Lasers

[lee n. field]

I'm contemplating a pistol laser, probably for my PF9.

Does anyone here have any experience with the Armalaser Small Block?  What I find interesting about this is, it's activated by putting your finger in the trigger guard.  No extra controls to remember and fumble for.

(Yeah, yeah, I know.  "Get the Crimson Trace."  It costs a bunch more but it's not out of the range of possibility.)

[RoadKingLarry]

I'm contemplating a pistol laser

I'd rather have a laser pistol

[Monkeyleg]

Looks like they're copying the Crimson Trace LaserGuards.

You might want to take a look at the Crimson Trace CMR-201 Rail Master universal rail mount laser. It's much smaller than what you're showing, and the cost is in the $130 range.

Just sayin'. 

[Blakenzy]

This is a question for the ill-tempered, mutated sea bass..

[AJ Dual]

Looks like they're copying the Crimson Trace LaserGuards.

You might want to take a look at the Crimson Trace CMR-201 Rail Master universal rail mount laser. It's much smaller than what you're showing, and the cost is in the $130 range.

Just sayin'. 

I actually think the Armalaser units came out first, they've been moderately active on KTOG for several years now, and were developing their sights for the Keltecs first before any other pistols.

I feel bad saying this, since I think they were actually first... However, while I think it's a slick design, I don't like the fact you have to put your finger IN THE TRIGGER GUARD to activate the laser. (IIRC, it uses a capacitance sensor or similar to detect your finger...)  I would much prefer to be able to activate it independently for safety, and a whole host of other reasons. (Put the dot on someone without shooting to dissuade them etc.)

I have the LG-430H with the pocket holster for it that I got from you for my Keltec P-32, and it's fantastic. The activation button right under the trigger guard to be pressed by the middle finger is just as automatic as the Armalaser, but I don't have to risk trigger contact to use it.

I think the Armalaser is good, but the CTC's are better.

[Monkeyleg]

I actually think the Armalaser units came out first, they've been moderately active on KTOG for several years now, and were developing their sights for the Keltecs first before any other pistols.

That would explain why they're still around. Crimson Trace sues the pants off anyone who comes even remotely close to their design. They actually have a patent on the front below-the-trigger activation button.

[AJ Dual]

That would explain why they're still around. Crimson Trace sues the pants off anyone who comes even remotely close to their design. They actually have a patent on the front below-the-trigger activation button.

Hmm... Must only be for Lasers. SureFire and similar have those rigid tape switches that go to the same spot for their lights. And presumably SureFire isn't going to be pushed around by CT.

[vaskidmark]

.... (Put the dot on someone without shooting to dissuade them etc.)

....

Has anyone, except in the movies, ever actually seen dots on their chest and suddenly realized that one or more barrels were pointing right there?

The few times I have played with lasers it required either a mechanical device or a semi-unbiased third party to call out who had been covered/hit by the laser.

It's not like flashlight tag where the beam of light is big (wide) enough to be able to see that one has been covered by it without needing to stop and gaze at one's chest or navel.

It's always been one of those urban myths, like the sound of racking a shotgun coming through a door will cause BGs to crap their pants and depart, that painting someone with a laser will bring them to a screeching halt.  I'm looking for either personal experience of noticing you had laser beams showing up, or of some peer-reviewed research showing that it happens.

Anybody? 

stay safe.

[birdman]

Has anyone, except in the movies, ever actually seen dots on their chest and suddenly realized that one or more barrels were pointing right there?

The few times I have played with lasers it required either a mechanical device or a semi-unbiased third party to call out who had been covered/hit by the laser.

It's not like flashlight tag where the beam of light is big (wide) enough to be able to see that one has been covered by it without needing to stop and gaze at one's chest or navel.

It's always been one of those urban myths, like the sound of racking a shotgun coming through a door will cause BGs to crap their pants and depart, that painting someone with a laser will bring them to a screeching halt.  I'm looking for either personal experience of noticing you had laser beams showing up, or of some peer-reviewed research showing that it happens.

Anybody? 

stay safe.

They notice it right away when it's in their eyes.

[vaskidmark]

And "in their eyes" became the preferred aiming point just when?

(Yes, I'm a bit cranky.  Get used to it.)

stay safe.

[MechAg94]

Regarding the sound of racking a shell into a pump action shotgun, my Dad always preferred the sound of cycling the bolt on an M14.   

[lee n. field]

And "in their eyes" became the preferred aiming point just when?

I recall a thread here (I don't remember who or how long ago), wherein a gun laser across the eyes got the attention of a stupid teenager playing ninja with nunchucks, and probably saved his life.

Preferred, no.

(Yes, I'm a bit cranky.  Get used to it.)

And we love you for it.

[Jamisjockey]

I don't keep one in the chamber, but only because I don't like the Mossberg safety and keep it on fire.  If you hear the rack you'll hear the click bang.

I also don't buy the deterrent power of the laser.  Most people have them on pocket guns and my money is on it not being deployed until the decision to shoot has been made and at really close ranges.

[lee n. field]

You might want to take a look at the Crimson Trace CMR-201 Rail Master universal rail mount laser. It's much smaller than what you're showing, and the cost is in the $130 range.

It's a question of how the laser is actually pictured as being used.

My thought is, a laser is for an emergency, aiming in low light.  Bullet goes to where the red dot is.  If i have to finger a button to turn the laser on, that's one more thing to fumble and not do, in your own little temporary SHTF situation.    Which is why I'd be looking at the Laserguard and that Armalaser.  Everything else I see has a manual switch, sometimes pretty awkward looking.  (For instance, the LaserLyte revolver lasers like S&W uses on their plastic Bodyguard .38.   Exactly how am I supposed to turn that on, in the heat of the moment?)

If I'm wrong in any of this, please chime in.

[Jamisjockey]

It's a question of how the laser is actually pictured as being used.

My thought is, a laser is for an emergency, aiming in low light.  Bullet goes to where the red dot is.  If i have to finger a button to turn the laser on, that's one more thing to fumble and not do, in your own little temporary SHTF situation.    Which is why I'd be looking at the Laserguard and that Armalaser.  Everything else I see has a manual switch, sometimes pretty awkward looking.  (For instance, the LaserLyte revolver lasers like S&W uses on their plastic Bodyguard .38.   Exactly how am I supposed to turn that on, in the heat of the moment?)

+1

Saw a training video where the use of the laser was encouraged for snapping off a quick shot or two before you could get sight picture or from awkward firing positions.  The kind of stuff that happens instantly and would make the extra step of turning the laser on cumbersome.

[Monkeyleg]

A common problem with putting a laser on a gun, especially if the person has been shooting a long time, is learning to transition from open sights to laser. A lot of people will instinctively use the sights and wind up shooting the laser dot as a target.

[lee n. field]

Saw a training video where the use of the laser was encouraged for snapping off a quick shot or two before you could get sight picture or from awkward firing positions.  The kind of stuff that happens instantly and would make the extra step of turning the laser on cumbersome.

Crimson Trace's half hour DVD, by any chance?  Some good stuff in there, but it could have been cut by half, and still had "all the meat still on it".

[dogmush]

I recall a thread here (I don't remember who or how long ago), wherein a gun laser across the eyes got the attention of a stupid teenager playing ninja with nunchucks, and probably saved his life.

That was my thread, and yes, it my laser did stop him.  Thread is no longer up for a variety of reasons.

Hawk, I've also had good and heard of even more success with laser's as deterrents in the sand box.  Both weapons mounted and vehicle mounted.  It's not 100%, and I wouldn't rely on it at all times but the effect does exist.

On the OP, I find My CTC to be rugged and well built, and Dick has good prices on them.  I still want another for my P238.  A laser is just another sighting tool.  It doesn't replace sights, and it only works as well as the practice you put into it.

[RoadKingLarry]

I don't keep one in the chamber, but only because I don't like the Mossberg safety and keep it on fire.  If you hear the rack you'll hear the click bang.

The racking the slide thing would come just before the 2nd round, I can't but wonder how much the bad guy would care at that point.
 

[lee n. field]

I went with the Armalaser.  I had an Amazon gift certificate, and some rewards points that brought the out of pocket expense down to about $45, which is well below my impulse purchase point for gun related stuff.

Trivial to install.  It intrudes slightly into the trigger guard area, but even with my big fingers this was not a problem.

The "switch" is a wide silver strip inside the trigger guard.   The slightest touch activates the laser.  (It turns itself off after a little bit.)  It's on or off -- there is no pulse mode.  The manual suggests touching it with the thumb of the off hand if you'd rather not have your trigger finger inside the trigger guard.

In indoor lighting, it's one bright little sucker.  Outdoors, in full daylight, it's visible, but I'm better off with the conventional sights.  I figure, outdoors in daylight is not what it's for.  At night, I can paint a big bright dot farther away than I'd have any business shooting.

I took it out today, to try it in real shooting.  This is not a particularly easy gun to shoot, and I can't say the laser helped me make any magical precision shots.  This will take practice, and I will need to seek out a low light situation to try shooting in.  Towards the end of the session my hands were shaking, which is unusual for me, and the red dot was dancing.  This will take practice.

[Bigjake]

Hawk, I've also had good and heard of even more success with laser's as deterrents in the sand box.  Both weapons mounted and vehicle mounted.  It's not 100%, and I wouldn't rely on it at all times but the effect does exist.

FWIW,  the majority of the time we use lasers in country (that I'm aware of),  it's the green IR kind that you can only see with an NVM . YMMV.

http://www.marines.com/operating-forces/equipment/gear/peq-15-peq-16

[birdman]

FWIW,  the majority of the time we use lasers in country (that I'm aware of),  it's the green IR kind that you can only see with an NVM . YMMV.

http://www.marines.com/operating-forces/equipment/gear/peq-15-peq-16

The PEQ-15/16 has BOTH an IR laser and a visible one (that's why "green IR kind..." is well, confusing).
The PEQ-2 was IR only.

[Bigjake]

*Shrugs*

I'm aware of the visible one, we just never used it.

[birdman]

*Shrugs*

I'm aware of the visible one, we just never used it.

Likewise.  It wasn't present on the PEQ-2, so Im guessing they added it for target marking/warning purposes, or for CQB in daytime.

[dogmush]

Yeah, they added it for warning/designation purposes. We (the Army) usedngreen lasers as part of our force escelation with both approaching vehicles and people.

The mid east is a weird place. Even in a war there are peopoe that despite a huge sign that say if you approach you will be shot, don't think we'll shoot them. The human mind is amazing in the ability to convince itself that it's special and it deserve exceptions.  The bright green laser has turned back many a driver/walker that missed the sign.