Tax On Amazon Purchases In CA Begins Sat.

[Jamie B]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=161108548&ft=1&f=

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Online retailer Amazon.com has tried to become all things to all consumers, but in California, it is about to take on a role it has fought against for years: tax collector.

The change, which takes effect this weekend, comes after years of bitter back and forth between the world's largest online mall and the California Legislature over whether Internet retailers should have to charge sales tax. The two sides reached a deal in 2011 that included a one-year grace period set to end Saturday.

I was unaware of this - it is not a good precedent.

[Sergeant Bob]

There's a lot more states trying to get a piece of the pie as well.

Those money grubbing *wash my mouth out with soap* politicians will stop at nothing if they think they can get a buck.

[BryanP]

Yep.  Amazon has distribution centers here in TN.  They're set to begin collecting sales tax here in 2014 if I recall correctly.

[Ben]

I was unaware of this as well. I feel bad for Amazon, who I give a LOT of business to, but for big ticket items, I'm going to have to start looking to online retailers that haven't come under the hammer and sickle of California. I'm certainly not going to give CA the satisfaction of collecting any more taxes from me than they already do.

I haven't seen any notices on the Amazon site. I wonder if they're going to post anything, or just start charging the sales tax. Seems like a well worded post could get the large population of CA residents that buy on Amazon to give the state a piece of their mind.

[MechAg94]

I was unaware of this as well. I feel bad for Amazon, who I give a LOT of business to, but for big ticket items, I'm going to have to start looking to online retailers that haven't come under the hammer and sickle of California. I'm certainly not going to give CA the satisfaction of collecting any more taxes from me than they already do.

I haven't seen any notices on the Amazon site. I wonder if they're going to post anything, or just start charging the sales tax. Seems like a well worded post could get the large population of CA residents that buy on Amazon to give the state a piece of their mind.

Maybe you can go join the Whiskey Rebellion and protest taxes like that.   

These things are bound to happen when a small Internet retailer grows very large and has distribution centers all over the country. 

[Jamie B]

Those money grubbing *wash my mouth out with soap* politicians will stop at nothing if they think they can get a buck.

Damn, I have to remember this one - it rolls off the tongue perfectly! Snort! 

[De Selby]

Hopefully some bored consumer advocates will challenge the constitutionality of the "use tax" crap that California is using here.

It's not a sales tax, which CA can't collect from businesses in other states.  It's a tax they claim all residents need to pay on goods simply because they own the goods in CA.

[vaskidmark]

.... Seems like a well worded post could get the large population of CA residents that buy on Amazon to give the state a piece of their mind.

Seems like CA residents would be more than happy to see any other stream of revenue coming in to the state coffers in an attempt to balance the flood of money going out.  Especially if someone else was paying the money.

Srsly, the population has no history of getting up in arms about any tax issue except the property tax - and since their houses are currently being assessed for way less than they used to, aint no groundswell going to form in opposition to this move.

stay safe.

[RoadKingLarry]

Hopefully some bored consumer advocates will challenge the constitutionality of the "use tax" crap that California is using here.

It's not a sales tax, which CA can't collect from businesses in other states.  It's a tax they claim all residents need to pay on goods simply because they own the goods in CA.

Oklahoma has that. We're "required" to include it in our state income tax returns. 

[Stetson]

Yesterday I bought a few kindle versions of some books I can't find locally.

Item(s) Subtotal: $8.99
----
Total Before Tax: $8.99
Tax Collected: $0.36
----
Total for this Order: $9.35

I am not in CA....

[RevDisk]

Amazon is going to start collecting all state sales taxes. As well as opening more local distro warehouses

[TechMan]

Amazon is going to start collecting all state sales taxes. As well as opening more local distro warehouses

Yep and with setting up local warehouse they will start offering same day delivery.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/small_business/2012/07/amazon_same_day_delivery_how_the_e_commerce_giant_will_destroy_local_retail_.html

[RoadKingLarry]

Amazon, the Wal-mart of E -commerce

[BryanP]

Amazon, the Wal-mart of E -commerce

Yep.  Except with a better selection and I can get it dropped on my doorstep. Even when they start collecting the use tax for TN I'll probably still use them.

[AZRedhawk44]

Just shows that it's time to find new retailers.

[SADShooter]

With free 2 day shipping, I'll still buy some items from them at the cost of TX sales tax.

[Ben]

Seems like CA residents would be more than happy to see any other stream of revenue coming in to the state coffers in an attempt to balance the flood of money going out.  Especially if someone else was paying the money.

Sadly, you're very likely correct. From the comment sections in the various state news source articles I've read on it (and even some of the more conservative national news services) the trend seems to be "that it's about time Amazon paid their fare share" (nevermind that Amazon is collecting and not paying).

There are even plenty of posts referring to the criminals that have gotten away with not paying and not reporting Internet sales taxes  on their icome tax forms in general. Many of them then refer to all the money that will be collected to go to schools and infrastructure. Right.

People seem to look at Amazon and the other big name online retailers similar to them as criminals that are taking the food out of local mom and pop stores. They don't seem to realize that Walmart, et al in the Big Box community have been one of the driving forces to get this law passed.

Lastly, the "use tax" should simply be illegal. Internet orders aside, telling me that if I drive to any surrounding state to buy something (and in some cases having to pay that state's sales tax), and then having to pay tax again simply to bring it home is utterly ridiculous. I'm truly surprised that so many states have the use tax.

[Sergeant Bob]

Yesterday I bought a few kindle versions of some books I can't find locally.

Item(s) Subtotal: $8.99
----
Total Before Tax: $8.99
Tax Collected: $0.36
----
Total for this Order: $9.35

I am not in CA....

