motorcycle?

[AZRedhawk44]

Starting new job in 2 weeks.

Will be commuting 30 miles each way each day, rather than telecommuting now.

Current vehicle is a 17mpg truck.

Always wanted a motorcycle.  A lighter cruiser.  Honda or yamaha, 650 to 900 cc.

Doing the math, gas on the truck to commute will be about $225 a month.  Split 50/50 with a 45mpg motorcycle, i save $100 a month.

I also get to use the HOV lane if on a bike.

APS's thoughts?

Probably going to do the intro to motorcycle class next weekend.

[Brad Johnson]

Make sure your life insurance is paid up and your organ donor card is current.

Brad

[dm1333]

A Motorcycle Safety Foundation course or the state equivalent is a good start.  I wouldn't rule out something like a used HD Sportster 883.  Mine was rock solid reliable and at 55 mph got close to 60 mpg.  Parts availability isn't an issue.  If I was going to buy another bike right now it would be a Suzuki DR650.

[MrsSmith]

What are the other drivers in your area like? In South Florida, I wouldn't get on anything with less than four wheels if my life depended on it with all the idiot drivers around. In this area your odds of survival are slightly higher. In Georgia, where people drive like molasses, probably a LOT higher. That said, I think situational awareness goes a long way toward staying safe on two wheels. And damn it, they're just fun!

[RoadKingLarry]

In all seriousness...
Just how big an ole boy are you?

The 650cc cruisers are in my experienced opinion to light/underpowered for commuting on the highway for someone of average size. If you are 6' or better the Sportster will likely cramp you up like a pretzel.

[roo_ster]

Make sure your life insurance is paid up and your organ donor card is current.

Brad

Yup.

My wife sees them all the time at <local Level 1 trauma center>.

Also note, that even an injury that is not instantaneously, obviously gork-making can result in a gork.  Say, you have a really nasty leg break, compound, all busted up.  You may not lose the leg, but you get a fair chance at a blot clot stroking you out and ending up goked out anyways.

Risk of al that happening depends on teh rider and teh local drivers.  Anyplace with lots of retirees or illegals is contraindicated.

[MillCreek]

Does the weather in your area allow for year-round riding?  Because that would certainly push the cost-benefit analysis towards a cheap used bike.  My riding season is April to September.  I ride the maxi-scooter or dual-sport as much as feasible for my work commuting, but there are still a lot of times that I have to drive four wheels even during the riding season.  Because the Ford Escape gets around 19 MPG combined, I bought a Kia Soul as an cheap commuter with 30 MPG combined. 

And safety is a concern, but you can minimize your risk by ATGATT.  I take a realistic view of the risk of motorcycling since I am often riding bicycles on the roads while essentially wearing underwear and a styrofoam ice bucket on my head.  This is probably a lot more risky than the kind of motorcycling that I do. 

In terms of speed, my 460 cc maxi-scooter and 650 cc Suzuki dual sport will go 70-75 all day long on the freeways around here, and there is usually too much traffic to go any faster.

Your mileage on all of this will probably vary.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

bike is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
do it while you are young and single
it will reinforce situational awareness

[grampster]

Umm, factor in the cost of the bike and the insurance, any savings on gas is cancelled.

Couple that with the potential life altering or life ending crash that wasn't your fault, I'd pay for the gas and keep the safer ride.

Riding is fun, no doubt.  Lots of fun.  But people in cars are bound and determined to kill you, especially since there are so many more people on the road now than when I rode.  They will pull out in front of you, turn in front of you, cut you off, lane change on you, tailgate you and have to, just have to pass you.  Even then (1960's) it was scary.  I satisfied my bike jones by getting a dirt bike and riding on tracks or in the woods.

[MillCreek]

Umm, factor in the cost of the bike and the insurance, any savings on gas is cancelled.

QFT.  I bet my cost per mile on the bikes is more expensive than the cars, between insurance, tires, gear and maintenance.  But I make no pretense that motorcycling is to save me money on my commutes; I do it for recreation.

[French G.]

I think the same thing, my commute is 4 days a week, 65 miles one way, mountain roads. I went from a 15mpg truck to a 23-26mpg car recently, love it. Even that, with the car payment it is about a wash moneywise based on $3.50 gas. Gas goes to $5 I win obviously. I have thought and thought about a bike, I really want a big dual sport. This area is bike mecca, it sucks in tons of baggers and the BMW dual sport crowd, not too many power rangers though.

Factors against:
-I'm already pushing my new car on occasion, just so I still know how to drive. 3am I can see headlights and there is not much out there, I can squeak some tires and link some turns so a 25 turn mountain gets done in about 18. It's a little dicey to get a scandinavian flick right on an AWD car, but it's doable.  Even with a 20 year old F-150 I've seen few people who could pace me through the hills. So with a bike, lacking airbag and such, do I have enough self control to just putter along?

