Author Topic: An article about bit coin  (Read 4129 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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MicroBalrog

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2015, 07:32:39 AM »
Wow. His lack of getting it is astounding.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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MillCreek

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 08:17:11 AM »
Well, the faithful are certainly in a lather in the comments section.
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Jocassee

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2015, 09:27:26 AM »
Quote
The only solace is that, in the long run, the system should self-correct, as miners drop out and mining gets easier.

LOL. Unlike the US dollar, which will never self-correct as long as the FED is effin wit it.
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brimic

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2015, 10:08:12 AM »
After reading this article, I was reminded of beanie babies. I did a google search and found that I was a long way from the first to make this connection.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2015, 10:12:59 AM »
I was just thinking about bitcoin the other day.  I checked its price and was shocked to see that it hadn't gone to $10,000 an ounce.  I was assured it would. Or was it gold that was supposed to go to $10,000 an ounce.  I don't remember.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2015, 10:21:39 AM »
Real currencies are much more interesting than bitcoin.  Has anyone been watching the Swiss thing today?

AJ Dual

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2015, 12:54:55 PM »
Wow. His lack of getting it is astounding.

IMO he gets it, mostly, his real problem is the same one most everyone else has, the belief that fiat currency issued by state or quasi-state central banks are any more "real" than Bitcoin. The only reality or value it has is acceptance by both creditors and debtors and the issuer. And Bitcoin at least has the same opportunity to garner that acceptance as every other currency before it has had.

Bitcoin does have the problem of adoptibility, acceptance, and volatility, but so does every other fiat currency that's starting out.  And of course, anyone with a computer, smartphone and internet access could use Bitcoin if they wish. And the "fiat" portion is controlled by pure free market economics, and the Bitcoin algorithm, which does represent at least some actual value store in terms of "work" done by the mining computers and the transaction handlers in the peer-to-peer network.

That still doesn't mean Bitcoin won't fail, and could suffer a collapse of trust, or over-exuberance. However, it does expose the fact that 99% of the criticisms of Bitcoin are really just ones of perception. It's like the same kind of fear that CCW and armed self-defense generates in people, because they have an emotional investment, whether they realize it or not, in collective physical security. Just change out "collective physical security" with collective banking/currency security, and it's the same thing.

While concerns over the safety and security of Bitcoin are valid, it's peer-reviewed by the world if it cares to, and I don't see the Fed Reserve opening it's books for audit, even to Congress. Every time there's a hack, or some .gov siezes the latest iteration of the Silk Road, Bitcoin can be improved, holes closed, security tightened. Most of the nay-saying is still akin to the taxi drivers rioting/striking over Uber and Lyft.

The criticisms that speculating on Bitcoin is very risky? Well... duh.
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Ron

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2015, 01:03:06 PM »
I'm not up on BitCoin but it seems to me that if the worlds banking system had a mind to they could devote resources to buying up and dumping bitcoin periodically in order to create boom/bust cycles.

It would insert uncertainty in the system and a lack of trust into the minds of those interested in alternative medium of exchanges.

Think of it as a losing investment that also fatally damages the would be competitor before they can grab market share.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2015, 01:17:07 PM »
They could. They don't need to


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2015, 01:52:09 PM »
IMO he gets it, mostly, his real problem is the same one most everyone else has, the belief that fiat currency issued by state or quasi-state central banks are any more "real" than Bitcoin.
Fiat currencies have force of law behind them, and that's a very real thing.

brimic

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2015, 01:57:55 PM »
Fiat currencies have force of law behind them, and that's a very real thing.
THAT!
A libertarian-ish fiat currency is bound to fail due to N.A.P.
A fiat currency needs an entity willing to intimidate, murder, obliterate, or imprison its competition for it to survive.


"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

AJ Dual

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2015, 05:11:06 PM »
THAT!
A libertarian-ish fiat currency is bound to fail due to N.A.P.
A fiat currency needs an entity willing to intimidate, murder, obliterate, or imprison its competition for it to survive.

I keep offering myself for the position as commandant of the first Libertarian concentration camp/genocide, but so far, I'm having a hard time finding where to send my resume, and nobody's returning my calls.  I was even going to hang a sign that said "Meh. Tun Sie, was Sie wollen." over the gate... =D

But, using the laws of mathematics, game theory, and simple self-interest, it seems at least theoretically possible that a stateless self-backing cryptocurrency could work. And there's something to be said for at least attempting to cut out the capricious ideological vagaries of a government from one's money.

That's obviously still very far from declaring it will work, but it could work, and for those who are using Bitcoin, I don't blame them for trying.
I promise not to duck.

brimic

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2015, 07:17:28 PM »
I keep offering myself for the position as commandant of the first Libertarian concentration camp/genocide, but so far, I'm having a hard time finding where to send my resume, and nobody's returning my calls.  I was even going to hang a sign that said "Meh. Tun Sie, was Sie wollen." over the gate... =D

But, using the laws of mathematics, game theory, and simple self-interest, it seems at least theoretically possible that a stateless self-backing cryptocurrency could work. And there's something to be said for at least attempting to cut out the capricious ideological vagaries of a government from one's money.

