Author Topic: The wailing  (Read 25966 times)

MillCreek

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2014, 05:26:55 PM »
Would you rather subsidize someone's health insurance or subsidize their entire income (welfare/disability)?


I would have to say that I often see both in my clinics.  As I have mentioned before, Social Security disability has become the new welfare, especially for low-educated, middle-aged blue collar men.
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KD5NRH

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2014, 05:31:55 PM »
Up until recently the age was 24 for dependency, all they did was add two years as a response to the high unemployment of people under 30.

Then forcing them to do something toward employment would be a huge step in the right direction.  As it is, plenty of them are playing video games and maybe taking one class per semester to keep a valid student ID for discounts at the movies.

MechAg94

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2014, 06:03:01 PM »

I think that was when X Files was actually good.
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MechAg94

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #78 on: November 06, 2014, 06:04:45 PM »
I'd prefer to subsidize neither...
My thoughts exactly.

Think how much charity might be available if everyone could keep 35% more of their income.
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charby

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2014, 06:17:10 PM »
My thoughts exactly.

Think how much charity might be available if everyone could keep 35% more of their income.

If you paid no taxes, would you donate 35% of your income to charity every year?
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Ben

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #80 on: November 06, 2014, 06:20:02 PM »
If you paid no taxes, would you donate 35% of your income to charity every year?

I don't think that's what he meant. Most people give "X" percentage of their take home to charity. If I'm keeping 35% more of my paycheck, the dollar amount of percent "X" is bigger.
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charby

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #81 on: November 06, 2014, 06:22:37 PM »
I don't think that's what he meant. Most people give "X" percentage of their take home to charity. If I'm keeping 35% more of my paycheck, the dollar amount of percent "X" is bigger.

Ok, what about roads, police, fire, military, etc? What will pay for those?
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charby

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #82 on: November 06, 2014, 06:25:47 PM »
Maybe I should say, are you willing to see starving children on the streets and living infested tenement houses because you don't want to pay taxes?

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Ben

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #83 on: November 06, 2014, 06:27:06 PM »
Who said anything about zero taxes?
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charby

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #84 on: November 06, 2014, 06:28:11 PM »
Who said anything about zero taxes?

Removing 35% of taxes would be zero income taxes for most Americans.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #85 on: November 06, 2014, 06:39:10 PM »
News flash: Income tax is not the only sort of tax.

Maybe I should say, are you willing to see starving children on the streets and living infested tenement houses because you don't want to pay taxes?

So many responses to this softball:

a) If income tax is what keeps children fed, then maybe we should change the way we do things.

b) 'Cause throwing other people's money at the ghetto is working so well!

c) Are you willing to quit emoting, and come back when you are prepared to deal with the subject rationally?
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charby

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #86 on: November 06, 2014, 06:48:17 PM »
News flash: Income tax is not the only sort of tax.

So many responses to this softball:

a) If income tax is what keeps children fed, then maybe we should change the way we do things.

b) 'Cause throwing other people's money at the ghetto is working so well!

c) Are you willing to quit emoting, and come back when you are prepared to deal with the subject rationally?


How do you do things differently? Besides the charity approach because that worked so well in the past.

Emoting? Perhaps I have more compassion than most of you. Perhaps why things are broken is because people can't see the black and white of issues.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #87 on: November 06, 2014, 07:02:30 PM »
Emoting? Perhaps I have more compassion than most of you. Perhaps why things are broken is because people can't see the black and white of issues.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. You're reducing a policy debate to "well, you other guys are just heartless meanies. I wish you could be as kind-hearted as I."
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Perd Hapley

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #88 on: November 06, 2014, 07:07:40 PM »
Quote
How do you do things differently? Besides the charity approach because that worked so well in the past.

1. You start - you start - by gradually, deeply reducing the level and extent of taxation and regulation; so that people can have jobs, instead of starving their kids in rotten tenements, as many of them currently do. This would solve much of the problem.

1a. You start, by refusing to believe that we can have everything we want, and that the world owes us healthcare, etc. We start teaching our children that the things we want must be earned, and that they (and we) ought to forego certain pleasures, because there are consequences. This would solve much of the problem.

2. Then, we roll back the welfare state to the local level. Less money to waste. More accountability. More flexibility. This would solve much of the problem.