-By the time I'm done buying Bell Kevlar, insurance, and some AeroStitch I am out a lot of gas money.

-120 miles per day is a lotta bike maintenance.

-Tiredness at night and deer. Again, a minor inconvenience in a car, a little worse on a bike.

Of course I know of someone who rides over the same mountains regularly. On a freakin moped!!! I guess if you don't have a license and still want to go you do some tarded stuff.

I will still get a bike, but once I am debt free and have enough 4 wheeled stuff so there is no have to in my choice to ride.

[Hawkmoon]

Riding is fun, no doubt.  Lots of fun.  But people in cars are bound and determined to kill you, especially since there are so many more people on the road now than when I rode.  They will pull out in front of you, turn in front of you, cut you off, lane change on you, tailgate you and have to, just have to pass you.  Even then (1960's) it was scary.  I satisfied my bike jones by getting a dirt bike and riding on tracks or in the woods.

Word.

I sold my last motorcycle 20 or 25 years ago. I keep the endorsement on my driver's license "just because," but I've never ridden since then and I most likely won't -- at least not on pavement. I went for a recreational ride on a gorgeous autumn afternoon, and came back knowing that the next time I ventured forth on a motorcycle some dweeb in a car was going to kill me. I remain secure in that knowledge, and thus I will not ride again. Commute on a motorcycle? NO WAY!

[bedlamite]

Assume $200 for tires every 5-10K miles depending on how you ride and what kind of tires, chain and sprocket set is $150 and lasts 10-20K miles depending on maintenance. Liability insurance runs me about $100/year for my KLR650, $230/year full coverage on my SV1000S. A good set of leathers and a helmet can be had for $500

Assuming you can ride all year, that's about 15k miles, at 3.50/gal and 40mpg, 375 gallons is about $1300, add in tires, chain, ins, and leather and it's about $2500 . Your truck would cost about $3000 in fuel, maintenance and tires will add a couple hundred a year, depreciation per mile can be significant depending on the age of the truck.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/mcy/2734771047.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/mcy/2734762267.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/mcy/2687128298.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/mcy/2734640402.html
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/mcy/2734254746.html

[Monkeyleg]

I can get 12,000 to 15,000 miles from a set of tires, but that's still $500 with mounting and balancing (and Harley's ridiculous prices). Parts break more easily as they're smaller, and they cost as much or more than equivalent car parts.

So, I agree with others who've said that the gas savings are largely negated by other costs.

I don't like it when non-riders make remarks about donor cards and such to someone considering taking up riding. There are those of us who've been riding for decades and never had an accident, or if we did, had a very minor one. You should assume the possibility of a serious accident, as the odds are against you more on a cycle than in a car, but if you ride well and sober and sensibly, you can survive.

[BobR]

I can get 12,000 to 15,000 miles from a set of tires,

Wow, that's a lot-o-miles. I can get around 8k. Of course mine are probably a little softer than what you use. I ride an old Honda Hurricane 1000 so I tend to run a little sticky tires. So, the type of bike and choice in tires can also factor into the bottom line for the OP.

I don't like it when non-riders make remarks about donor cards and such to someone considering taking up riding. There are those of us who've been riding for decades and never had an accident, or if we did, had a very minor one.

Let's see, I started riding when I was 12, so that makes a little over 45 years of owning and riding bikes in all types of locales, rural to the Bay Area commute. I have had 3 wrecks and I still have all of my parts and most of my mental faculties no matter what my wife says.

Wreck 1 was the typical "I didn't see you" when she pulled out in front of me, #2 was when I broadsided a buffalo (American Bison type) late one night in a wildlife refuge and the 3rd was whe I got in some wet leaves on the side of the road and banged into the guardrail.

Don't buy the bike for the money you will save, as has been pointed out, it really won't in the long run. If you don't do your own maintenance you can also add about 75 dollars an hour for labor fees and even more expensive parts than a car dealer.

bob

[tokugawa]

I've been riding since I built up my first bike from a basket in 1970.  Things have gotten way worse out there. Don't get me wrong- I love bikes. But I also just lost my next door neighbor and friend. Someone cut him off in the morning commute. Full face helmet, all the gear did no good. One solid strike on the head and that was it.

 Cities are freaking dangerous places to ride, and commuter traffic is the most dangerous to ride in. Everyone is either in a hurry to get to work and put their makeup on-call clients- etc on the way in, or tired and impatient to get home. It is a hostile environment for bikes.
 You need a fighter pilot's situational awareness and solid bike handling skills and some luck.

 Incidentally, this is the second or third time somebody in the local bike community has lost their life this season due to a rear brake lockup, a sideways skid, and a subsequent high side when they let off the brake and the rear tire abruptly re-gained traction. My next bike will have anti- lock brakes.  
 
 "Proficient Motorcycling" by David Hough. Recognized by the AMA for his years of teaching riding skills.

[bedlamite]

I don't like it when non-riders make remarks about donor cards and such to someone considering taking up riding

And it's really hard to take them seriously when they do that while wearing a T-shirt from a Harley dealer.

[Monkeyleg]

And it's really hard to take them seriously when they do that while wearing a T-shirt from a Harley dealer.

Fortunately, Harley as a fashion statement seems to be fading. I doubt the next will be motorcycles. Maybe everyone will be wearing iPad t-shirts.

[AZRedhawk44]

In all seriousness...
Just how big an ole boy are you?

The 650cc cruisers are in my experienced opinion to light/underpowered for commuting on the highway for someone of average size. If you are 6' or better the Sportster will likely cramp you up like a pretzel.

I'm 6'2" tall, about 195 lbs.

I've been told not to go too big on a first bike several times, so I don't want to get into some 1000-16000cc beast that has more power than I know how to control.  Heard several times that 600cc or bigger is plenty for solo highway travel at responsible speeds.  That the little 250's "can" do it, but they're straining at 65mph for a real adult on board.

I'd prefer to stay away from Harleys since they have a bad mechanical reputation and are all pretention and little substance, nowadays.  It's an extra $1000 to throw down the toilet, comparing a 883 or 1200 sportster to some of the other offerings from honda/yamaha/suzuki.  And, I'd rather have water-cooled than air cooled.  Not quite as "authentic" looking, but I've seen more than one harley stalled out here in the AZ summer, locked up at a long traffic light.

Honda's 745cc Shadow series is water-cooled, but the seat is only 25.9" from the ground, while the Yamaha air-cooled V-star 650 is 27.4" up.  Suzuki's 805cc C50T is 27.6" from the ground and water cooled, but I don't like the look of that particular bike.  Then again, an HD Dyna is 25.5-26.7 inches from the ground.  I'm a tall guy and I'm sure I'd probably appreciate a slightly taller bike, coming to stops frequently.  All 3 Asian cruisers are shaft driven rather than belt driven, and I hear that is MUCH lower maintenance than a belt.

[Strings]

>There are those of us who've been riding for decades and never had an accident, or if we did, had a very minor one.<

Such as pinning yourself under said bike outside your hotel room? 

>Cities are freaking dangerous places to ride<

QFT. I would MUCH rather be doing 75 on the freeway, than 25 in town: at least on the freeway, most of the idiots are going the same direction.

> All 3 Asian cruisers are shaft driven rather than belt driven, and I hear that is MUCH lower maintenance than a belt.<

Well, it's a trade off. You have to replace a belt or chain more often, but it's MUCH easier to do yourself. You have a shaft go out, it's a major PITA

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

one consideration is insurance goes up considerably when you go above a 750  real fast

[Jocassee]

I can get 12,000 to 15,000 miles from a set of tires, but that's still $500 with mounting and balancing (and Harley's ridiculous prices). Parts break more easily as they're smaller, and they cost as much or more than equivalent car parts.

So, I agree with others who've said that the gas savings are largely negated by other costs.

Pretty much what he said. Things that are simple and cheap on a car, like tires and brakes, are much more expensive on a bike because of the hardware dismounts and remounts involved. Tires wear down much faster (although exactly how much faster depends on how froggy you get with the machine). For me personally, having driven slow japanese cars my whole life, being put on a bike (almost any bike will have a higher thrust/weight ration than a normal sedan) was an irrestistable invite to twist the throttle on take-offs and turns.

[Monkeyleg]

Strings, I've dropped my bike on my legs a few times, usually at the end of a full day's ride when I was exhausted. I don't count that as an accident, just stupid.

As I see it, there's two periods in a person's life when riding is the most dangerous: when he's young and when he's old. As I turn 61, I'm seeing the day come when I decide it will be too dangerous for me to ride. It's not here yet, but it's coming.

I had one accident when I was sixteen, the usual driver turning left in front of me. I only had bruises. Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe I've done just about everything right in potential accident situations, or maybe it's combination of the two. I don't want to press my luck by riding when my reaction time or motor skills have deteriorated too far.

[MillCreek]

^^^^ When the time comes, I wonder if one of those Gold Wing trikes or the Can Am Spyder may be just the ticket.  I am starting to see a number of those Spyders on the road around here.

[Nick1911]

Here's the thread I started on the topic of motorcycling safety: http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=29813.0

That said; motorcycling is very fun.  Yes, there is some risk, some of which can be managed or mitigated, some can not.

If you're doing this purly for economic reasons, don't.  Sell your truck on the private market, and buy an economy car.