That's obviously still very far from declaring it will work, but it could work, and for those who are using Bitcoin, I don't blame them for trying.
In a free market it would work, but that doesn't exist. As long as there is someone out there with the force to impose his will on someone else, a stateless decentralized currency is always a threat to his power.
I do enjoy the subversive nature that bitcoin entails, but the more it allows people to obtain verboten items and services and taxes, the more likely thugs are going to be sent out to overturn the apple cart.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

Brad Johnson

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2015, 10:58:24 PM »
After reading this article, I was reminded of beanie babies. I did a google search and found that I was a long way from the first to make this connection.

Add emus and alpacas to the list.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
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MillCreek

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2015, 11:39:18 PM »
Add emus and alpacas to the list.

Brad

Or if you want to go way back, chinchillas.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

lee n. field

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2015, 08:45:37 AM »
tulip bulbs
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At thy right hand pleasures for evermore.

Ron

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2015, 10:07:08 AM »
tulip bulbs

Vanity of vanities, there is nothing new under the sun.
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

AJ Dual

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2015, 11:09:40 AM »
In a free market it would work, but that doesn't exist. As long as there is someone out there with the force to impose his will on someone else, a stateless decentralized currency is always a threat to his power.
I do enjoy the subversive nature that bitcoin entails, but the more it allows people to obtain verboten items and services and taxes, the more likely thugs are going to be sent out to overturn the apple cart.

The one saving grace is that with it's open source peer-reviewed nature, Bitcoin can and does get upgraded. The community has already responded to things like the Mt. Gox hack. As to the us.gov holding all the BTC from the Silk Road raid, well, that scarcity of reserved BTC in theory is deflationary and raises the value of the other BTC still publicly held, which of course will slowly erode as iterations of the block chain get solved by the miners.

Or Bitcoin will fail, and it'll be the penultimate 1.0 Beta crypto-currency, the MySpace if you will, and something "Facebook quality" will come along next.

Unless they completely shutter the Internet, and/or provide physical custody of every citizen, a crypto-currency run by free market principles, open-source, and peer reviewed will always be ahead of the .gov, at least in terms of the "long-game".
I promise not to duck.

MicroBalrog

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2015, 05:45:46 AM »
Vanity of vanities, there is nothing new under the sun.

The tulip market was rational, and collapsed to a change in Dutch laws that originally made the tulips profitable for arcane legal reasons.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2015, 05:54:51 AM »
The one saving grace is that with it's open source peer-reviewed nature, Bitcoin can and does get upgraded. The community has already responded to things like the Mt. Gox hack. As to the us.gov holding all the BTC from the Silk Road raid, well, that scarcity of reserved BTC in theory is deflationary and raises the value of the other BTC still publicly held, which of course will slowly erode as iterations of the block chain get solved by the miners.

Or Bitcoin will fail, and it'll be the penultimate 1.0 Beta crypto-currency, the MySpace if you will, and something "Facebook quality" will come along next.

Unless they completely shutter the Internet, and/or provide physical custody of every citizen, a crypto-currency run by free market principles, open-source, and peer reviewed will always be ahead of the .gov, at least in terms of the "long-game".

Bing.

1. Anyone who thinks that the success or failure of the idea of cryptocurrency is measured by the value of the bitcoin in greenbacks does not even understand what the debate is all about.

2. Anyone who thinks that the point of a cryptocurrency is to be perfect does not understand what the debate is all about.

3. Anyone who thinks that the point of a cryptocurrency is to be worth a metric crapton of money does not understand what the debate is all about.

The point of a cryptocurrency is:

1. To provide a relatively secure (nothing is perfectly secure), relatively anonymized, medium of international and electronic money transfer. In perfection it should be comparable in security to physical cash. This will of course be easier to lose than bank account money - just like cash, if you lose the cash in your wallet, there is no meaningful way to get it back.

2. To provide a method of currency transfer cheaper than bank wire transfers and Western Union.

3. To provide a currency that is relatively free from political control.

The bitcoin faithful who imagine that the goal of bitcoin is to make them rich beyond measure by constantly increasing its value in greenbacks are idiots.

The naysayers who imagine that the drop off in bitcoin's price disproves cryptocurrencies are either idiots, or deceiving their audience on purpose, by introducing a strawman.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2015, 11:06:20 AM »
The naysayers who imagine that the drop off in bitcoin's price disproves cryptocurrencies are either idiots, or deceiving their audience on purpose, by introducing a strawman.
Heh.  I'll remember this the next time I hear some libertarian currency crank hyperventilating about central banks and inflation.

MicroBalrog

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2015, 12:39:37 PM »
Heh.  I'll remember this the next time I hear some libertarian currency crank hyperventilating about central banks and inflation.

The problem that preventing hyperinflation is one of the purposes of modern central banks, or so we are told by their advocates.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2015, 12:52:43 PM »
Put the central banks in charge of bitcoin.  Problem solved.   :P

Seriously, bitcoin just dropped ~80% in a year.  That's borderline hyperinflation territory.  This isn't a problem for you?

MicroBalrog

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Re: An article about bit coin
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2015, 02:49:25 PM »
Put the central banks in charge of bitcoin.  Problem solved.   :P

Seriously, bitcoin just dropped ~80% in a year.  That's borderline hyperinflation territory.  This isn't a problem for you?

What do you feel that this problem signifies?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner