Seems the Judge is iffy even with the "right" ammo...

[AJ Dual]

The "Box O' Truth" was criticized (rightly so) for using cut down .410 shotshells in their first test. So he went back and tried it with a 3" barrel model to get any velocity gain he could, and with a selection of pistol-optimized .410, or premium defense loadings.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1174519

Looks as though with premium self-defense ammo one or two of the loads might meet the FBI minimum penetration spec, however, patterns at even 7 yards for all of them were still abysmal. 

Unless you're a sport fisherman who needs a put-down weapon for point blank shots before bringing dangerous fish into the boat, or you have a real need to eliminate snakes right between your feet... The Judge just does not deliver much "justice".

[Boomhauer]

No *expletive deleted*...


If you brought a judge to use as a defensive weapon against humans...well, you are a *expletive deleted*ing idiot.

[41magsnub]

No *expletive deleted*...


If you brought a judge to use as a defensive weapon against humans...well, you are a *expletive deleted* idiot.

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel...

[Boomhauer]

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel...

The Judge...it's the dipshit sidearm of choice. SHOTGUN YOU CAN HOLD IN YOUR HAND!!!!111!!!!!. Suddenly, a caliber that struggles against thin skinned small game when chambered in a full length shotgun is a death dealing ray of destruction when chambered in a shitty revolver made by a shitty company...BUT IT BLOWS UP WATERMELONS!!!!111!!!!. Yeah, because I'm fearing a revolt out of the produce section at Wal-Mart more than I fear a mugger in an alley.

[birdman]

Hahahaha, glad people share my opinion of the judge (negative)...why would I want a firearm that is heavier, holds half as many rounds, has worse single-shot stopping power, and is the same sizeas my usp45...on the other hand (sarcasm) it's good for snakes! (well, so is a 12ga...or a rock)

[Boomhauer]

Hahahaha, glad people share my opinion of the judge (negative)...why would I want a firearm that is heavier, holds half as many rounds, has worse single-shot stopping power, and is the same sizeas my usp45...on the other hand (sarcasm) it's good for snakes! (well, so is a 12ga...or a rock)

Or as we've always used, a garden hoe...

I encounter about 4 or 5 snakes per year. Most of them are non-venomous (so why would I want to shoot a harmless creature?). For the one rattlesnake per year I encounter...well, a standard pistol works just fine.

[P5 Guy]

I was severely chastised for questioning the usefulness of these oh so popular shot revolvers. How come the Thunder Five didn't catch on but these did?
Now if any company comes out with a 28 gauge...

[41magsnub]

Speaking as a disinterested third party who has never so much as held a taurus product in my hand much less a judge, my apologies for getting in the middle of you assigning value on people based on the firearms they buy (calling them dipshits and idiots).  Carry on then.  I must have clicked on my favorite for ar15.com instead of APS.

[Boomhauer]

I was severely chastised for questioning the usefulness of these oh so popular shot revolvers. How come the Thunder Five didn't catch on but these did?
Now if any company comes out with a 28 gauge...

All about marketing. Guess the makers of the Thunder Five didn't buy enough ads and articles in gun rags...

[seeker_two]

Glad he redid the test with proper ammo....I learned a few things from this....

1. Using proper ammo (instead of bubba-ed loads) makes a difference.

2. A .410 full-sized shotgun makes for a great short-range HD weapon.

3. While I'm not interested in buying a Judge, I wouldn't hesitate getting a Bond Arms .410 derringer and have it for close-range work.

4. Shooting stuff really IS fun..... 

[birdman]

Speaking as a disinterested third party who has never so much as held a taurus product in my hand much less a judge, my apologies for getting in the middle of you assigning value on people based on the firearms they buy (calling them dipshits and idiots).  Carry on then.  I must have clicked on my favorite for ar15.com instead of APS.

Hmm. While I don't think the purchase of any weapon (regardless of tested capability or perceived utility) is sufficient evidence to make a conclusion as to the acuity of the user, I regard certain weapons as either (pardon the metaphor) "all season tires" or "race-ready tires".  In the former, a weapon is advertised as the "all {or many} purpose" weapon that excels at everything, thereby reducing the need to purchase different weapons.  In the latter, a weapon is advertised as being so unbelievably effective that many perceive its additional cost over a substitute to compensate for additional training.

Both types are exemplified with this specific weapon--advertised as wing great for HD and snakes/varmints and it's ability to use shotgun rounds for HD great for HD to make up for lack of precision in emergencies yet more easily pointed than a conventional shotgun.

It's those conclusions (drawn from advertisement) that are the issue.

[dm1333]

And so far nobody has talked about the fact that there are some really good .45 LC rounds out there that the Judge can shoot.

[Matthew Carberry]

And so far nobody has talked about the fact that there are some really good .45 LC rounds out there that the Judge can shoot.

Rounds that can be fired by every other .45 Colt revolver out there; some in much better packages at the same or similar price points. 

I have no beef with Taurus but the "hook" of the Judge IS the .410 capability.  If it can't utilize that with any significant benefit then it is indeed a gimmick gun.

[Tallpine]

And so far nobody has talked about the fact that there are some really good .45 LC rounds out there that the Judge can shoot.

That's what I was thinking, except a Judge is about the ugliest way to launch a .45 bullet :(

[HankB]

I can see a .410 revolver has some use in snake country.

