How accurate is cell phone "pinging"

[zahc]

I got a confrontational visit from the local police this evening. They were convinced I stole some iphone. Apparently it was stolen somewhere next county over and it was "pinging" at my address. I asked how accurate that was and if it could just as likely be my neighbors (I live in a subdivision of sub-1/4 acre lots). He told me that they could tell it was inside my house, but when they called it it went to voicemail. That seems pretty far-fetched to me.

Anyway, I told him we hadn't gone anywhere all afternoon and I hope they find it. He wanted very much to get in my house, starting with "can we step inside to talk? " (I would rather talk outside thanks). I made it clear that I would cooperate if he had a warrant. He said I was not cooperating and even radioed back that "the suspect is being very noncooperative". They also ran my license. He said if they got a warrant they would come with a SWAT team. It was interesting.

Now I can't stop wondering which of my neighbors are thieves, or if someone chucked the phone down my storm drain when they couldn't unlock it. I haven't been in town long enough to make enemies but I have only been in the house a month.

[wmenorr67]

Not accurate enough to hit to the exact house.

[GigaBuist]

My phone showed my location as somewhere about 230 miles from where I was at the time.  Wrong state.  I haven't been to that particular city in probably, well, ever.  

I frequently get GPS coordinates when at home that peg me right at a neighbor's house 3-4 miles away.

What I'm getting at is they're really bad sometimes.  Lemme grab some screen caps.



Nope, did not hit Ohio today.

Locally:



Points between home and work are legit.  Everything else?  Miles off.

Edited to add:  I didn't just pick a bad day as an example.  That was just today and it is a typical result.

My wife's iPhone and iPad used to put her in Moscow all the time.  It was so bad I had to turn off automatic time changes on the iPad until I found a way around it changing timezones.

[RocketMan]

That really sucks big green ones, being falsely accused by the popo.  Good luck with it.
Nice of them to tell you they're coming with a SWAT team over a stupid cell phone.  That says a lot about that stupid department.
Probably ought to get wives, significant others, kids, puppies, kittens and goldfish out of the house for awhile until it blows over.  Or gets blown up.

[zahc]

I honestly think the SWAT team thing was an empty threat to try to intimidate me into giving up the phone he was sure I had. Remember, they are allowed to lie to you.

Which is real nice when you think about it...Essentially threaten to shoot you because you won't let them in.

So there are apparently phone apps that can locate a phone using GPS more precisely, but the phone supposedly went straight to voicemail when they called it. The only time that happens ime is when the battery is dead or it's in airplane mode. If either of those were true, how could they "ping" it? It all smells.

[vaskidmark]

I'll bet you are really starting to regret whatever it was you did to the HOA president.

If you are willing to also PO the cops, file an internal affairs complaint about the threat to SWAT you.

Check you homeowner's policy to see if it covers damage to property and belongings caused by th po-po "searching" your place.  I've never read a warrant that said they have to be neat and when they are not neat there is often a tendency for breakables (and stuff you would not normally think of as "breakables") to become broken.

Sent from my smartphone which is currently located in Hagerstown MD, which must be the other end of the wormhole that begins on my beside table.

stay safe.

[cordex]

There are varying levels of "ping". A cell tower ping is nowhere near that accurate. If the owner was using the "Find My iPhone" app or similar then it can drop a dot on a map, although as others have pointed out the accuracy can be suspect. My wife's phone was stolen once. Whoever took it kept it off or in airplane mode for a long time but then plugged it in or turned it on and we got a map, but it showed an apartment complex - not much we could do with that.

[zahc]

Of course I was obligated to call the police departments involved to find out more. It appears that what we have here is a case of "dick cop". The individual representative of Durham's Finest that I interacted with was laying on the intimidation tactics way too hard. There doesn't seem to be much malfeasance further up the chain. I complained to the local shift supervisor about the swat comment and he apologized and said he would talk to the officer.

 I don't think I will file any formal complaint, because it's strategic to stay on the local PD's good side. If I were more principled, I would sue them for intimidation, making lethal threats, emotional duress, and keeping me up all night when I am already sick. However, I have no proof of any statements that were made, because I was not recording the encounter, which is a lesson itself. I would love to have an audio recording of my interaction including the "suspect is being noncooperative" statement over the radio. I don't have a voice recorder but I was thinking I could have started my phone videoing and stuck it in my pocket to get audio.

The other lesson is simply don't open the door for police. If I had been traveling, the cops would have knocked on my door, and left. The reason I opened the door is that there were a bunch of car break-ins in my neighborhood and I thought they were either going to tell me my car was broken into. The naivete is in assuming that the police are here to help.

Also, they asked for my ID. I gave it to them,  but I assume I could have refused. Can cops require your ID when you are on your own property?

I gather that the neighboring county department, where the alleged theft allegedly occurred, was going by the "find my iPhone" app, which they said is typically accurate. However, they said that the location had moved and as of 2 hours after my visit, it was now a block to the north from me.

[lupinus]

Which means when they ran the app whoever it was was probably roughly driving by your house or some such.

I'd go with your gut on this since you got a favorable response when you followed up with his supervisor. Sometimes it's better to not push it and earn negative brownie points.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

We had a local case where a cop went hunting for a friend's kids I phone . Off the clock. I think his radio call is recorded and you can get it

[Tallpine]

It appears that what we have here is a case of "dick cop".

