World War Z trailer

[BryanP]

So the first trailer for World War Z is out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcwTxRuq-uk

The problem I have is the title. What I'm seeing looks like it might be a halfway decent movie as popcorn munchin action/horror flicks go, but it bears little or no resemblance to the book, and I really like the book.

[erictank]

So the first trailer for World War Z is out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcwTxRuq-uk

The problem I have is the title. What I'm seeing looks like it might be a halfway decent movie as popcorn munchin action/horror flicks go, but it bears little or no resemblance to the book, and I really like the book.

io9.com had a page where they talked about it, and a lot of the comments were something to the effect of, "If this were just a high-budget, popcorn-grade zombie movie with a big-name star, I'd have no problem with this. Just call it something other than WWZ."  That and the fact that WWZ zombies were *NOT* fast zombies - the fast zombies don't move like zombies, they move like people.

[BryanP]

That's pretty much my take on it. I may see it, but I'll have to completely divorce it from the book.

[Jamisjockey]

The trailer looks entertaining in it's own right.  I'll have to dl the book(s) and see how that is.

[BryanP]

The trailer looks entertaining in it's own right.  I'll have to dl the book(s) and see how that is.

I'm not denying the trailer looks like the movie will be fun. It just doesn't work for the book it's supposedly based on.  World War Z is a really interesting book, made up of short stories telling different aspects of the Zombie Apocalypse, from the origins to the end from all sorts of viewpoints.  Originally I'd heard they were going to make Pitt a character gathering all of these stories in interviews, tying the whole thing together.  Doesn't look like that's what they ended up doing.

[birdman]

The continuous wave of zeds climbing/flowing jet looks terrifyingly awesome.

However, seems like a threat the Mk19 was made for :)

[lupinus]

Defiantly not the book, looks interesting though.

Though I would have loved to see the book fleshed out. Done well it could have been one of the creepiest movies made.

[Jamisjockey]

The continuous wave of zeds climbing/flowing jet looks terrifyingly awesome.

However, seems like a threat the Mk19 was made for :)

Just sprouted erection. Stop it.

[lupinus]

I seem to recall the Mk19 being...less then effective.

[birdman]

I seem to recall the Mk19 being...less then effective.

Against what?  A human zed wave attack at 400-800m?  Seems ideal to me :)

[erictank]

Against what?  A human zed wave attack at 400-800m?  Seems ideal to me :)

Zombies are going to be spectacularly unconcerned with shrapnel which would be quickly-disabling or -lethal to a living human. you could blow their legs off, or a hole through their torso, and they'll KEEP COMING. They won't be frightened by a grenade attack like a human assault wave would be, either. Oh, sure, the odd bit of shrapnel transiting a zombie skull will put them down - how many of those will you see per grenade? All the others in the blast and frag radii will keep right on coming, whether at reduced or full speed.

If you've got ENOUGH Mk 19s, then sure. I think you'd need a lot of them, though.

[lupinus]

And even less effective once all the cars finish going explody with the first wave.

[birdman]

Zombies are going to be spectacularly unconcerned with shrapnel which would be quickly-disabling or -lethal to a living human. you could blow their legs off, or a hole through their torso, and they'll KEEP COMING. They won't be frightened by a grenade attack like a human assault wave would be, either. Oh, sure, the odd bit of shrapnel transiting a zombie skull will put them down - how many of those will you see per grenade? All the others in the blast and frag radii will keep right on coming, whether at reduced or full speed.

If you've got ENOUGH Mk 19s, then sure. I think you'd need a lot of them, though.

M430 grenade is designed to put 20-30 fragments/m2 at a range of 3m from point of detonation.  Given a brain cross section independent of angle of approximately 0.02m2, that means a 2m radius is sufficient to ensure at least one and likely 2 fragments will transit a zed brain (since they aren't wearing helmets), and 1m would mean 5-10 fragments, basically ensuring lower brain damage.

So each grenade will reliably take out all Zeds in a 1m radius.  At 300rpm cyclic rate, that's a clearance of 10m of frontage per second of kills.  The additional fragments not transiting brains can disrupt bones and muscle, slowing zeds over likely a 2m radius.  This means a single mk19 can continuously keep at least a 10m frontage clear of continuous zed flow, effectively regardless of zed density.

Against zeds with an average z to z spacing of 1m, this is 20+ zed/second/mk19, or 1200 z/min (likely half that for sustained fire).   

To achieve the same kill rate would require an M2 to be fired SUSTAINED at its max cyclic rate AND achieve 100% head hits.

Basically, against human wave attacks, it's a matter of efficiency given aiming requirements, firing rate, and area of effect, in this case, the mk19 is extremely effective, without even accounting for limb disruption and associated slowing of the wave.  In terms of mass efficiency it is also effective, as it's an average of one pound of ordnance per zed even if they are dispursed at 1m crowd spacing.  Compared to a 50cal, to be as efficient would require 3-4 rounds max per zed, or 30-50 for smaller calibers.  Given that trying to achieve 20 zed/second kill rates with other weapons woud require more than the sustained firing rates of any other crew served weapon, the mk19 is mathematically the optimum weapon for his type of defense, in both zed kill rate and ammo mass efficiency.