But considering that I - and many others - don't consider a 12 ga with birdshot as a good self defense weapon, a .410 is off the bottom end of the scale. (Not that I want to stand in front of one, mind you . . .  ) Better than nothing, adequate with some loads, but there are better choices in better packages.

[dm1333]

Function, utility and beauty are all in the eye of the beholder.  I won't begrudge a company making something, marketing it and selling a bunch of them on the market.  I'll stick with my SS 605 though. 

[seeker_two]

And so far nobody has talked about the fact that there are some really good .45 LC rounds out there that the Judge can shoot.

That's what I was thinking, except a Judge is about the ugliest way to launch a .45 bullet :(

...and way too heavy for a .45Colt revolver....I wish Taurus would bring back the 455 snubby instead....

[dm1333]

That's what I was thinking, except a Judge is about the ugliest way to launch a .45 bullet

No argument there!  But the gun sells well so they must be doing something right.  Didn't S&W come out with their own version recently?  I never put a whole lot of thought into the Judge because I am pretty sure it isn't legal here in CA.

[MechAg94]

I am the proud owner of an 8 shot 357 magnum revolver.  Looking at that picture on the link, I think that 3" chambered Judge may be the same size or bigger than my 627.  It is certainly bigger than my 625.  I bet it doesn't even use moon clips either.

I have no beef with 45 long colt, but I was never impressed with 410 shot shells of any type as a defense gun.  If I saw a poisonous snake and there was pistol sitting next to a shovel, I am grabbing the shovel. 

[Boomhauer]

No argument there!  But the gun sells well so they must be doing something right.  Didn't S&W come out with their own version recently?  I never put a whole lot of thought into the Judge because I am pretty sure it isn't legal here in CA.

First- Note that my rage is directed at those who buy and recommend a Taurus Judge or similar for SD/HD. I don't care if you brought it to shoot snakes or whatever. If you carry it for SD and/or recommend it to others for the same...well, you are a dumbass.

The only thing they are doing right is marketing (and they are doing a hell of a job at it)...S&W jumped on the bandwagon to make the money from idjits with a more...discriminating taste in junk. Yes, I did a facepalm when learning that S&W decided to bring out the "Governor"¹. Actually, I did multiple facepalms.

And, yes, I call people who not only choose a Judge for SD, but RECOMMEND IT TO OTHERS FOR SD based on their "vast" experience shooting dirt clods and watermelons at the range with it *expletive deleted*ing idiots because they are. Giving idiotic advice that may very well get someone killed in an SD scenario is criminally stoopid, IMHO. This very much so includes Taurus (and now S&W) for marketing it as a defensive weapon in the first place, and the gunrags such as the NRA mags for praising it. 

Buy a real defensive grade gun if you want a SD gun. Feel free to buy a Judge for shooting dirt clods and watermelons, I don't care. Just don't recommend it as an SD weapon unless you like being known as a mouthbreathing jackwagon.

Honestly, if you've ever listened to the idiots at the guncounter clamoring for the Judge...you'd understand why it and it's acolytes are so hated...

¹Actually, my exact words were "What the F***ing HELL S&W?! Do you hire designers who ride the short bus to work? Thought you were making a turnaround with stuff like the M&P pistols and rifles and ditching locks on some models...but now you're snatching defeat from the jaws of victory."

[Perd Hapley]

unless you like being known as a mouthbreathing jackwagon.

You learn to live with it.

[roo_ster]

I am still stunned after reading the arfcom thread.  Someone suggested the Judge for BEAR defense?  Anyone still suggesting some .410 shot load for SD out of The Judge deserves to have calumny heaped on their head.

After having used CCI rat shot out of my .357mag and .45ACP, I figured that they were good enough with their #12 shot, as any larger shot that might be more effective at range is not going to pattern for squat.  My AMT DAO Backup in .45ACP will cycle the CCI .45ACP shot shell, if I want 6 rounds of such at hand.  And it packs better than The (Revolver with Elephantiasis) Judge.

Truly, the ability to use .410 shells out of a pistol is useful only for putting grins on your face and is roughly as effective as CCI shot shells on rats, snakes, etc. at bad breath range.

Yeah, it can shoot .45LC, but its reason for being is the .410 shot shell.

[Pharmacology]

Didn't the Thunder Five shoot .45/70 as well?

I'd buy THAT for a dollar!

[White Horseradish]

reducing the need to purchase different weapons.

Wait, what? A reason to buy FEWER guns? KILL IT WITH FIRE! 

 

[T.O.M.]

The blessing and curse that is the Judge, and probably the Governor as well, is that it is a gun that by looks is extremely appealing to the uninfomed shooter.  take the average person, and ask them which is more powerful...a .410 or a .357, and that person will pick the .410.  Why? Bigger number.  Set up the shells side by side, and you'll get even more support for the .410, because the shell is bigger.  Tell this person that you can shoot a shotgun shell out of the Judge/Governor, and that person will fall all over himself to buy one, because "it's a shotgun!"  years of watching TJ Hooker in re-runs has convinced that person that a shotgun will blow a badguy backwards through a window, so the Judge/Governor will do that as well.

I can't blame Taurus or Smith for riding this cash cow for all it's worth, but it's amazing to see some people I would call informed shooters starting to lean that way./  Heck, there's a bailiff here at the courthouse who is looking for a security holster for a Judge, becuase he thinks that it would be a good duty weapon for him.

PT Barnum wasn't wrong, you know...