Seems to be a lot of that going around.  That 2% of bad cops sure are busy.   

I complained to the local shift supervisor about the swat comment and he apologized and said he would talk to the officer.

[roo_ster]

These days, I think it imperative that one record all interactions with LEOs.

[Tallpine]

The most amazing thing about this incident is that police would even try to recover stolen property 

What profit is there in that   


Upon reflection, I don't think there was any missing phone at all     

[brimic]

Also, they asked for my ID. I gave it to them,  but I assume I could have refused. Can cops require your ID when you are on your own property?

In communist russsia maybe.
Extending your middle finger would be the only I.D. you'd need to give in this situation.

He said if they got a warrant they would come with a SWAT team.

LOLOL. The stupid is strong in that one.You should have told him you would call all of the local news stations to bring camera crews in to watch them bust down your door over an erroneous suspicion.  Oh, and contacting the local ACLU and having a lawyer standing by would be really amusing as well.

[brimic]

The most amazing thing about this incident is that police would even try to recover stolen property 

A coworker of mine had his junker car stolen- a car he paid $150 for.
The police called him 2 days later and told him that they recovered his vehicle, and he owes them $300 in towing and impound fees. So yes, stolen property recovery does happen.

[Ben]

Man, that is a sucky situation. On the one hand, I would want an effort made to recover my stolen phone, but on the other, I would be pretty scared/pissed if I was an innocent person accused and threatened in this way. I would feel the same way even if they came back with a valid warrant and searched my house. I look around right now, and I have a few loaded guns out (as always when I'm home), lots of shooting paraphernalia visible, and a couple of pounds of black powder sitting out. These days, what's to keep them from, even if they can't take them on a phone warrant, coming back later with another warrant because they decide I'm one of those middle-aged white male militia guys because I was at the range last week and didn't put all my stuff away yet (at least if I got an officer with the same attitude as this one)?

I'm thinking Lupinus nailed it with the "driving by when they pinged the phone" thing. I use "Where's My Droid" but haven't activated it on the new phone yet. I'm going to do it today and play with location accuracy. I'm curious as to the accuracy of the "E911" or whatever it's called where your phone can be traced by emergency services even if you have location services turned off. I'm thinking it's not that accurate, possibly depending on location. A few years ago, a drunk guy crashed his ATV on the farm and I called 911 for paramedics. That part of the farm doesn't have an "address" per se, so I asked the 911 operator if she could just get the location off my phone. She said she couldn't (and I was busy rendering first aid so I couldn't bring up a GPS app or anything) and I had to giver her verbal directions to the closest dirt road that would lead the paramedics to me.

[Tallpine]

Around here, 911 from a cell phone usually goes to the wrong county dispatch, sometimes hundreds of miles away.

[Boomhauer]

I'm curious as to the accuracy of the "E911" or whatever it's called where your phone can be traced by emergency services even if you have location services turned off.

Without GPS all it can do is ping off the towers and you can try to triangulate if you have enough towers around but it's a real crapshoot. We didn't have much luck with cell phone location methods when I was doing SAR.

Around here, 911 from a cell phone usually goes to the wrong county dispatch, sometimes hundreds of miles away.

Cell carrier 911 interaction and implementation has been very poor.

Which is why it is extremely important to know where you are at all times vs. trying to figure it out when it's time to call 911. I leave my GPS on fulltime on my phone to give 911 the best chance in an emergency but it's not something I can depend on by any means.

[lee n. field]

Around here, 911 from a cell phone usually goes to the wrong county dispatch, sometimes hundreds of miles away.

out where you live, that's just "next one over".

[wmenorr67]

Just pinged my iPhone and it was correct to within at least half a block.

[roo_ster]

Just pinged my iPhone and it was correct to within at least half a block.

[judge]That's good enough for a warrant.  You want one to search the exact house or all houses in the half block radius?[/judge]

[BobR]

I think his radio call is recorded and you can get it

They are recorded. Do a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the PD for all radio calls or other communication that resulted in the officer showing up at your house and all subsequent traffic regarding the visit. It usually only takes a few days, you may need to talk to someone that has done them in the past to get the correct wording so you can get all of the records. Open Carry guys in WA do FOIA request all the time after a police interaction, as well as record the interaction.

bob

[Tallpine]

out where you live, that's just "next one over".

Oddly enough, during the homestead boom about a hundred years ago it became a big thing to split up counties.  Then all the population left 

Which is why it is extremely important to know where you are at all times vs. trying to figure it out when it's time to call 911.

Most people should just stay inside city limits: "I'm right between Wendy's and Taco Bell"   

[vaskidmark]

Most people should just stay inside city limits: "I'm right between Wendy's and Taco Bell"   

At one time (just shortly after the dinosaurs) it was possible to know precisely where you were by telling someone "I'm at the 7-11 on Main Street."

I've never tested to see just how much offset my GPS's coordinates show, but I figure it ought to be close enough around town for the dark green helicopters to be able to see the IR beacon implanted on the roof of my car.

stay safe.

[AmbulanceDriver]

I've had sub 30 foot accuracy on my phone. I've also had more than a couple miles error....