable replacement for the 33-round mags, in much the same way as a suitable replacement for Zyklon B is in use.  So then the question is, "What is suitable to BW/the US government?"

The guy I know who has one got it after VA Tech, because apparently that made them cool.  I found his enthusiasm off-putting.

I can understand that.  Lots of people collect Nazi memoriabilia for the same reason. 

[Fly320s]

As long as you're not buying stuff you wouldn't otherwise buy just because "it might get banned/regulated". 

This is key.  I highly doubt that the Glock 33-round magazine prices have started to rise because of this event.  If you want some, buy some.  It really is that simple.

[French G.]

I own several and need to get more. The 33rd stick is my default choice when I am on the road, want to defend my family, and a rifle is inconvenient. I carry a G17, a conventional reload, a 33rd stick in the center console or door pocket and often a secondary gun. Grab the mag while exiting the vehicle is the plan. Usually carry one as a reload in the backpack while hiking in BFE. I can reload a 10rd mag in a Glovk faster than 95% of the Glock owning public and I still see the utility of the big stick. I like my +5 extensions on my 17rd mags too.

[never_retreat]

My guess is that if they go to a capacity ban, they'll go for ten again.

Na they will try something like 9, so that practically every magazine in existence would be illegal.

[Fly320s]

Now that I am worked-up and missing Diners, Drive-Ins, and Dives, I shall respond in full.

The evil 33rd Glock stick mag is being blamed for murder.

Should we:

1.  Care at all?  Is the political climate likely to result in a ban of rounds greater than "X" rounds?
  No.    It is always a possibility, but not likely for this event.  First, the Republicans control the house, so (hopefully) they can stop the stupidity before it gets anywhere.  Second, there does not exist a large or vocal general public outrage over guns/high-cap mags/etc. 

2.  If "X" rounds are found to be evil, is the number likely to be 10? 15? 20? or Stick mags greater than 170mm?
  10 or less in my opinion.  10 makes sense since several states use that as their state limit and because it was used previously.

3.  I've been wanting XD long mag body magazines.  The IPSC/USPSA ones that hold about 25 rounds or so.  I don't care if the ProMag craptastic ones get taken off the market, but I have a hint of worry for the quality ones for pistol run-n-gun competitions.  I'd like a set for my XD, as well as for my CZ-75.  Buy now?  Wait to see legislation (if any)?
  Buy now, just like you would for anything else you are wanting/able to afford.  I do hope you don't mean that you don't care if the ProMag brand is banned so long as your personal favorite brand is allowed on the market.

4.  Implement plausible deniability (relocate/hide/bury) for our current standard capacity normal magazines, or a small subset of them?
  I don't see a need for that.  Yet.  Obama and his ilk may want to wave their magic wands and ban everything that they don't like, but it won't happen this year.

[Perd Hapley]

Hasn't the evil Glock 33 round mag now been used in several shootings?  Seems like Glock would stop selling them just because it seems in bad taste to keep doing so. 

Seems like gun-forum members would not object to gun-related things just because some people have a bad perception of them. Seems in bad taste to do so. Ask Jim Zumbo.

And since I'd never heard of 33-round mags being used illegally until yesterday (and I don't know what Zyklon B is), I'd guess most Americans are ignorant of these things as well. May not be so much of an image problem as one might think.

[lee n. field]

(and I don't know what Zyklon B is)

Think, "Nazi gas chambers."

[AZRedhawk44]

Let's replace "Glock 33 round mag" with "handgun" and see how your first sentence reads. "Hasn't the evil handgun now been used in several shootings?"  Is that how you really view this mass murder event?  Do you really think that restricting by law an inert object will fix anything?  Would you feel better if the shooter had used two 17-round magazines instead of one 33-round mag? 

The shooter was tackled as his first 33 round magazine ran dry, the slide was visibly locked back, and he was attempting a reload.

To be fair to the logic and tactics of the situation, if the slide had locked back at 10 rounds he would have shot fewer people.

However:  given that the Congresswoman was his first target she'd still have been shot.  9 other people would be shot, too, and we'd still have a "mass shooting" for liberals to wet their pants over instead of however many he ended up getting with his 33 round magazine.


From a more personal perspective (if you remove motive from the situation for a moment) the shooter's rationale is exactly why I switched from a 1911 to a wundernine.  In response to the throngs of illegals marching around, demanding things from people, between 2004 and 2008.  I wanted 15-20 rounds on my hip without reloading so that, given a mob that felt like intimidating/assaulting a random white guy (rather than the shooter's peaceful group of 30-odd people outside of a Safeway) I could put down the closest/meanest half dozen and convince the remaining dozen to get their bellies acquainted with the dirt.

Tools can be used any number of ways.

[kgbsquirrel]

Na they will try something like 9, so that practically every magazine in existence would be illegal.

4, can't allow those high capacity 1911's or assault revolvers dodge the ban!