2a. We foster a culture that values honest work, and knows no low-status jobs. One where people are ashamed to accept charity, or public assistance; but not ashamed to make widgets or shine shoes. This would solve much of the problem.

3. We repeal victimless crime laws, to reduce the prison population, and allow "criminals" to have jobs (see point 1). This would solve much of the problem.


Those are just a few things we could do differently. On the medical care side, who knows what new plenitude of affordable care we might see, if we unshackled the marketplace?
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Fitz

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #89 on: November 06, 2014, 07:12:50 PM »
Ok, what about roads, police, fire, military, etc? What will pay for those?


Are you aware that these are not paid for by fed income taxes like the fed entitlements we're discussing?
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Fitz

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #90 on: November 06, 2014, 07:14:10 PM »
If you paid no taxes, would you donate 35% of your income to charity every year?

Here's the central point:


THATS NONE OF YOURS (OR ANYONE ELSES) CONCERN.

Taking my money to give it to someone else is theft. Pure and simple. We tolerate it, but that's what it is.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #91 on: November 06, 2014, 07:27:19 PM »

Are you aware that these are not paid for by fed income taxes like the fed entitlements we're discussing?

Perhaps not
http://taxfoundation.org/article/gasoline-taxes-and-user-fees-pay-only-half-state-local-road-spending


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Perd Hapley

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #93 on: November 06, 2014, 07:30:36 PM »
If you paid no taxes, would you donate 35% of your income to charity every year?


Were taxation and regulation at reasonable levels, we could probably donate 5% to charity per year, and meet every need. As a famous Missourian has been known to point out, it's better to have fewer people in need of charity, than to give government freebies to as many people as we can.
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charby

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #94 on: November 06, 2014, 07:31:40 PM »

Are you aware that these are not paid for by fed income taxes like the fed entitlements we're discussing?

They are too.

Police and Fire get federal money all the time from the general fund via federal grants or tied to some bill passed by the legislature.

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MillCreek

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #95 on: November 06, 2014, 07:32:43 PM »
Here's the central point:


THATS NONE OF YOURS (OR ANYONE ELSES) CONCERN.

Taking my money to give it to someone else is theft. Pure and simple. We tolerate it, but that's what it is.

Does that also apply to the portion of my tax burden that goes to the military?
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MillCreek
Snohomish County, WA  USA


Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

charby

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #96 on: November 06, 2014, 07:36:15 PM »
1. You start - you start - by gradually, deeply reducing the level and extent of taxation and regulation; so that people can have jobs, instead of starving their kids in rotten tenements, as many of them currently do. This would solve much of the problem.

1a. You start, by refusing to believe that we can have everything we want, and that the world owes us healthcare, etc. We start teaching our children that the things we want must be earned, and that they (and we) ought to forego certain pleasures, because there are consequences. This would solve much of the problem.

2. Then, we roll back the welfare state to the local level. Less money to waste. More accountability. More flexibility. This would solve much of the problem.

2a. We foster a culture that values honest work, and knows no low-status jobs. One where people are ashamed to accept charity, or public assistance; but not ashamed to make widgets or shine shoes. This would solve much of the problem.

3. We repeal victimless crime laws, to reduce the prison population, and allow "criminals" to have jobs (see point 1). This would solve much of the problem.


Those are just a few things we could do differently. On the medical care side, who knows what new plenitude of affordable care we might see, if we unshackled the marketplace?

Don't disagree there, but how do convince (not force) the business/financial sector to pay higher wages in trade for a reduction in taxes?

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charby

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #97 on: November 06, 2014, 07:42:08 PM »
One beef I do have with my tax dollars is how much administrators are paid on the public sector and how many of them there is.

Such as school superintendents, public college presidents, public college deans, executive branch state employees, .gov managers and directors. Most of them are just glad handing paper pushers.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #98 on: November 06, 2014, 07:43:13 PM »
And schools get federal funding too


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Fitz

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Re: The wailing
« Reply #99 on: November 06, 2014, 07:45:52 PM »
Does that also apply to the portion of my tax burden that goes to the military?

One could argue that maintaining the military is constitutionally mandated, whereas cranking out entitlements is not.
Fitz

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I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

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