[seeker_two]

Plus, you can use all sorts of incendiary rounds...frying a brain is as effective as shrapnel....

[Jamisjockey]

Are the zeds in world war z only stoppable with headshots, too?

[lupinus]

Yes, headshots only.

[birdman]

Plus, you can use all sorts of incendiary rounds...frying a brain is as effective as shrapnel....

Takes too long, even with Willie peet

[Jamisjockey]

MK19 full of grapeshot?

I'll be in my bunk.

[birdman]

MK19 full of grapeshot?

I'll be in my bunk.

The problem with grapeshot is the muzzle velocity of the mk19 is quite low, which gives it poor ballistic performance.  With further thinking, the ideal weapon for zombies would be a 30mm M230 (apache chain gun) mounted on a truck turret ring, firing canister rounds.  At 240-300rpm, sustained, each round would contain 135 00-buck projectiles, meaning comparable coverage at 100-200m as the mk19, but far higher probability of kill due to the greater mass...firing flechettes, it would be even better, while retaining the minimal aiming requirements.  Too bad they don't make a 30mm anti-zed canister round.

Oh, in terms of knock-down power, the average running zed would be hit in the body with 30-40 pellets, or about 3-4oz of lead at 1500+fps, given a zed weight of 150lbs, this is an immediate knock back of 2-3fps, more than enough to knock them down even at a run (it's like getting hit with a 16lb bowling ball at 20mph).

So, there is your ultimate crew served weapon, easily capable of sweeping a 45deg sector continuously against even high density wave zed attacks.
Given ammo capacity, 4 HMMWV's with trailers and a good crew would be able to annihilate 15-30,000 zombies over the course of about 5-10 minutes, and be able to do so on the move,

[birdman]

Actually, look at an apache.

Hydra-70 rockets with M255 warheads (each contains 2500 flechettes) can sweep an area with guaranteed multiple brain hits of about 20 square meters, containing 10-20 zeds.

A full load is 76 rockets and 1200 cannon rounds, a total zed kill (firing on a wave or milling crowd) of nearly 3000-4000 zeds (target small groups with the cannon, large with rockets), and do so assuming 5-10 seconds per aim/fire sequence (go helmet mounted sight) of 3-4 zeds/second.

The army can easily maintain continuous sorties (say one per 2-4 hours per airframe, on average half of the airframes) of 100-150 sorties per hour, or a peak of 300-400 in the air at once.

This gives an average zed kill rate of 300-600,000 zeds per hour, or a peak of nearly a million in an hour.

This means even a NYC size population of zeds could be annihilated by the army with effectively zero casualties in less than a day or so. 

So WW-Z would really be short lived...as wave attacks would be annihilated easily, and small groups or indivuals could be dealt with using conventional small arms.

So the strategy would be find a big open space (ideally, a few km across) near the infected area to put your fire base, man it's perimeter with crew served weapons and snipers, and use rotary wing aircraft to deal with the big crowds. 

[HankB]

. . .  This means even a NYC size population of zeds could be annihilated by the army with effectively zero casualties in less than a day or so. 

So WW-Z would really be short lived...as wave attacks would be annihilated easily, and small groups or indivuals could be dealt with using conventional small arms.

Assuming military and political leadership better than what was seen in the first part of the book . . .

[erictank]

Takes too long, even with Willie peet

Plus that whole "mobile torch" thing... 

[erictank]

Assuming military and political leadership better than what was seen in the first part of the book . . .

This.  Have you read the book yet, Birdman? If not, I *HEARTILY* recommend it. In fact, there's a scene in the book similar to what you refer to, in which the conventional massed artillery proves to be spectacularly useless against a huge wave of zombies, and .mil aimed and suppressive fire training  shows its weaknesses against foes which cannot fear and require headshots to drop. That part of the book was narrated, in the audiobook version, by Mark Hamill, who did an excellent job.

[lupinus]

This.  Have you read the book yet, Birdman? If not, I *HEARTILY* recommend it. In fact, there's a scene in the book similar to what you refer to, in which the conventional massed artillery proves to be spectacularly useless against a huge wave of zombies, and .mil aimed and suppressive fire training  shows its weaknesses against foes which cannot fear and require headshots to drop. That part of the book was narrated, in the audiobook version, by Mark Hamill, who did an excellent job.

This, and the reasons for it not working were believable. Particularly the .gov idiocy.

[birdman]

This.  Have you read the book yet, Birdman? If not, I *HEARTILY* recommend it. In fact, there's a scene in the book similar to what you refer to, in which the conventional massed artillery proves to be spectacularly useless against a huge wave of zombies, and .mil aimed and suppressive fire training  shows its weaknesses against foes which cannot fear and require headshots to drop. That part of the book was narrated, in the audiobook version, by Mark Hamill, who did an excellent job.

Yes I have.  I'm referring to fundamentally different weapon systems, ammunition, and tactics than used in the book.   Basically, HE sucks, shotguns rule, and the more sufficiently aimed skull penetrating projectiles you can throw down range in a given amount of time the better.