"Off brand" guns

[Tallpine]

Recoil in single shots in 12 or 20 ga is all over the place.  If you're like my kids, then it's real light Green Dot loads only good for busting clays.  If your looking for something to do social work (Buckshot and Slugs), then recoil is going to a little rougher.  

So what I looking for this Sunday is a SxS in 12 ga for ~$300 and a Lever Gun in .30-30, .357, or .45 for around ~$300?  

I'm really most interested in a lever gun in .357 or 30-30. 

[AJ Dual]

<<<<<<<------- just got a Ruger LCR in 38 Special.

Ooooohhhhhh, send me the recipe please !!!  

That is the really cool thing about revolvers. As long as it does not squib in the bore, you can load as light as you want.  There's a possibility of flash-over detonation (hotly debated if the phenomena really exists though) of light loads that lay too flat in the case and ignite too much surface area at once, but you can solve that with a pinch of dacron or polyester stuffing to hold the powder against the primer and keep it from laying horizontally in the case.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/components/plastic_training_bullets.aspx These are tons of fun. You can use them in the basement, and they can be reloaded with fresh primers dozens of times as long as the box/backstop is gentle enough. (cardboard box full of old blankets/rags works great.) You can do the same with wax, but the reuse-ability of them, and that you can re-load them just with your fingers (not counting the primer, all you need there is a nail or a punch or whatnot though...) makes them way easier than messing with the wax.

They'd also work well for discouraging nuisance animals with no permanent injury too.

[Scout26]

I'm really most interested in a lever gun in .357 or 30-30. 

Anything else ?  There's normally a good variety of guns.  Wheel Guns, Shotguns, anything else you want.  I'm gonna see if I can find an short 870 barrel and make you cry 

[Tallpine]

Anything else ?  There's normally a good variety of guns.  Wheel Guns, Shotguns, anything else you want.  I'm gonna see if I can find an short 870 barrel and make you cry 

Well, the other issue is getting whatever you might find out here... 

[MechAg94]

I'm really most interested in a lever gun in .357 or 30-30. 

IMO, if you are looking for something that will reach out a little further like 100 yards or more, I would go for the 30/30.  In my experience playing with 357 at 100 yards, the bullet drop is substantial.  It isn't so bad you couldn't correct for it, but it is significant.

[Tallpine]

IMO, if you are looking for something that will reach out a little further like 100 yards or more, I would go for the 30/30.  In my experience playing with 357 at 100 yards, the bullet drop is substantial.  It isn't so bad you couldn't correct for it, but it is significant.

Yeah, but the ammo is "cheaper" (about the price of rifle ammo a few years ago  ), the magazine holds more rounds, it can be significantly quieter, and it interchanges with my sidearm.

On the flip side, the difference in purchase price would buy quite a bit of ammo, and I suspect this will not be a plinker anyway.  I have a .22 for that.

I've always wanted to try a Marlin 336.  The ones I've handled seem quite a bit smoother than the Winchester 94.

[seeker_two]

I would suggest a bore light also.  I have heard some of those pawn shop rifles can have shot out barrels.

Of course.....caveat emptor and all that..... 

[Tallpine]

If I ever meet a man who can afford to buy enough ammo to shoot out a rifle barrel, I think I'll shake his hand - or buy him a Daniel Webster cigar.

[RoadKingLarry]

Here's a shot of a dandy little .30-30. Marlin 336 "Texan" with a Leupold 1-4X20. Load was 30 gr ww748 under a 180 gr cast lead bullet.

[Boomhauer]

If I ever meet a man who can afford to buy enough ammo to shoot out a rifle barrel, I think I'll shake his hand - or buy him a Daniel Webster cigar.

I've seen a lot more barrels abused rather than actually shot out. Poor cleaning methods and poor tools...

[PTK]

I'd have to agree there, for certain. I have a rifle that was made in 1871, cartridge gun mind you, that I've personally shot over 2,000 rounds (all reloads, all non corrosive of course) through - I can only GUESS how many tens of thousands of rounds went before mine. It's still got perfectly clean and sharp rifling.

I'm not sure that ordinary shooting without abusing the rifle CAN shoot the barrel out. Clean it properly with the right tools, keep it from rusting, and it'll last many more generations indeed.

The only rifles I've seen with "shot out" bores actually had "cleaning rod eroded" bores.

