Author Topic: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!  (Read 94391 times)

cordex

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2014, 12:30:18 AM »
Had a thought - part of the problem with HIV transmission is that homosexual men tend towards a lot of partners.  Wouldn't encouraging/enabling them to get married, with the implied fidelity, reduce the spread?
People will do what is important to them.  Gay people who want to be in an exclusive relationship already are, and given the option to marry those are the ones who will take advantage of it.  They certainly don't need a permission slip from the government in order to maintain a committed monogamous or monoandrous relationship if that is what they choose.  If they don't want that, why would your encouragement to get married sway them?

Ron

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2014, 07:45:10 AM »
Have the "marriage" rates of homosexuals ever broken out of the single digits in any state or country where it has been granted the governments blessing?
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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2014, 10:29:49 AM »
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1182339-temporary-platform-committee-report.html

Leaked copy of the draft. Some highly praise worthy, some meh and some "That's a really bad idea".

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2014, 11:04:03 AM »

Some surprises, but I suspect mean other than what they say.

1-96 would protect say, Satanic statutes, which is very open minded of the Texas GOP.  >:D
2-7 is the "We dislike gays" part. Still concerned that they're attempting to reopen known abusive and/or dangerous programs.
2-8 is kinda funny. Apparently, porno is not demeaning to grown men.
2-10 conflicts with the death penalty.
3-6 endorses evolution and opposes creationism in the classroom.
3-18 kinda shows how much folks really dislike common core. Basically, "lose all state funding if you so much as buy a CC textbook!"
3-24 makes me wonder if they'd be kosher with say a Koran or any of Anton LaVey's books in public schools.
4-28 went full retard.
5-58 is ... interesting. I did not know there was a movement to repeal Worker's Comp?


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KD5NRH

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2014, 05:18:07 PM »
5-58 is ... interesting. I did not know there was a movement to repeal Worker's Comp?

Not sure of their specific issue, but there has been a lot of discussion of WC being dangerously close to a "burn it, bury the ashes, salt the earth and start over from scratch" situation.  All the extensions available (without medical need) and the wide open job hunting requirements (go into an office building in a mankini, ask each tenant in obscene terms if they're hiring, and write it down as a month's worth of contacts) have made it a heavily abused form of not-particularly-need-based welfare.

MillCreek

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2014, 05:26:51 PM »
^^^ From what I read in the risk management and insurance literature, a lot of businesses, due to high workers' comp costs, advocate for the reform of the system.  In many states, especially for the injured low-skilled or low-educated worker, it has turned into a quasi-long term disability system.   One of the ways to manage your WC costs is to get such workers on the Social Security disability system as soon as possible and get them off your books.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2014, 05:39:17 PM »
From what I read in the risk management and insurance literature, a lot of businesses, due to high workers' comp costs, advocate for the reform of the system.  In many states, especially for the injured low-skilled or low-educated worker, it has turned into a quasi-long term disability system.

It's not even so much disability as "the management jobs I feel are worthy of me discriminate against people with obscene facial tattoos" in too many cases.

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2014, 08:49:45 AM »
Not sure of their specific issue, but there has been a lot of discussion of WC being dangerously close to a "burn it, bury the ashes, salt the earth and start over from scratch" situation.  All the extensions available (without medical need) and the wide open job hunting requirements (go into an office building in a mankini, ask each tenant in obscene terms if they're hiring, and write it down as a month's worth of contacts) have made it a heavily abused form of not-particularly-need-based welfare.
^^^ From what I read in the risk management and insurance literature, a lot of businesses, due to high workers' comp costs, advocate for the reform of the system.  In many states, especially for the injured low-skilled or low-educated worker, it has turned into a quasi-long term disability system.   One of the ways to manage your WC costs is to get such workers on the Social Security disability system as soon as possible and get them off your books.

From what, people faking injury? Or are we talking about people legitimately injured on the job that private employers want to dump on public taxpayers? Both, if so, what ratio are we talking?
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KD5NRH

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2014, 09:54:32 AM »
From what, people faking injury?

IME, people exaggerating injury, and getting doctors to go along with them.  People with no job skills getting a minor-to-moderate injury that should put them out of manual labor for 1-6 months, and milking it for years, (usually while working elsewhere for cash under the table) or developing all sorts of mysterious symptoms in office jobs that leave them unable to do any sort of work at all so they can milk the system for as long as it holds out.

MillCreek

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2014, 09:59:54 AM »
^^^ I want to emphasize that I have never worked in the WC field from the legal or healthcare perspectives, and all I know about it is what I read in the professional literature.  From my reading, there seem to be some states in which the WC system is seen as too generous to workers and too onerous to employers.  Examples cited include employees who are awarded long-term time loss when the employer thinks they can come back to work, employers who unsuccessfully contest injury claims, and the overall rates employers pay for WC coverage.

I have seen advertisements for companies who will manage an employer's WC cases.  One of those management techniques is to have the injured worker apply for SS disability, which gets them off the WC plan and employer cost and onto the Federal plan.  I have not the faintest idea what the ratio of that is, however.  I have read articles about how when a low-educated/low-skilled worker who does manual or semi-skilled labor is injured on the job, the chances of that worker returning to gainful employment can be pretty low, depending on where they are located and the overall economy.  

I know that when I worked in the multi-state healthcare system, they managed their own WC cases, and the number one method they used to control costs was as soon as the employee was medically able, to get them back into work doing something, even if it was sitting at a desk shuffling papers or counting sheets in Central Linen.  You want to keep them engaged in the workforce so they don't get used to just sitting at home collecting a check.

Although it was not a WC case, I remember that when I crashed my bicycle back in 1997 and fractured my hip, I could not wait to get back to work.  I was going crazy sitting at home.  This was before the concept of remote access via computers and working from home.  I kept pestering my orthopedist until he let me go back at seven weeks postop.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2014, 06:36:27 PM »
You guys are forgetting the sort of WC scam in which the injury/illness was not work-related.

On the other side of the spectrum, a lady I know had her jaw broken (and not by accident) by one of her in-home-healthcare clients. As far as I know, it is still not being treated as a WC case.
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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2014, 06:59:28 PM »
I've actually been through this: illness from chemical exposure at a company that refused to provided new facemask filters at often enough intervals (which I didn't know until later).

The policy of WC is apparently just to deny all claims and hope you go away.  So I did ... sought other help and went to college to start over in life.  Apparently, you're not really supposed to do that - just supposed to sit on your butt the rest of your life.  ;/

After about 7 or 8 years of avoiding almost everything in the way of airborne contaminants, I actually started to get better.  I sure as hell never wanted to be sick.   =(
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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #63 on: June 14, 2014, 04:12:49 AM »
1-96 would protect say, Satanic statutes, which is very open minded of the Texas GOP.  >:D
2-7 is the "We dislike gays" part. Still concerned that they're attempting to reopen known abusive and/or dangerous programs.
2-8 is kinda funny. Apparently, porno is not demeaning to grown men.
2-10 conflicts with the death penalty.
3-6 endorses evolution and opposes creationism in the classroom.
3-18 kinda shows how much folks really dislike common core. Basically, "lose all state funding if you so much as buy a CC textbook!"
3-24 makes me wonder if they'd be kosher with say a Koran or any of Anton LaVey's books in public schools.
4-28 went full retard.
5-58 is ... interesting. I did not know there was a movement to repeal Worker's Comp?

Took me ages to get to the document to know what you were talking about.

My summary of the positions, especially the ones you commented on, seems to be that they have a much different view of reality than I do.

I mean, take 4-28.  There are plenty of studies that show that unmarried teen pregnancy rates are consistently worse in areas where they tech abstinence only sex ed.  Spreading ignorance doesn't help anybody.  'faith based rehab' seems to me to point to Alcoholics Anonymous type organizations, and it's my understanding that the success rates for such programs tend to be lower than other treatment programs.  There's no evidence that Porn is any more addicting than things like 'world of warcraft'.  If it consumes your life it's bad, otherwise who cares?  Clean needle programs prevent the spread of disease and such, actually saving huge reams of money in the long run.

I'm not very 'liberal'.  What I am is a fiscal hawk that demands evidence.  As such, I'm in support of 5-1(balanced budget, regular reviews, sunsets).  We're in a deep enough fiscal hole that we can't afford to embark on religiously motivated campaigns, stand on principles that cost money while making people miserable, etc...  Is it really a good principle if the result is us spending MORE money in order to spread misery?

I mean, I've heard about some recent housing programs - the idea is to get the homeless into housing.  The trick?  We don't demand anything from them beforehand.  Shock, Horror, we don't demand that they be sober/dry first.  We worry about that AFTER we get them off the street.  What do we find?  A formerly homeless person is a lot more willing to talk/deal with their addiction/drug problem when they have a steady roof over their head than when they're stuck with cardboard.  I've seen the figures - homeless people cost the government(between city, state, and federal) something like $250k/year, EACH.  Time to find a new way, I think?

However, I see plenty in there that would end up costing more money.  It's a sad fact that killing easy access to birth control actually leads to MORE abortions and children in the system.  I think we want to avoid that, right?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2014, 04:21:27 AM by Firethorn »

Strings

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2014, 06:03:55 PM »
>Propensity of those who practice male homosexuality to also practice pedophilia, going by measurable actions, is roughly 8x-9x relative to those who practice heterosexuality.<

Bullscat. Pure, unadulterated bullscat.

Pedophiles tend to appear more heterosexual to the outside world than homosexual. Like rape, pedophilia is more about the power over their victim, than the sex. And young boys are FAR less likely to report being touched by a man than young girls
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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2014, 08:27:38 PM »
>Propensity of those who practice male homosexuality to also practice pedophilia, going by measurable actions, is roughly 8x-9x relative to those who practice heterosexuality.<

(1) Bullscat. Pure, unadulterated bullscat.

(2) Pedophiles tend to appear more heterosexual to the outside world than homosexual. (3) Like rape, pedophilia is more about the power over their victim, than the sex. (4)And young boys are FAR less likely to report being touched by a man than young girls

Sorry Strings, but your post is fit to burst with failure in every sentence.  And your last sentence buttresses my point.

(1) Not bullscat, just numeracy WRT measurable actions.  I've run the numbers before if you want to search for them.  ~8-9X, depending on which year's FBI crime stats and proportion of the population is homosexual you use.  Based on reported/convicted crime stats.  IOW, folks' actions.  Life has a math component, even if one is unable or unwilling to cypher.

(2) See, here is one of the most serious problems with your post.  You count appearances and what people say as more authoritative than what people do.  This is the thing: People lie. They also hide their preferences and actions from others for fear of being caught outside the herd.  People are so willing to lie and fear being caught, they will lie on anonymous surveys.  Marketing folk and economists have been driven nuts by this for years.  For instance: "WTH can we not sell the brown cars?  The surveys say brown is the Xth favorite color, we build cars in proportion to what folks say they like, yet we always end up with extra brown cars on the lot we have to discount to move,"  or some such.  Then, some bright guy figured, "Why don't we stop the surveys and just record peoples real-life choices?"  The preference that folk choose when they think no one is watching is what economists call revealed preference.  When hypothetical Coach Macho D. Masculine, who married a cheerleader out of college, is caught buggering one of the boys on his team, his revealed preference is homosexual pedophilia.

(3) The banality is strong in this one.  Does it matter if it is power or sexual desire?  I don't think it matters much to the raped child.  Besides, discounting sex as a drive is to discount one of the most powerful human drives.  People like to get off.  People generally seek to experience pleasure and avoid pain.  Given that the majority of rapists are not that swift, discounting simple sexual pleasure and assuming a more complex motivation is unwise.

Also oozing of failure is the inability or unwillingness to categorize.  Male/female, child/adult.  These are not mutually exclusive categories.  When an adult male has sex with a boy, it is homosexual pedophilia.  When an adult male has sex with a girl, it is heterosexual pedophilia.  You can work out the rest of the matrix I am sure. 

Homosexuality is not some pure state of being set apart from all the other complex human behaviors.  "It is not POSSIBLE for a homosexual to be a pedophile!  Because: homosexual!"  Yes, our society has degraded to the point where we have replaced the magic negro* with the hallowed homosexual and made made homosexual congress a secular sacrament.  Those still able to reason do not have to go along with the damnfoolery.

(4) Thanks for the backup.  In the ratio measurable [#homosexual pedophiles]/[#heterosexual pedophiles] given their respective population sizes (8/1 or so, recall), an assumption that boys are not reporting and thus fewer homosexual pedophiles are caught would make the ratio larger.  Again, thanks for the support.

To sum up, your post relies on faith-based propositions and logical flights that, when examined, can not withstand the light of data or logic. 

Really, what would you use as a metric other than chomos caught & convicted?  It is about the strongest data to be found.  What do you want to use?  Surveys?  Dartboards?  Chicken entrails?  Marxist-Feminist critique?  Or would you prefer we not worry our little heads about it and make even the discussion of it  forbidden for fear we might learn something and allow data and logic to have an effect on our actions & attitudes? 





* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro
Quote
The Magical Negro is a supporting stock character in American cinema who is portrayed as coming to the aid of a film's white protagonists.[1] These characters, who often possess special insight or mystical powers, have been a long tradition in American fiction.[2]
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MillCreek

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2014, 09:30:40 PM »
In regards to Firethorn's point above regarding the homeless, 60 minutes ran this segment tonight: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/housing-homeless-can-save-money/

Some interesting ideas.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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charby

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2014, 10:25:27 PM »
Sorry Strings, but your post is fit to burst with failure in every sentence.  And your last sentence buttresses my point.

(1) Not bullscat, just numeracy WRT measurable actions.  I've run the numbers before if you want to search for them.  ~8-9X, depending on which year's FBI crime stats and proportion of the population is homosexual you use.  Based on reported/convicted crime stats.  IOW, folks' actions.  Life has a math component, even if one is unable or unwilling to cypher.

(2) See, here is one of the most serious problems with your post.  You count appearances and what people say as more authoritative than what people do.  This is the thing: People lie. They also hide their preferences and actions from others for fear of being caught outside the herd.  People are so willing to lie and fear being caught, they will lie on anonymous surveys.  Marketing folk and economists have been driven nuts by this for years.  For instance: "WTH can we not sell the brown cars?  The surveys say brown is the Xth favorite color, we build cars in proportion to what folks say they like, yet we always end up with extra brown cars on the lot we have to discount to move,"  or some such.  Then, some bright guy figured, "Why don't we stop the surveys and just record peoples real-life choices?"  The preference that folk choose when they think no one is watching is what economists call revealed preference.  When hypothetical Coach Macho D. Masculine, who married a cheerleader out of college, is caught buggering one of the boys on his team, his revealed preference is homosexual pedophilia.

(3) The banality is strong in this one.  Does it matter if it is power or sexual desire?  I don't think it matters much to the raped child.  Besides, discounting sex as a drive is to discount one of the most powerful human drives.  People like to get off.  People generally seek to experience pleasure and avoid pain.  Given that the majority of rapists are not that swift, discounting simple sexual pleasure and assuming a more complex motivation is unwise.

Also oozing of failure is the inability or unwillingness to categorize.  Male/female, child/adult.  These are not mutually exclusive categories.  When an adult male has sex with a boy, it is homosexual pedophilia.  When an adult male has sex with a girl, it is heterosexual pedophilia.  You can work out the rest of the matrix I am sure. 

Homosexuality is not some pure state of being set apart from all the other complex human behaviors.  "It is not POSSIBLE for a homosexual to be a pedophile!  Because: homosexual!"  Yes, our society has degraded to the point where we have replaced the magic negro* with the hallowed homosexual and made made homosexual congress a secular sacrament.  Those still able to reason do not have to go along with the damnfoolery.

(4) Thanks for the backup.  In the ratio measurable [#homosexual pedophiles]/[#heterosexual pedophiles] given their respective population sizes (8/1 or so, recall), an assumption that boys are not reporting and thus fewer homosexual pedophiles are caught would make the ratio larger.  Again, thanks for the support.

To sum up, your post relies on faith-based propositions and logical flights that, when examined, can not withstand the light of data or logic. 

Really, what would you use as a metric other than chomos caught & convicted?  It is about the strongest data to be found.  What do you want to use?  Surveys?  Dartboards?  Chicken entrails?  Marxist-Feminist critique?  Or would you prefer we not worry our little heads about it and make even the discussion of it  forbidden for fear we might learn something and allow data and logic to have an effect on our actions & attitudes? 





* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro

Its possible to heterosexual and a pedophile also.

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cordex

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2014, 11:22:33 PM »
Its possible to heterosexual and a pedophile also.
I agree, but the prevailing psychological theory says otherwise.

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #69 on: June 16, 2014, 08:09:22 AM »
I agree, but the prevailing psychological theory says otherwise.

Hmmm, no.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/faculty_sites/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

Quote
Most molesters of boys do not report sexual interest in adult men, however" (National Research Council, 1993, p. 143, citation omitted).

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cordex

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #70 on: June 16, 2014, 08:42:20 AM »
Hmmm, no.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/faculty_sites/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
Read the whole article you posted.
Quote
The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes.
Thus, prevailing psychological theory separates the gender of the child from the sexual orientation of the abuser.  In other words, the idea is that most times the abuser is neither homosexual nor as you claimed heterosexual.

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #71 on: June 16, 2014, 09:05:34 AM »
Read the whole article you posted.Thus, prevailing psychological theory separates the gender of the child from the sexual orientation of the abuser.  In other words, the idea is that most times the abuser is neither homosexual nor as you claimed heterosexual.

Many doesn't mean all.
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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #72 on: June 16, 2014, 12:44:39 PM »
I just typed up a long post, and decided to delete

As others have just shown, your "homos molest kids" is a fallacy. Don't think I need to say anymore
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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #73 on: June 16, 2014, 01:03:12 PM »

charby

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Re: Texas GOP party platform: You can pray the gay away!
« Reply #74 on: June 16, 2014, 01:20:47 PM »
And?

Means some don't identify with attraction to adults, some are homosexual, some are heterosexual and some are other.

Doesn't mean all of them are in one group.

 
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