I just ordered something from them and they did not charge tax (I'm in MI). I wonder what the deal is with your purchase. Maybe they agreed to charge tax for your state too?

[charby]

Just shows that it's time to find new retailers.

Other retailers are going to have to start charging sales tax also.

Look states loose a lot of revenue from not being able to collect taxes from internet sales vs local retailers. They need to make this money up somewhere else so they are going to have to raise taxes/fees on other thinks like vehicle registrations, court costs, etc.

[Ben]

I just ordered something from them and they did not charge tax (I'm in MI). I wonder what the deal is with your purchase. Maybe they agreed to charge tax for your state too?

I've seen sales tax on several of my Amazon purchases over the last year or so. I think if the Amazon reseller is in certain states (and you happen to reside in the same state) you get hit with your state's sales tax. When I first saw it pop up, I played around a bit and if I chose a different link for the same item and put it in my cart, it wouldn't show tax.

[AZRedhawk44]

Other retailers are going to have to start charging sales tax also.

Look states loose a lot of revenue from not being able to collect taxes from internet sales vs local retailers. They need to make this money up somewhere else so they are going to have to raise taxes/fees on other thinks like vehicle registrations, court costs, etc.

"Sales tax" is supposed to pay for infrastructure consumed by the act of commerce.  Roads, traffic lights, police and so on.  City subsidies for malls and shopping centers, crap like that.

When the act of commerce does not involve traditional commerce avenues, the State does no work for the tax and no communal resources are consumed.  The first counter-argument typically made was that the UPS driver will consume roads/traffic/police/etc while delivering the product.  However, the UPS driver is already paying commercial-use vehicle registration, and often times multi-state registration for the long-haul ground services.

The simple fact remains that e-commerce consumes fewer state resources than traditional commerce, and sales tax is ever and ever inflated to be the catch-all funding source for all sorts of slush funds.  

Our sales tax in AZ has recently paid for a bull-scat light rail system, sports stadiums, and revamped shopping districts (for Walmart, Best Buy, and the other big box retailers who benefit from those sales taxes and hate the massive price differential between the online free market and the bullscat sales tax market).

I'm of the opinion that CONSUMERS of those facillities need to pay for them.

I deliberately purchase things where I pay no sales tax so that I don't fund them.

Taxes need to return to ethical justifications.  "No taxation without representation" doesn't work in a mutated Republic-become-Democracy.  We need "No taxation without consumption, taxation for consumption."

I might support a sales tax on online purchases that is 10% the rate of the conventional face-to-face sales tax.  Here in AZ, we're just shy of 10% sales tax, so a 1% online tax... I'd accept that.  That's justifiable.  10% on the purchase when the State does NOTHING is pure highway robbery.  

If States continue this trend, I'll fund the used market or grey market activities.

[charby]

If States continue this trend, I'll fund the used market or grey market activities.

There you go.

[zahc]

Forget all the arguments for or against collecting sales tax.

I don't even see how the CAN collect sales tax. How do they know how much sales tax to charge each customer? The amount is not uniform throughout a state. There are different slices of sales tax depending on where you live. I have no idea how it's divvied up. I pay different sales tax depending on whether I live in Dallas or Wiley Texas, for example. And the tax rates do not follow ZIP codes, so it's not as simple as charging based on ZIP code.

This happened to me recently when McMaster charged me $5.35 or something for sales tax. I have no idea how they came up with that number. And besides that, in theory, McMaster is going to send a check to...the state of Texas, or what? And then the State is going to mail a check to my City?

Calculating appropriate taxes to charge may be simple for a giant like Amazon. They probably just need to dedicate one of their cloud servers to the massive, constantly-changing database of tax rates based on address. But what is Mom and Pop internet business supposed to do? How can they charge sales tax to residents of other states, and how do they remit payment back to that person's state? It seems impossible.

[Ben]

Calculating appropriate taxes to charge may be simple for a giant like Amazon. They probably just need to dedicate one of their cloud servers to the massive, constantly-changing database of tax rates based on address. But what is Mom and Pop internet business supposed to do? How can they charge sales tax to residents of other states, and how do they remit payment back to that person's state? It seems impossible.

Excellent point. It also goes to show that "mom & pop" stores do not exist only in the brick and mortar.

[AZRedhawk44]

Forget all the arguments for or against collecting sales tax.

I don't even see how the CAN collect sales tax. How do they know how much sales tax to charge each customer? The amount is not uniform throughout a state. There are different slices of sales tax depending on where you live. I have no idea how it's divvied up. I pay different sales tax depending on whether I live in Dallas or Wiley Texas, for example. And the tax rates do not follow ZIP codes, so it's not as simple as charging based on ZIP code.

This happened to me recently when McMaster charged me $5.35 or something for sales tax. I have no idea how they came up with that number. And besides that, in theory, McMaster is going to send a check to...the state of Texas, or what? And then the State is going to mail a check to my City?

Calculating appropriate taxes to charge may be simple for a giant like Amazon. They probably just need to dedicate one of their cloud servers to the massive, constantly-changing database of tax rates based on address. But what is Mom and Pop internet business supposed to do? How can they charge sales tax to residents of other states, and how do they remit payment back to that person's state? It seems impossible.

Add to that...

I can change my address on Amazon to "Oregon" at any time I want.

And then drop ship to my "winter home" in AZ on demand.

Heck, I can create a new account on Amazon, using a totally different email address than before.  Amazon won't check that the account home address is legit.  My billing credit card might when charged and a drop-ship happens with a different delivery address, but if I get a prepaid, it won't matter.

This doesn't work without a "realID" on the innernetz.