[roo_ster]

I'd have to agree there, for certain. I have a rifle that was made in 1871, cartridge gun mind you, that I've personally shot over 2,000 rounds (all reloads, all non corrosive of course) through - I can only GUESS how many tens of thousands of rounds went before mine. It's still got perfectly clean and sharp rifling.

I'm not sure that ordinary shooting without abusing the rifle CAN shoot the barrel out. Clean it properly with the right tools, keep it from rusting, and it'll last many more generations indeed.

The only rifles I've seen with "shot out" bores actually had "cleaning rod eroded" bores.

High rates of fire that heat up the bbl will do the trick.  Easier to do on some guns than others.

[AZRedhawk44]

If I ever meet a man who can afford to buy enough ammo to shoot out a rifle barrel, I think I'll shake his hand - or buy him a Daniel Webster cigar.

Go to a high power match.

Lots of guys there shoot out rifle barrels every 2-3 years, putting 5-8k rounds through the barrel before replacing it and mounting a new one.  Bi-monthly 50rd matches plus a practice session or two will put 3-4k rounds through a rifle per year.

.30-30 has a LOT more authority downrange than .357.  And significantly better range.  I'd much rather stomp the hills with a .30-30 than a .357 levergun.

[mtnbkr]

Go to a high power match.

Lots of guys there shoot out rifle barrels every 2-3 years, putting 5-8k rounds through the barrel before replacing it and mounting a new one.  Bi-monthly 50rd matches plus a practice session or two will put 3-4k rounds through a rifle per year.

But are those barrels actually "shot out" or did they just decrease in accuracy from .25 MOA to .5 MOA, the latter being hardly shot out and still more accurate than most people can shoot...

Chris

[charby]

If I ever meet a man who can afford to buy enough ammo to shoot out a rifle barrel, I think I'll shake his hand - or buy him a Daniel Webster cigar.

Same with a handgun

[AZRedhawk44]

But are those barrels actually "shot out" or did they just decrease in accuracy from .25 MOA to .5 MOA, the latter being hardly shot out and still more accurate than most people can shoot...

Chris

More than 0.25 to 0.5... closer to 0.25 to 1.5.  Which ends up resulting in more 9-ring hits and fewer X's.

Not that I have that problem...   Wish I averaged as a 9-ring shooter.  I'm averaging 8.5 right now.

[mtnbkr]

More than 0.25 to 0.5... closer to 0.25 to 1.5.  Which ends up resulting in more 9-ring hits and fewer X's.

Not that I have that problem...   Wish I averaged as a 9-ring shooter.  I'm averaging 8.5 right now.

Ok, so "shot out" is a relative term.  1.5MOA would still be a good deer-whacker.

Chris

[Tallpine]

Ok, so "shot out" is a relative term.  1.5MOA would still be a good deer-whacker.

Chris

Especially if you sneak up on em and whack em over the head with the buttstock 

[roo_ster]

Ok, so "shot out" is a relative term.  1.5MOA would still be a good deer-whacker.

Chris

M16A2 dispersion requirement is 4MOA or less.  For a new rifle.  I doubt the follow-on rifles & carbines better that.

[PTK]

And, really, 4 MOA is still fantastically accurate when it comes to battlefield effectiveness. :)

[AZRedhawk44]

And, really, 4 MOA is still fantastically accurate when it comes to battlefield effectiveness. :)

But it's only 8-ring accuracy for a highpower match.

Guys shooting 490-20x on a 50 shot course won't put up with a 4MOA rifle, when their bodies are capable of 1MOA accuracy.

[Tallpine]

Probably lots of 30-30's out there at the target matches 

[seeker_two]

Ok, so "shot out" is a relative term.  1.5MOA would still be a good deer-whacker.

Chris

Most successful deer hunters I know own rifles that might do 3.5MOA on a good day..........

[mtnbkr]

Most successful deer hunters I know own rifles that might do 3.5MOA on a good day..........

Right.  The point was, the barrels were hardly "shot out", they just weren't accurate enough for the intended purpose.  IMO, a "shot out" barrel would be inconsistent, very inaccurate, and probably wouldn't have enough rifling to properly engage the bullet (or have an over-sized bore).

Chris

[MechAg94]

Y'all are probably right on the "shot out" thing.  I still would bring a bore light to inspect any pawn shop rifle to make sure the rifling was in good shape instead of just assuming it was impossible to "shoot out" a barrel.